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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 27, 2013 02:29 PM |
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To sum your logic, you say nothing but Geneva conventions being violated does not matter because "some guy" made them. Every foreign government considering Israel colonization over Gaza being illegal does not matter because there is "some guy" running it. But if some guy in a gaming forum claims it is legal, then it is.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 27, 2013 06:34 PM |
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@mvass
Quote:
Horrible racist parties win again.
How do you figure?
@Sal
I don't think I'll address most of the things you and Seraphim said (unless you there's something specific you want an answer for), because most of it has been said many times before. There is, however, something that caught my attention and I would like an explanation or proof to it. And that is you saying that:
Quote:
Israel does not accept Palestine’s right to exist
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 27, 2013 07:19 PM |
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Quote:
Israel does not accept Palestine’s right to exist
Atleast in practice, you really don't.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 27, 2013 07:38 PM |
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Just because Israel hasn't been actively working towards turning Palestine into a state, doesn't mean that it thinks Palestine has no right to exist. It just means that Israel wants to see some cooperation from the other side.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted January 27, 2013 09:10 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 21:36, 27 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
To sum your logic, you say nothing but Geneva conventions being violated does not matter because "some guy" made them. Every foreign government considering Israel colonization over Gaza being illegal does not matter because there is "some guy" running it. But if some guy in a gaming forum claims it is legal, then it is.
Argument from authority. Just becaus X Goverment says something or the entire world says something specific does not mean that they are right and I am wrong.
For example, most western countries put sanctions to Iran and consider it a rouge state, eventhough it has allowed inspectors in the country and has proved that it "Does not" have the capability to build nukes.
Does somebody give a damn? No. They put sanctions to them and thus affect an entire population because of the non-existent nukes.
Also, the west can scream as much as they want to when they say ISrael acts illegaly.
Israel is in the state of war with palestinians and they dont give a damn about western opinions when they are backed by the most powerful country in the world.
Is it wrong what they are doing? Maybe.
Is it legal? Yes because of the right to "Defend itself".
The geneva conventions are a joke actually. More than half of the countries in the world have elements in them that ignore the geneve conventions.
Except the golden cage that is europe and maybe the US,peole around the world kill others for bad reasons, ignore the wounded, wage war without declaring it and so on.
Geneva conventios in africa
Look at the comments supporting the acts of the policmen...
Again, does somebody give a damn that they lost their lives?
Explanation video
Where have you been living? Just because something is morally wrong does not mean that it is illegal or unappropriate.
Just because israel does build new homes in "Controversial territory" for its citizens does not mean that it is legaly wrong to do so in Israel or in the world.
And since the terriotry is contested and only israel is sovereign, its just free land.
The geneva conventions are just for the cases where the military does not have a say. Once the military get involved, nobody cares.
I really find the hate towards israel unfounded as they are excercising their power and intelligence for their acts.
Palestinians on the other hand elected hamas.
Quite frankly, I dont care about palestinians or how israel treats them because first and foremost they can do it and nobody will be able to change that. Discrimination is commonplace everywhere on the planet and israeli military actions are mostly "Self preserve".
I dont find any reason to sympathize or give a damn about Palestinians.
They got no futre and die in gaza? Well, the same goes about most african countries and many other countries.
They are getting bombed?
Happens elsewhere aswell.
There is nothing odd with the israeli-palestinian conflict.
And please, the UN should not be used to impose economic sanctions towards a country. It just makes it worse for the people living there.
the world is politicized and if you feel emotionally bad about some injustice around the world then all I gotta tell you ist to grow up.
The whole israeli-palestinian conflict is overdramaticized and imo people hate israel because of them being jewish.
There is not one country in the world that does not deserve the same criticism as israel has.
Also, if YOUR country had the same privileges as the israeli military, they would probably do the same thing.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 27, 2013 11:30 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 00:25, 28 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
It just means that Israel wants to see some cooperation from the other side.
It's probably nescessary for the wolf to take the first steps of cooperation when making peace with the sheep.
Even in the case where that sheep is being a huge pain in the ass.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 28, 2013 12:22 AM |
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Quote:
the world is politicized and if you feel emotionally bad about some injustice around the world then all I gotta tell you ist to grow up.
Laughable advice from someone seeking for psychological upholding through internet void. It is not me who created discussions about life being evil and lack of empathy nowadays.
Seriously Seraphim, if you want to discuss keep on topic and stop searching your weaknesses in the others. Since the beginning you try to prove I am bad, instead of proving I am wrong. I ignored your poor taste personal attacks for a long time, but had to say it at end.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted January 28, 2013 01:27 AM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 02:22, 28 Jan 2013.
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@Sala
Quote:
Quote:
the world is politicized and if you feel emotionally bad about some injustice around the world then all I gotta tell you ist to grow up.
Laughable advice from someone seeking for psychological upholding through internet void.
Laughable eh?. I find it hard that someone thinks that anything I said before was laughable, maybe except you.
It is truly laughable for someone to take argue through my past behavior or posting.
You really think you made a point with this, did not you?
You think I would be stupid enough to gather psych advice on the internet or on a game forum from some questionable members?
But lets say I did. What gives you the right to hold a negative stance on me because I did or said something that you clearly call it laugable?
Really, this one is for the classics. After this part, you dont deserve any responses and I will clearly not respond to you anymore.
But let me finish.
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It is not me who created discussions about life being evil and lack of empathy nowadays.
Oh wow, nice one sala. I actually never elaborated why I said evil. Its mostly because of human indecency. Then I went and extrapolated that human indecency stems from the way nature is organized and thus called nature evil. Of course, because of my limitations and the limitations of this forum, I was unable to further my point without someone derrailing the thread.
Of course, you ignore the fact that the thread was meant to be silly. I simply wanted to express a pure emotion I felt and wanted to hear what people think. The reason why I made those threads was pure emotion. Of course, I am wise enough to know that this forum is probably not the best to do so for many many reasons. One reason is people like you.
Of course I could go on with this but that would be a pity because some admin will delete this because it is "off topic".
[quite]
Seriously Seraphim, if you want to discuss keep on topic and stop searching your weaknesses in the others.
Whats to discuss here mate? Its like the muslims are evil thread. You can only come into a conclusion and be done with it. Your posts just reek of hatered towards israel and sympathisze with palestinians with no apparant reasons to back up your reasoning.
I said what I had to say about this and besides, I dont care if Israel does this or that. There cant be peace there and thats it.
But you keep coming back with half assed opinions with no backing up.
This is a discussion, you maybe be entiteled to your opinion but without backing up, you should not post anything because that is just spam.
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Since the beginning you try to prove I am bad
Since the beginning or this thread I am just trying to say that israel is excercising its rights and could be morally wrong.
The palestinians are no angels and elected hamas before. Before they can claim "You are stealing our land" they must firstly become a legitimate nation.
Also israel builfding new settelments issue. I made it clear that israel may have no moral right to do so, but can because of the military.
Since sanctions against israel are vetoed, nothing will change on the israeli part.
Palestinians keep harrasing israelis with jihad. They are not changing either.
Is this clear for you?
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, instead of proving I am wrong.
In this type of discussions, you cant be wrong.
You believe the israelis are evil and brutal, I say that israel is just exercising its rights.
You COULD be right because israel did commit some heinous actions and I could be right to say that they exercised the right to defend themselves.
Point is, nothing actually comes out of this type of discussions.
Imo,
It is up to the palestinians to change and make a right step, remove radical islam and move onward.
My conclusion, we should stop caring about Palestinians until they do so. That might give them some incentive to give up fascist islamic jihad.
Israel would do good if they became a full secular state with equal rights to everyone living there and maybe do something to improve relations with the west, or at least France and England.
They really would do good if they did tackle some of the individuals who commited war crimes so as to improve public image.
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I ignored your poor taste personal attacks for a long time, but had to say it at end.
And I find your attitude abhorrent and hypocritical. I never enjoyed anything you said in the past or so. But then, I dont care. Since you did bring it up though, I never attack you personaly or insulted you.
However, you may or may not have percieved something I said as an insult,which would be most unfortunate for you.
Personally, I find no reason to bash, hate or demonize israel.
Call it "Political Correctness if you must".
While it would be wise for me to avoid this type of discussions, I find the one sidedness of these discussions very disturbing.
I just want to impose my argument that people should stop caring about Israel because there is nothing but slander people throw at israel.
But anyways sala, I am grateful that I provoked a response as disrespectful towards me from you.
But then, I enjoy disrespect from time to time.
PS.
Oh admins, please dont kill my post and that of sala.
edit:
As for my earlier statement:
Evil Prevails. Why? Because there will always be another guy around who wants power, cares little to the consent of others and has interests in power or wealth.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 28, 2013 07:15 AM |
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Quote:
How do you figure?
Likud rejects a sovereign Palestinian state.
Yesh Atid wants to keep Israeli settlements in Palestine.
etc. All of the major parties are Zionist and want to protect Israel's Jewish identity.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Invictus7
Adventuring Hero
Lurking About...
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posted January 28, 2013 03:41 PM |
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Quote:
All of the major parties are Zionist and want to protect Israel's Jewish identity.
It seems that you think this is bad thing?
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Question Convention
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 28, 2013 05:18 PM |
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You know, I just figured that I'm not all too familiar with Yesh Atid's campaign regarding the Palestinians. So I looked it up. My impression was this: it says absolutely nothing. They state the things that are clear to everyone: there must be a two state solution, there must be peace talks, Israel will hold the biggest settlements in exchange for other territories, etc. etc.
And yes, they're talking about Israel remaining Jewish, but there's nothing inherently bad or really racist about it.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 28, 2013 05:36 PM |
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Quote:
And yes, they're talking about Israel remaining Jewish, but there's nothing inherently bad or really racist about it.
But more than a quarter of the population isn't jewish. You also have laws that favour jews. That's indirect discrimination.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 28, 2013 05:56 PM |
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Israel is a Jewish state by definition. If other people want to live here, they have to respect the Jewish traditions set by the state or move somewhere else. It's like this all over the world. As for the laws, except for the law about who can get an Israeli citizenship (which is again not exclusively Israeli), I can't recall anything that really favors Jews over others. The facts on the ground may be different, but again that's just the injustice that happens everywhere in the world.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 28, 2013 06:07 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 18:08, 28 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
It's like this all over the world
That doesn't mean it's any good.
Nationalism: The idea that all people outside a bunch of lines on a map are worse and less worthy than yourself.
So you can only become an israeli citizen if you're jewish? That's racist.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted January 28, 2013 06:11 PM |
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Quote:
So you can only become an israeli citizen if you're jewish? That's racist.
No, it just makes it easier. Sort of like being born in the USA makes it easier to be a US citizen. 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 28, 2013 06:29 PM |
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American citizenship would be racist if it required you to be an ethnical christian (if such a thing had existed). Jew =/= Israeli
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 28, 2013 06:37 PM |
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Didn't say it was good, simply that if it isn't it's a global problem and shouldn't be blamed on Israel.
No, every man who is born to an Israeli citizen in Israel has Israeli citizenship. If someone migrates to Israel, however, he'll get automatic citizenship if he's a Jew or a son/grandson of a Jew. Otherwise, he'll have a very hard time getting a citizenship. That is so Israel would be a haven for Jews, allowing them to live according to their traditions.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
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Duke of the Glade
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posted January 28, 2013 06:41 PM |
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Quote:
No, every man who is born to an Israeli citizen in Israel has Israeli citizenship. If someone migrates to Israel, however, he'll get automatic citizenship if he's a Jew or a son/grandson of a Jew. Otherwise, he'll have a very hard time getting a citizenship. That is so Israel would be a haven for Jews, allowing them to live according to their traditions.
Change "Jew" with "American" and "Israel" with "America" and you get the American citizenship process. In fact, I'm certain you could do that with basically every first world country... Just say'n, it really isn't as racist as you are assuming.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 28, 2013 06:43 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 19:11, 28 Jan 2013.
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All countries that have obvious racist laws should be blamed.
So the Jewish identity will be destroyed if non-jews get to live as citizens of Israel. We've already seen the Israeli government's view on African immigrants so these kind of laws aren't really surprising.
Gnomes: Then the US has racist citizenship laws too. It makes no sense for citizenship to be nearly unobtainable by hard-working migrants. Especially not for a country like the US, which was built by them.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 28, 2013 06:55 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 18:57, 28 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
Change "Jew" with "American" and "Israel" with "America" and you get the American citizenship process. .
Anyone born on US soil is automatically a citizen...
EDIT. And xerox, the sluggishness of the process in the US has nothing to do with racism (or ethnicism, or whatever ism you want to call it). It all has to do with the ridiculous bureaucracy. It's SLOW, not discriminatory.
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