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| Thread: HotA ideea |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 22, 2012 01:32 PM |
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Edited by krs at 09:53, 24 Dec 2012.
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Edit2:
5.Pirate Treasure Chest New cosmetic for the common treasure chest. So that it can be found on water.
6. Fight locations on water for resources. Mercury, Sulfur and the like cannot be placed on water. So place them in small ships that have some armies you have to defeat. (But nothing so serious like a naga bank, even easier than a full crypt)
Edit: removed native terrain archipelago. Read 1 and 2 below.
So with only reading the description for HotA and without playing a single HotA map here is where I see this new faction could shine. (Some things may be implemented some things not possible but here my thoughts)
1. Terrain is Archipelago Mainly water with lots of small islands and 1-2 bigger ones.
It is perfect for HotA theme. There are tons of stuff in Vanilla H3 related to water that do not see too much usage because everybody generates the maps without water. I saw some new buildings already (like shrines on water). Just add what other buildings are needed to make the faction viable on a starting archipelago terrain.
2. Cove has no native terrain but creatures will get native terrain bonuses when battlefield is of boat type. (Creatures on shore can be attacked from boat. Half of the battle field is boat with 2-3 planks to the other half which is land). Cove castle fight is from boat anyway.
3. Cove main castle is surrounded by water!
Battle in the castle is boat - to castle. Enemy heroes need a summon boat or something to get the castle. Scuttle boat is something also. Enemy can be attacked by cove on water to force a boat to boat battle where cove should have advantage. (Because of access only from the 2 planks in the middle)
4. Make boat to land battlefields and force many boat to boat fights on this terrain. The HotA lineup and skills should complement this.
This will make Cove a unique faction with unique mechanisms like no other faction in H3 and will infuse some new life into the game.
(ps. Everything that is not possible because of H3 limitations will be possible with VCMI
If cove is loved so much as it is (never played it) then another faction should be invented to fill this role).
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osur
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 22, 2012 05:45 PM |
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I don't mean to be rude, but I'd much rather just see the HotA team's own ideas come to life first before we start giving suggestions on how they could improve and such.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 22, 2012 07:26 PM |
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New terrain - water with islands? Seems like two terrains which exists in the original game. 
The rest is too OP. Also - KISS.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 22, 2012 08:38 PM |
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I was considering a new terrain type for bonus purposes.
Now that you've mention it... maybe fight on a boat as native terrain is enough if attacking creatures on the shore from the ship would be possible. (Cove castle is supposed to be on water anyway).
Will edit the first post.
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ChaosHydra
Famous Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 04:54 AM |
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I have no idea what you're talking about.
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don_komandorr
Known Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 05:55 AM |
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Quote:
Cove castle is supposed to be on water anyway
WHAT? 
Sorry man, but you aren't rom hota team thus you can't say such things.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 06:43 AM |
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Edited by krs at 06:45, 23 Dec 2012.
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Quote:
Quote:
Cove castle is supposed to be on water anyway
WHAT?
Sorry man, but you aren't rom hota team thus you can't say such things.
Like all other posts on this forum this one reflects MY opinions. What do you want me to do? Post a IMHO before every single Sentence? It is implied that way.
Why are you so shocked? You are shocked that someone sees a town with nymphs/mates/pirates/ocean spirit/sea priestess/lizard/and sea serpent set on an island ( surrounded by water  ) from where you will leave by ship?.
And "sorry man", but I do not need to be in hota team to post my opinions.
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hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 10:15 AM |
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Of course it's your opinion, but you said that Cove "is supposed" to be on water and that's clearly bullsh*t. It's supposed to be as it is and your opinion won't change it.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted December 23, 2012 12:00 PM |
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krs,I am just a player and havent made any map,defs or ERM functions yet.
From a player's point of view I would say it is very interesting idea to begin a siege with a boat and not on land!
Although I guess it would be your modification,if you have the time and skills to do it-at least at the begining.
It is important also what is the difficulty of doing it and if many players would be interested by it.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 12:35 PM |
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Some of the ideas are quite nice. "New terrain" is, i think, not possible. But getting native terrain bonus on ship is a good idea. But (i'm not sure about that) just giving them water as native terrain should do the same job.
Cove castle on water? Interesting idea. Siege with ship then? Great. But it should not be enforced. Like tower could be built on swamp too, cove should be placeable on any other terrain, too.
BTW: I'd really appreciate more castle pics matching the terrain they are built on.
Disallowing ideas and/or suggestions for non-HotA members is nonsense!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 23, 2012 12:51 PM |
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Except that those ideas require to rebuilt the thing. That's why people giving ideas are considered by a little clique as arrogant and noobish.
I agree with both sides, ideas could help, but when coming from non initiates-to HoTA technology- they can get a few people on their nerves, specially when project is almost completed. The truth is that every new addition to the game, terrains, spells, heroes, towns, can take up to years of work. Free work.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Sav
Known Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 02:28 PM |
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Edited by Sav at 14:31, 23 Dec 2012.
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Of course, ideas are allowed, but we unlikely will consider them as we have some concepts, which many ideas are not compatible with, and our own ideas which are waiting for realization. Although sometimes ideas can help us solving our issues.
Obiviously, don_komandorr meant only that the opinion that Cove is supposed to be on water is wrong: Cove is a town like original ones.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 02:31 PM |
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Quote:
Disallowing ideas and/or suggestions for non-HotA members is nonsense!
I think KomandoRR didn't want to disallow ideas, but rather disallow sentences like "It's supposed to be not like you did", because THAT is nonsense.
Quote:
getting native terrain bonus on ship is a good idea. But (i'm not sure about that) just giving them water as native terrain should do the same job.
IMBA. Cove would be then useful only (and I mean: ONLY) on water maps, and while there are not so many of them, it would kinda suck.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 05:25 PM |
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Edited by krs at 18:22, 23 Dec 2012.
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The bonus on water works if starting terrains is some kind of archipelago. They will have problems on maps not created with this terrain or without any water. This could be a RMG feature: When you specify native terrain for Cove even if no water option is set you generate an archipelago as starting terrain.
As for disadvantages... imagine on Jebus template.Every faction starts on its native terrain. So Cove will have exactly the same advantages/problems like everybody else. Maybe an advantage even because imagine you want to attack cove and you have like until now logistics expert but no navigation...
As for Cove suffering from no water content "rule", on the contrary it will be the solution to that. It will make people choose some water maps just because of this new town with new mechanics/creatures/objects. It will bring water back to heroes games. Like I've said before there are a lot of objects, spells, skills, artifacts water related that are just not used. To these add the new objects created by HotA team. Again RMG could generate starting terrain archipelago even if no water content option is set.
And finally the argument about Cove having problems because of no water content "rule" can be refuted partly because Cove/HotA comes with tons of new water objects. Especially intended for water maps.
And lastly I have not said anywhere HotA team "implement this or else". I just had some ideas that I wanted to share. They could disturb them only if they are good. If they are bad call them bad and that's it. If they are good, be happy you got some free advice and start thinking about how you will implement them (if its possible, if it is worth it, etc). Or someone could take my idea and create a new Cove. Artwork is there and some configuration files could not be so hard to implement. Support for RMG is the problem at the moment.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted December 23, 2012 10:34 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Disallowing ideas and/or suggestions for non-HotA members is nonsense!
I think KomandoRR didn't want to disallow ideas, but rather disallow sentences like "It's supposed to be not like you did", because THAT is nonsense.
Hehe, that is right. Although i don't think that it is meant like "It's supposed to be not like you did". That is the same nonsense as disalowing ideas for non-members.
Quote:
Quote:
getting native terrain bonus on ship is a good idea. But (i'm not sure about that) just giving them water as native terrain should do the same job.
IMBA. Cove would be then useful only (and I mean: ONLY) on water maps, and while there are not so many of them, it would kinda suck.
Hmmm, isn't cove meant to be a water faction? Pirates and the like? Aren't they meant to be played on maps with much water?
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 24, 2012 12:26 AM |
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Not really. Although Cove would get a great advantage over other towns on island maps, it's also playable on the regular non-water maps and can be played pretty well. It's like with Fortress or Tower - meant to be for snow/swamp, but also useful on other terrains.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2012 09:49 AM |
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Edited by krs at 09:53, 24 Dec 2012.
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5.Pirate Treasure Chest New cosmetic for the common treasure chest. So that it can be found on water.
6. Fight locations on water for resources. Mercury, Sulfur and the like cannot be placed on water. So place them in small ships that have some armies you have to defeat. (But nothing so serious like a naga bank, even easier than a full crypt)
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2012 09:56 AM |
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Sure. Fortress is playable on snow, and Tower is playable on swamp. Should be the same with cove. But for good reason they all have their native terrain which gives a small advantage. Personally i would extend this native terrain advantage, but that's only personally.
I think the idea of water as native terrain for cove is a nice idea. Could be discussed further. And navigation should be the common standard skill for cove heroes like leadership is for castle heroes.
@Salamandre: Yes, i know that very well. I'm a software developer. Often (most times) just before the product is shipped the customer gets more and other ideas. That is for what "version 2" is for 
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hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 24, 2012 10:18 AM |
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Edited by hobbit at 10:19, 24 Dec 2012.
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And navigation should be the common standard skill for cove heroes like leadership is for castle heroes.
"Hmm... Maybe should I play with Cove today... Well, it's M, so Cove would work pretty well. And also it's a new town - I'm kinda bored with the original ones... no, wait - every Cove hero has Navigation yet there is no water. No, thanks."
I'm pretty sure HotA Crew did knew what is balanced town about. Doing something like this would make Cove playable only on water - and that's where it would be fine, even great. But when it comes to non-water maps - one secondary skill is wasted at start.
And remember: it's a first purely new town aften over ten years, so it's rather supposed to be played more often.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2012 10:18 AM |
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Every random template was created with water restrictions (none). The reason behind that is that in Heroes water is an empty and sterile terrain, the generator will not allow anything good on. It may trigger some strategies here and there on custom maps, but at universal scale is just a waste of space. From gameplay point of view it will be a step back to create a town on water, then have nothing to explore around.
Reworking the map generator is a whole new problem, I doubt HoTA will ever do it. They just wanted a new town. "Just" is sarcastic, as the work behind this little thing as a new town is already titanic.
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Era II mods and utilities
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