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| Thread: HotA ideea |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2012 11:06 AM |
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Again the water/no water argument. Yest water was pretty sterile BEFORE HotA. HotA comes with tons of water objects. Even Shrines are now available on water. And starting terrain is not supposed to be water only but an archipelago, and on small islands you can put anything.
So yes you will not play cove on some waterless maps (talking about user made, RMG is fixable). On the other hand on water maps you will prefer COVE to others.
RMG will be done at one point by VCMI, without any inside I would estimate that next year work will start on it. And if they have this information in sight (I mean if they consider it worth it) archipelago native terrain can be implemented.
All in all I see more good things coming from a faction with new mechanics (even if it will not be viable on 100% of maps), than introducing N'th faction with same old mechanics but different names.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2012 11:23 AM |
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We have no confirmation 100% that VCMI will be out one day (things may happen, real life constraint, this is not payed work).
We have no confirmation that VCMI will modify map generator to create HoTA new environment (it is only your idea).
We have no confirmation HoTA will be ported to VCMI.
You are not in HoTA team 
So basically you would want HoTA team to invest their free time in creating a town which potentially could never be playable because something did not marry with VCMI. For one I would take it as a very risky decision unless there is a majority demand, which is not the case.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted December 24, 2012 11:37 AM |
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Quote:
We have no confirmation that VCMI will modify map generator (where did you read that?).
Here. I also mentioned it in official thread 
All in all, it's better to have some plans and try to realize them, than to have no plans at all.
Certainly better RMG won't happen on its own. Also, no new features aimed directly on Cove town can happen if the team does not give any feedback about their requests.
Quote:
We have no confirmation 100% that VCMI will be out one day
I think I already answered this one. What do you mean by "be out one day"? What do you actually expect 
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2012 12:10 PM |
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I expect (does not mean I request!):
1) Version 1.
2) Full manual with examples for each possible action (the strongest point of wog)
3) Finished and tested product, with a few mods released by the team, to show the potential and functionality (as Fnord maps conditioned wog availability)
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Era II mods and utilities
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted December 24, 2012 12:39 PM |
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Quote:
1) Version 1.
This is very wrong. For Example, eMule program was started in 2003 and is still at version 0.50a, even though it had millions of users some years ago
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2012 02:16 PM |
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Edited by krs at 14:18, 24 Dec 2012.
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I cannot be more clearer than this. I do not ask for no-one to work on anything. I had some ideas that I wanted to share, that's all. Of course I would be more than happy if the ideas are so good that some of my original/modified suggestions would be implemented in in HotA.
As a sidenote: I saw up to now on this forum tons of suggestions even more eccentric than these, with no "attacks", but somehow HotA seems to be a sensitive issue.
The other post on how to do it are just replies to "It cannot be done". It can be done and if there is will there are a couple of ways to do it.
And my ideas have nothing to do with VCMI or WoG or Era even HotA. I mention HotA because Cove and some objects are already implemented there. VMCI comes to mind as solution, because it is a complete remake of H3 with all the source code available! So guys with right skills could modify the code relatively easy to make this work. (I mean they've almost rebuild all Heroes 3 so a "couple" of modifications for a new faction should not be that hard). (And please do not tell me now that I ask the VCMI team to implement this  , I just said its possible).
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don_komandorr
Known Hero
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posted December 24, 2012 05:11 PM |
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Quote:
Reworking the map generator is a whole new problem, I doubt HoTA will ever do it.
But it doesn't stop us from making water "not empty" terrain.
Making water interesting and playable on random maps and new custom maps in general is one of primary goals.
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perinajbara
Hired Hero
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posted December 29, 2012 01:19 PM |
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I must add, as a player, I mostly enjoy random maps. Seeing how there's almost no water objects that make me wish explore water more, I would definitely like to see water made a bit more playable and enjoyable. I always think about exploring over water, but then it strikes me: "I wouldn't be able to find anything worthwhile."
That's why I support the idea of enhancing the water, and the random map generator, consequently. :-)
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SkeleTony
Hired Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 02:39 AM |
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Hobbit said:
Not really. Although Cove would get a great advantage over other towns on island maps, it's also playable on the regular non-water maps and can be played pretty well. It's like with Fortress or Tower - meant to be for snow/swamp, but also useful on other terrains.
The problem you seem to be willfully dodging is that Cove NOT being only a coastal town is that it is no different than creating a town called "Ice Fortress" with units like Yetis, ice dragons, frost mages etc. but allowing such to exist in desert terrain, volcanic terrain etc. just as easily as frozen tundra.
Don't get me wrong as I am a BIG fan of HotA and think the professionalism of the whole thing is astonishing! I just think it would make for better logical consistency if Cove were limited to coastal town locations (perhaps with some other counter-balancing benefit if necessary).
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 07, 2014 12:25 PM |
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That's now how H3 works though.
Towns may be linked to a certain terrain, but they can be placed anywhere. There's no consistency if Cove and only be placed in coastal regions and the other nine towns can be put anywhere.
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Orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 12:54 PM |
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Long live Homm2 and its town alignment. Any town anywhere - isn't it awesome?
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SkeleTony
Hired Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:19 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
That's now how H3 works though.
Towns may be linked to a certain terrain, but they can be placed anywhere. There's no consistency if Cove and only be placed in coastal regions and the other nine towns can be put anywhere.
Largely irrelevant to my point though.
This is the very reason that people like me were skeptical of a "Pirate themed town" since the idea first popped up in the late 1990s. Logically the town HAS TO be a coastal town capable of building a shipyard and the challenge for the designer would be to counter whatever benefits or disadvantages with other benefits and/or disadvantages. AGAIN, would you not see a problem with an "Ice Fortress" town that could appear in deserts, volcanic islands etc.?
Cove town IS a water/island/coastal based town in theme. The 'Might' hero is called a "Captain" (of what if not a ship?) and the 'Magic' hero is called a "Navigator". The units are Pirates, "Crew Mates", Oceanids/Nymphs and "Sea Serpents".
The town itself is called the "Cove"! So if you guys want to continue denying this then that is your business.
EDIT: And I would add also that "Dungeon" SHOULD be restricted to underground and Silvan "Ramparts" should be restricted to non-underground maps in the vicinity of forests/woods. However none of us bother nitpicking this point because it is not a disastrous game-breaking matter.
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SkeleTony
Hired Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:21 PM |
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Orzie said:
Long live Homm2 and its town alignment. Any town anywhere - isn't it awesome?
Yes and it works for HoMM 2 because there are no "Cove" towns. If 3DO HAD developed such a town then it would have been restricted to coastal areas and they would have counterbalanced this somehow.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 07, 2014 01:27 PM |
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SkeleTony said:
AGAIN, would you not see a problem with an "Ice Fortress" town that could appear in deserts, volcanic islands etc.?
No, because in HoM&M, towns represent themes, but for logical, gameplay reasons they don't necessarily need to be placed on the same terrain of their theme.
If each town had to be placed ONLY on their theme terrain, then mapmaking would be so much limited that it would make no sense.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:37 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
If each town had to be placed ONLY on their theme terrain, then mapmaking would be so much limited that it would make no sense.
The talk is only about RMG generator. In editor you will still place any town anywhere
It;s strange when snow Tower is placed on lava.So Cove placed not near water is also strange.
Don't know pirates that placed their bases in deep continent.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 07, 2014 01:43 PM |
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Macron1 said:
The talk is only about RMG generator. In editor you will still place any town anywhere
He didn't mention RMG during this discussion
In RMG I would agree it would make sense to have Cove near water, Tower on snow terrain etc. But from phrases like this one
SkeleTony said:
I just think it would make for better logical consistency if Cove were limited to coastal town locations (perhaps with some other counter-balancing benefit if necessary).
I understand he is talking on a general speaking basis.
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SkeleTony
Hired Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:47 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
SkeleTony said:
AGAIN, would you not see a problem with an "Ice Fortress" town that could appear in deserts, volcanic islands etc.?
No, because in HoM&M, towns represent themes, but for logical, gameplay reasons they don't necessarily need to be placed on the same terrain of their theme.
If each town had to be placed ONLY on their theme terrain, then mapmaking would be so much limited that it would make no sense.
First of all, AGAIN: I was not asserting that all towns only be placed on the terrain that makes the most sense, so you are straw manning me here. And secondly you are wrong in saying that sensible placement of towns would somehow lead to nonsensical map making. Do you honestly think/believe that coast-themed towns appearing only on coasts would somehow lead to nonsensical map-making?! Especially when we are only really talking about the RMG here, not designed maps?
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SkeleTony
Hired Hero
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posted July 07, 2014 01:51 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Macron1 said:
The talk is only about RMG generator. In editor you will still place any town anywhere
He didn't mention RMG during this discussion
In RMG I would agree it would make sense to have Cove near water, Tower on snow terrain etc. But from phrases like this one
SkeleTony said:
I just think it would make for better logical consistency if Cove were limited to coastal town locations (perhaps with some other counter-balancing benefit if necessary).
I understand he is talking on a general speaking basis.
I thought it obvious that I had to be talking about RMG maps and not designed maps. I honestly did not think anyone could assume otherwise like you did. Obviously I am not talking about telling map makers how to design their own maps or restricting them in such ways. While I may not be in favor of doing nonsensical things in map making I fully understand that there are a crap ton of maps with all manner of nonsensical features and I have no desire to prohibit such.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 07, 2014 02:06 PM |
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I take back what I said then.
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FunBun7
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 25, 2014 01:40 PM |
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I have played the Extra Huge map from HotA called 'Barren Lands'. Even though I am used to playing WoG and thus 'miss' certain featured, I think HotA is great! It sure has potential to become a great addition to an already great game. I found that for the aforementioned map, the spell Town Portal is not available.
As we all know, Town Portal is one of the best spells from the game and unlike Dimension Door and Fly, it becomes increasingly useful on bigger maps. With the Huge/Extra Huge/Giant maps that are available in HotA, Town Portal will just be too big of an advantage. That's why I think it would be good if there was something similar as the 'Mirror of the Home-way' from WoG available in HotA. For those who are not familiar with it: the Mirror of the Home-way is an adventure object that lets you Town Portal for a 1,000 gold to a town you own of your choice. As this is an adventure object, you cannot use it whenever you want, but it makes for very nice balanced version of Town Portal in my opinion. I'm not sure if people agree on this or if this is possible to implement, but I am looking forward to what you guys think
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