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| Thread: HOMM3 Mapmaking gurus - share your wisdom! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Biobob
Famous Hero
the Bobler
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posted January 07, 2013 09:23 PM |
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Edited by Biobob at 21:23, 07 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
I'd assume the event would reset to 20 elementals for the next hero who touches it.
Nope, troops never reset, only exception being creature dwellings after weeks end. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 07, 2013 09:25 PM |
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You can hit and run while in an event, the event will keep track of casualties until all troops are gone.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Biobob
Famous Hero
the Bobler
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posted January 07, 2013 10:34 PM |
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Exactly this idea I've built into a map of mine (which will probably be released this year), in which you make full use of an event holding 5 creatures. Three heroes and a tavern, an oasis, and ton of stuff to do on one day... (I know, shameless self-advertisement)
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VikingLegion
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 12, 2013 04:40 AM |
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Before I even started building my map, I had drawn up plans in a notebook detailing the main Hero for each faction. When it came to their specialties, I wanted to get creative and make some outside of the box decisions.
For example: the Tower faction's main Hero fancies himself quite the war-wizard - having spent almost as much time studying the tactics and art of warfare as he does studying his spells. To this end I wanted to give him Orrin's (of the Castle faction) specialty of Archery - seeing as the warmage is all about proper placement of his troops to grant them maximum damage potential. I figured this could be easily accomplished by making a hero with identity=Orrin, and then just customizing his portrait, name, biography, etc to what I wanted.
Imagine my surprise when I placed a wizard hero down on the map and when I opened up the Identity dropdown it gave me only 6 or 7 wizard IDs to choose from. It simply never even crossed my mind that it would limit me in that way - just as I can change the portrait to be any hero of any faction in the game, I figured I'd be able to do the same with identity. Apparently not so.
Question 4
Is there no way I can make a Wizard hero that has the specialty from another faction but behaves in all other regards as a Wizard (appearance, skills, morale/terrain bonuses/etc)? Or how about a Cleric hero (Castle) that is a Resurrection specialist - which would make terrific sense thematically, since they are a CLERIC and all, but I'm seeing the only resurrection specialists as the warlocks Alamar and Jeddite of the Dungeon faction. Ack, this is really going to screw with my plans unless there's a workaround I'm not seeing.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 12, 2013 06:16 AM |
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As far as I know, there is no way to do what you're asking. It's been a while since I used the editor in vanilla H3. Sometimes I forget what's possible and what isn't, since pretty much anything is possible with WoG. You might have to find out some other way to give the hero the power you have in mind. I'll think on it, but that's what jumps to mind.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 12, 2013 06:28 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 06:29, 12 Jan 2013.
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Also, for the benefit of everyone, I am going to reproduce your HCM to me, VikingLegion, plus my response. I hope you're ok with that. (If not, let me know and I'll delete this post.)
Quote:
Hello Corribus,
You mentioned something about a clever way to make timed scripts using "daily resource bonuses" in a previous post. Any chance you could elaborate on that? I only see ways to add/remove resources, build buildings, or add creatures to the recruitable pool. I'd really like to know if artifacts can be handed out on a specific day to a player. Thanks
My reply:
Quote:
There are limitations to what you can script, and scripting events especially for the human player is rather difficult, but you can script certain time related AI-related behaviors and effects fairly easily using daily resource bonuses and colored quest tents.
For example. Suppose you wanted a powerful AI hero for Red Faction to suddenly appear on the map on the beginning of month 2 (day 28) in the midst of the player's territory. What you do is this: start Red Faction off with zero resources (subtract all resources on day 1). Place the powerful red hero in an otherwise inaccessible portion of the map with a gem mine, a quest guard that requires 28 gems to pass, a red tent behind the quest guard, a red border gate, and a one way portal into the player's territory behind the red border gate. The red faction will start with zero gems on day 1, and then gain 1 gem every day due to the gem mine it takes with the powerful hero on day 1. On day 28 Red Faction will have 28 gems, which will allow it to bypass the quest guard and access the red tent, and then pass the red border gate, go through the portal and into human territory on exactly day 28.
That's a simple example, but more complex effects can be achieved based on more elaborate versions of the same principle. In my map Traemask 2, I worked it out so that an AI "ghost" bearing a certain quest artifact appeared by a special pond underground every two weeks for a single day on the same day. THe quest was a puzzle that required the player to visit the pond on the right day to defeat the ghost hero and take the artifact. Did this using the same basic resource + quest guard + color gate idea.
You do have to test these thigns out extensively to make sure the AI does what you want. Also there are some limitations. For instance, the faction in question can't be used for anything else, at least until the scripted event occurs, because if the faction acquires the resources by other means, it will screw things up. Also, it obviously can't be used to make artifacts appear in the player's inventory on a certain day, which seems to be what you want to do.
That said, you could make a certain enemy hero appear near the player's home town on a certain day bearing the artifact in question. You could easily set it up as part of the story: messenger comes bearing a special artifact, you must prove yourself worthy by beating him in combat, or something to that effect. You just have to be creative. If you need help with a specific scenario, let me know and I'll see if I can lead you in the right direction.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted January 12, 2013 11:03 AM |
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@Question 4: The most You can do is customize the hero in question so that he receives Alamar's/Jeddite's specialty, but keeps a Cleric portrait. This will basically turn him into a Warlock though, with a Warlock's skill probabilities and primary skill preferences.(Though You can still give him the secondary skills a Cleric would normally start with, with additional skills taught by scholars behind quest gates, if You want to predetermine his skills but make it so they aren't all available at day one)) Morale and terrain bonuses aren't hero dependent(Except the possible Leadership bonus).
Another approach is to give him the Resurrection spell as his starting one: He won't enhance it, but he will be able to remain a Cleric.
Sorry for the event fight mishap, been a while since I played such a map.
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!
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VikingLegion
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 12, 2013 06:05 PM |
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Thanks guys, great info. It's been over a decade since I've even played this game, let alone build a map for it (which I've only done for HOMM2) so you guys have been a great resource. I'm sorry to keep asking such noob questions, but as I may have mentioned earlier my friends are on a HOMM3 resurgence at the moment, so I want to strike while the iron is hot so to speak. I'm sure I could learn all this stuff eventually on my own, but the testing and trial+error would be very time consuming, so all of you accelerating my learning curve is a tremendous help.
@Corribus - thanks for spelling that out for me. I figured it was something of that nature (similar to Biobob's contribution), but I was holding out hope I could somehow script an artifact delivery to a human player directly. Specifically I wanted the Castle player to have a very strong "holy empire" flavor to it. He would start the game under heavy duress from multiple computer AIs. Basically for the first 2-3 weeks he would be forced to mostly turtle up in his castle and defend against waves of attackers, making only occasional forays out to try to open up his map. Then, on day 14 or 21 he would receive a message from his deity about how exemplary a job he's done defending the realm against the infidels. At the tail end of this message he would receive a powerful relic of the faith - maybe the Sword of Judgement or something of that nature, plus some reinforcement troops in order to ride out and finally begin taking the fight to his enemies.
It looks now like this is not possible to execute in this exact nature. I like your idea with the hero that appears on a particular day, but in my scenario I can foresee some pitfalls. When he steps through the portal on day 21 or whatever, there's no guarantee he's going to go for the human player. What if he decides the castle is not feasible to attack and goes off in another direction, getting himself killed by another AI in the area? It would be disastrous for that major artifact to end up in the wrong hands.
I guess I'll have to resort to making this a placed event on the map for the Castle player to trigger. Maybe an earlier event will tell him to travel to a certain temple or holy site of his god when he feels ready and confident in his army's strength. When he goes there he will trigger an event only for his color where he must defeat a moderately strong force of monk defenders to earn the artifact. This way it can't fall into the wrong hands, and at the same time he can't get it early - it will take several weeks to build up a force that can defeat the guardians. Either that or have the artifact blocked by a gate demanding a resource not commonly used by that faction - like sulfur - and adding a sulfur dune to his area. Sure, the timing won't be perfect, as the player can delay his own progress by using sulfur in mage guild upgrades, or he could accelerate it by trading in the marketplace, but I could at least make a general ballpark timeline by setting the requirement to 20ish sulfur.
@Polyglot - I feared as much with the Hero customization. I don't like the idea of having a knight lead the tower creatures just to get the archery specialization, or a warlock leading castle troops.... bleh. Yeah I know I can customize the knight to make him a pseudo-wizard via primary and secondary skills - but he's always going to say Knight when you open up his page, and he'll be clad in platemail on the map - maybe I'm a bit on the OCD side, but that just won't do! Good call on the terrain bonus. I thought the hero had to match the monsters, but apparently a hero of any faction could lead an army through swampland without penalty provided every creature is of the fortress faction. I think the only game mechanic having a non-matching hero will affect is perhaps a small negative % on neutral stacks joining - meaning a wizard leading tower troops might have a slightly better chance at getting a horde of gremlins to join than a beastlord leading tower troops. Really not sure what I'm going to do with this, I might have to scrap my initial ideas for specialties and just go a more traditional route.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 12, 2013 06:41 PM |
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@VikingLegion
Well it's unlikely you could have this "hero from the gods" attack the human player unless there was a reasonable chance the AI could win the battle (you can't script changes to intrinsic AI behavior - only influence it indirectly). However you CAN prevent the hero from going another direction, and therefore tell the player to attack the AI hero.
Setting it up as I explained before, have the AI hero appear near the player's castle behind a color gate that the AI hero cannot pass but the player can. This will freeze the AI hero in position. Alternatively, you can place the AI hero near the player's castle and make it so that the only route the AI hero can take is through the castle's trigger square. The doesn't ensure the hero will actually attack the player if he is a lot stronger than the AI hero, but it will ensure that the AI hero doesn't stray and give up its artifact to some other AI faction.
As for delivering troops... well, one way you could bring about this effect (in combination with giving up the artifact) would be the following: suppose the player doesn't have access to green tent. Near the player's starting position, put a green border guard (the kind that disappear after accessing) at a T-junction. One side of the "T" is the player's castle. The second side is a one way portal exit. The third side is an otherwise inaccessible area with whatever goodies you want the player to get (troop dwellings, troops set to join, resources, artifacts - you can do whatever you want). You can put this on the other side of a portal if you want to keep it hidden. Now, set up the AI resource thing as I explained before, and in this area put the corresponding color tent to the guard at the T-junction. On the day in question, the AI hero will arrive through the 1 way portal exit and take down the barrier, giving the player access to the secret area on that specific day. To prevent the "hero from the gods" from wandering around and collecting the treasure for himself, you can put an event on either side of the T-junction specific only to that faction color that triggers a battle. Hero of the gods will appear to mysteriously die (from my experience, AI is blind to this kind of event - he will blunder into it instead of fleeing, as he would from a large creature stack, for example). And there you go, gifts from the gods on a specific day. I realize this isn't exactly the same as "magically appearing in your inventory", but it still will achieve the same effect.
One thing you have to realize, is that when dealing with H3 vanilla you have to shape the story around what is possible in the editor. Most effects are possible, but the means to which they are achieved are not. You have to frame the story around it. In contrast, in WoG you can shape what you do in the editor around the story (for the most part - some things still aren't possible. . H3 vanilla does require some flexibility in the story you want to tell.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted January 12, 2013 09:10 PM |
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Well, at least the reinforcements are easy to set up Just add a timed event to the player's castle making bonus troops recruitable on the day You have in mind, possibly adding the needed extra funds as well.(For this to work, the structures need to be built in the town, also something You can script to happen - coupled with resource manipulation, You can essentially set new prices for buildings this way btw. The way to do it is this: disable whatever building You want to have built this way, and add a timed event specific to the town, that on day x, the initially banned structure is built(Multiple buildings can be built like this at the same time). You can even fit a mini-story around it: for example, subtract a given 'research fee' beforehand, and have the town's scientists 'figure out' a way to build advanced structures, which then your workers can 'build' at last.(Additional 'building costs' can be inserted here too if You feel like it.)
@relic problem: Have a quest guard in front of the patch granting the relic, a message that for x, the player gets a chance to pray there, and have x delivered to him on a specific day(For example: To contact the Dark Lord, You need to burn 999999 units of sulfur at the altar!) This has the risk of the player using the eventual resource bonus(given via timed event/after defeating a mini-boss enemy hero/neutral stack) for unintended purposes, so the mapmaker is advised to tie the event to the possibility of continuing the game(By for example locking the player in an area with the only player-accessible exit behind the 'altar'
This usually ensures that things go according to the GM's original design.
EDIT: Oh, and the alignment of the hero doesn't affect joining chances. Click for more details
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!
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VikingLegion
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 13, 2013 02:59 AM |
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Good stuff Corribus, I very well may set up an area just as you explained. One thing I will add though is that by setting a computer AI's disposition to "Warrior" they do seem to initiate fights even when they are outmatched by a fairly wide margin. I was running my test map for a 2-3 week trial to look at something totally unrelated and noticed I had to keep repulsing several attacks from enemy heroes that had no legitimate chance at victory.
Polyglot - I actually did know those tricks. I've been playing around in the castle timed events (looking for a means to deliver an artifact) and I did see where troops can be added to the dwellings as well as the buildings themselves being constructed. I may use that for some of the faction's tier 7 monsters, as many of those are for very iconic monsters. Getting them to join your city can be made into a major and memorable event as opposed to a simple click and build.
*Edit* wow, Diplomacy mechanics are pretty in depth, thanks for the link.
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VikingLegion
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 19, 2013 05:52 AM |
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Super noob question:
Question #5
How do I change the orientation of the garrisons and border gates? For garrisons I see there are both horizontal and vertical, but the verticals are only on a right to left slightly diagonal orientation. There's got to be a way to swap that to its mirror, to make an enclosed hexagonal area I'd think. For border gates I see only a horizontal option to place. I know it's got to be something ridiculously simple, I've tried various combinations of shift/ctrl, mouse-wheeling, etc but can't find the right combo.
Kinda embarassed on this one, but I really want to know.
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Biobob
Famous Hero
the Bobler
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posted January 19, 2013 09:02 AM |
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It's not possible
Well, you can use WoG Editor, but I don't know if that suits you...
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VikingLegion
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 20, 2013 11:35 PM |
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Well crap, that's hard to believe such a basic function is not available. Oh well, I can adjust around it (yes, I'm using the vanilla H3 editor, no WoG).
Well I've got a few more noob questions. Most of these are testable, but I'm going to be away for a little while with no chance to work on my map, and you guys have been so helpful so far
Question 6
Is there a way to set the "Week of the *" function, so I can setup when certain monsters get extra growth and random stacks on the map? I imagine it would be in map specs, but like I said I won't be working on it for a few days.
Question 7
How does "allies" work? Can we walk into each other's castles to check mage guilds without changing ownership? Back in HOMM2 we would always put a lowbie runner outside the gate to retake it after letting a player in for one turn to learn the spells. Can we freely recruit each other's monsters? Let's say I'm player 1 (red, Tower) and my friend is player 2 (blue, Castle) and we come across an AI controlled Tower with a very strong army that will require us to work together. I attack and severely weaken it, but must retreat before getting the job quite done. My friend goes in for the finish and claims the Tower for blue. Can he cede the Tower to me (red player) so that I get ownership/resources/etc, or do we just have to live with him owning it with me going in to recruit - which isn't optimal because I couldn't Town Portal to a Tower that doesn't fly my flag. Either that or do something tedious like allow a weak computer opponent to take it over so that I can retake it.
I know we can send each other resources via the marketplace, and probably have heroes meet up and trade artifacts (again our old way was to transfer an artifact to an expendable level 1, and let him get killed), so really the castle ownership is the big question.
Question 8
Global restrictions - I saw in the map specifications where I can deselect many aspects of the game - from artifacts, to skills, to spells. I could've sworn that some of the mega-artifacts that are defaulted to non-checked I had already placed on my test map to see what they did. So from this can I safely assume that deselecting them only prevents them appearing at random, but that they can forcibly be placed on the map? So I could ban for example, the Diplomacy skill, so no Hero would ever have that as a choice upon levelling, but then place it in a witch hut for players to acquire in that manner? I hope this is how it works for purposes of artifacts - I have a couple quest gates that ask for some crappy expendable artifacts (like the +5% Eagle Eye statue), and then I place that artifact behind a fairly difficult area to get to. I'd hate to see a player open a random chest or piece of flotsam at sea and acquire that statue, blowing the quest wide open before its time.
Thanks again guys
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted January 21, 2013 12:00 AM |
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[quote
Question 6
As far as I know, that's not possible. The extra growth is possible for players and AI,(In-castle timed event) but not for neutral stacks.(Though You can customize them a bit: You can set their starting number, and if You want, You can disable that given stack's weekly growth)
Question 7
Castle(and mine, etc) ownership stays the same, You can even check what your ally is building etc by accessing his town(s) from the adventure map. You can use allied taverns to buy heroes for yourself, but everything else is forbidden. When 2 allied heroes meet, the active one(the one whose turn it is) can pass along artifacts or army, but they can't take anything from the other hero. In older versions, artifact swapping could be used to "steal" a good artie by substituting a bad one, but that bug is corrected now. Fun fact: When having a computer ally, You can try asking for some resources via the chat, and the comp is likely to comply with your request... eventually, then he will ask for some resources 'back', and won't help You further unless You send some.(The formula seems to be: [Player color] would appreciate a gift of (Resource, written with a capitalised first letter)
Question 8
Yep.
I hope this is how it works for purposes of artifacts...
Yep. (IIRC artifacts that are needed for quests are automatically set to unique, but that may only be true for random maps)
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!
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VikingLegion
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 21, 2013 02:10 AM |
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Quote:
Question 6
As far as I know, that's not possible. The extra growth is possible for players and AI,(In-castle timed event) but not for neutral stacks.(Though You can customize them a bit: You can set their starting number, and if You want, You can disable that given stack's weekly growth)
Yep, I've got the castle timed event population thing and the neutral stacks custom/random and growth/no growth thing down, what I was looking for was more of a timeline where I can set week to week whether it's something that doesn't affect the game - like Week of the Aardvark - vs. Week of the [insert monster name here]. Perhaps some maps have a theme, like something is driving dragons across the land wild, they are coming up out of their lairs to wreak havoc on the land. You could set (not every week, that would get annoying) week 3 to be Week of the Green Dragon, then maybe week 6 as Red, week 9 as Gold, week 12 as Black and onward with Rust, Crystal, and Azure dragons. All other weeks would be left at random, but in this manner you could guarantee a much higher concentration of dragons, both in recruitable terms, as well as small stacks that randomly pop up on the map every 3 weeks. That would work nicely for a land plagued by a rash of undead, by stepping it up every few weeks with more and more powerful versions. I'm guessing this isn't possible in the H3 regular editor.
Quote:
Question 7
Castle(and mine, etc) ownership stays the same, You can even check what your ally is building etc by accessing his town(s) from the adventure map. You can use allied taverns to buy heroes for yourself, but everything else is forbidden. When 2 allied heroes meet, the active one(the one whose turn it is) can pass along artifacts or army, but they can't take anything from the other hero. In older versions, artifact swapping could be used to "steal" a good artie by substituting a bad one, but that bug is corrected now. Fun fact: When having a computer ally, You can try asking for some resources via the chat, and the comp is likely to comply with your request... eventually, then he will ask for some resources 'back', and won't help You further unless You send some.(The formula seems to be: [Player color] would appreciate a gift of (Resource, written with a capitalised first letter)
Well that's a bit of a double-edged sword. While it's nice that my buddies and I can go into each other's castles to learn at the mage guilds, the inability to transfer ownership can be a pain. What if by luck I have several gold mines and sulfur dunes but strike out on gem ponds and crystal mines, and vice versa for him. Instead of swapping a few of our mines to balance it all out, now we have to manually balance every week or so by sending each other resources through the market? And as far as castles it's even worse. So if he ends up conquering an AI Tower, that castle is essentially locked off from me for the rest of the game, barring an AI takeover. So in order to recruit all those gremlins, mages, nagas, titans etc, I need to send him money to do it for me, and then he can meet my hero to deliver them? Ouch, that might be more hassle than it's worth. Maybe it's better to leave the 4 player colors unallied on my map and just go with the old "gentleman's agreement" where we take over each other's castles/mines with permission.
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Xyphistor
Hired Hero
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posted January 21, 2013 11:04 PM |
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Quote:
Question 6
Is there a way to set the "Week of the *" function, so I can setup when certain monsters get extra growth and random stacks on the map? I imagine it would be in map specs, but like I said I won't be working on it for a few days.
As said above, there is no way to customise the 'Week of' messages.
There is however one trick you may be able to work into your map, depending on what effect you're after...
If you build a Grail structure in an Inferno town, every week thereafter becomes a 'Week of the Imp' (and correspondingly 'Month of the Imp' too).
So you could achieve a 'swarms of imps spreading across the map' effect if you want 
I can't remember if you can do castle-based events to remove buildings as well as build them, but if you can then you have the ability to turn your Imp weeks on and off...
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VikingLegion
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 25, 2013 02:38 AM |
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^ pretty clever Xyph!
Unfortunately the storyline doesn't revolve around a daemonic invasion. But if it did, man that would've been a great idea! Thanks for the contribution anyway.
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Matthewh
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posted January 31, 2013 08:30 PM |
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Quote:
Hey all,
Long story but I'll try to keep it short. I played a ton of HOMM2 back in the day. I loved making maps, in fact I still get the occasional request from friends I haven't seen in years for a copy of an old map I made back in college.
Anyway... the point is I've recently "rediscovered" HOMM3 and have been fairly obsessed with it of late. I thought it would be cool to dust off my skills and make a continuation of my previous map, but for HOMM3 instead of 2. The editor in 3 is so much more powerful than 2, I'm having a blast playing around with everything I can edit. Unfortunately I'd like to have this map done in a few months to play with some friends, so I need to accelerate my learning curve a bit.
I've seen some incredibly creative maps hosted online, so I know you guys are out there. Any tips or tricks of the trade you've come up with that you are insanely proud of? Any pitfalls I need to look out for? I have a series of questions to ask, but I'll pose them one at a time so as not to overwhelm this first post:
Question 1
Is there any way to script the removal of a specific monster stack in a player's army? I've tried with Quests and Events (both map-placed and times), but the only categories that can be toggled from Give to Take are resources and Spell Points.
It's important in the early part of the storyline that Player 1 is confronted with a foe he has zero chance of beating. He will be rewarded (by an Event or Quest) with a stack of ~250 Phoenixes in order to take out this enemy. However I want him to lose that stack right after, as being able to retain them will seriously mess up the next stage of the story. Is this possible?
Lots of respect. Can't find the time for all this.
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 04, 2013 12:43 AM |
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I'm not sure if it helps, but there's this crazy-awesome map in Heroes II PoL called Gates of Hell.
You start off with 5 heroes in an enclosed area, blocked by a red guy with 5 stacks of 500 dragons, or phoenixes depending on which player you are. Only one of the heroes has troops that are fast enough to allow him to surrender, which is what you have to do to prevent your castle from being invaded. Eventually, that one hero has to make this crazy journey across a lake of fire to take the red town, causing the guy to vanish, releasing the other 4 heroes.
It's a bit more complex than that, but that's the gist of it. And that map was already on the game! Plenty of ideas.
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"An Elf can take out a Ranger
any day of the week, but they
prefer to do it on weekends so
they can stay up late and catch
a show afterwards." -H2 tavern
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