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| Thread: best HoMM storyline.. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted January 18, 2013 12:31 PM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 12:33, 18 Jan 2013.
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Tarnum was in HoMM4 Barbarian campaign as well )
this is where he finally got his redemption ..
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 18, 2013 12:35 PM |
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I have a feeling, that if Forge was introduced in Heroes III vanilla, it wouldn't build the games success. Heroes 3 had a perfect, stellar fantasy setting, and most of the players, except fans, didn't know of the franchise sci-fi and fantasy duality. I remember how I reacted when I saw first concepts of H3 addon with Forge screens. I asked myself "what the f*ck is that!. Only after a while I read about the franchise setting. So plot-wise it would be maybe more interesting, but imo the game would suffer from it (I don't know if I would pick up the game then, Heroes 3 was my first contact with the franchise)...
I'd be okay with the Forge faction if it didn't take creatures from other factions and made them ridiculous.
I understand it was likely a nod to Star Trek's Borg, but still.
Anyway, I'd have to go with H4.
My favorite villain next to Sandro is probably Gavin Magnus due to his complex nature.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 18, 2013 12:35 PM |
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Quote:
I have a feeling, that if Forge was introduced in Heroes III vanilla, it wouldn't build the games success. Heroes 3 had a perfect, stellar fantasy setting, and most of the players, except fans, didn't know of the franchise sci-fi and fantasy duality. I remember how I reacted when I saw first concepts of H3 addon with Forge screens. I asked myself "what the f*ck is that!. Only after a while I read about the franchise setting. So plot-wise it would be maybe more interesting, but imo the game would suffer from it (I don't know if I would pick up the game then, Heroes 3 was my first contact with the franchise)...
That's probably the case but it doesn't make the Armageddon's Blade story any better. It's just the typical "demons* invade, good guys rally to stop them and ultimately succeed" crap. In the end you don't have to be a fan of The Forge to admit that it would have made the story... unusual at the very least. In perspective, Armageddon's Blade plot is the rehearsal for what Heroes V turned into an anti-masterpiece.
*... from space.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 18, 2013 12:37 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 12:39, 18 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
Tarnum was in HoMM4 Barbarian campaign as well )
this is where he finally got his redemption ..
Hmm ... I am currently playing through Heroes 3 (select campaigns, that is), and was considering pickup up Tarnums campaigns after this again. Well, possibly after Dracon's and Adria's campaigns. And I don't know if and where I might fit in SoD (H3) and if that's even possible before SoD (H6)  .
Once I've done Tarnum's again, I *may* try and expose myself to HoMM4 again. I don't recall Tarnum's campaign there - but then again, I only played Tarnum's H3 campaigns long after I dropped H4.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 18, 2013 12:38 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 12:47, 18 Jan 2013.
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So HoMM IV NECESSARILY MUST have the best campaign stories, that comes with the game.
Mmmm, well Gathering Storm and Winds of War defy your claim. I mean we got the same game, yet non of their characters were memorable, and though I played each of those campaigns at least 2 times I don't remember most of the hero names... GS and WoW were not bad to play, but their story was just some miserable background...
@Maurice: H4 Waerjak's campaign (Tarnum included) has one of the best "moments" in the game's campaigns stories...
PS I also liked how H4 introduced new creatures in the campaigns
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 18, 2013 12:58 PM |
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That's why I picked HoMM 2, not HoMM IV; all in all, there is a lot of story in H IV, but - who cares? Not me. Sure, the stuff is more or less well written, but they had had ample opportunity to hone their writing skills, since starting with HoMM 3 many regular Maps (MP or otherwise) came with a story - there are LOTS of regular maps, even MP maps, that have a great underlying story that is absolutely fitting to the occasion, and if the poll question wasn't specifically for the CAMPAIGNS, then it was clear that HoMM 3 would be the master of the art to make ANY kind of story-driven SINGLE map, be it exclusively single player or MP.
As I said in the other thread, I don't think carryover heroes work in the non-Heroes IV environment, except for shortish campaigns with smallish maps.
That's why, imho, the Heroes II way of camapigns work best for the classic HoMM environment in the technical sense. Of course, whether you make longish campaigns for sides or shorter one for factions doesn't matter much.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 18, 2013 02:32 PM |
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That's why I picked HoMM 2, not HoMM IV; all in all, there is a lot of story in H IV, but - who cares? Not me. Sure, the stuff is more or less well written, but they had had ample opportunity to hone their writing skills, since starting with HoMM 3 many regular Maps (MP or otherwise) came with a story
I care. A good story is a good story. Sure games like Heroes would defend themselves well even without a story, but it's the story that makes many aspects of the game memorable. If I want to play a game without a story I play chess or something similar... And I don't believe experience has anything to do with how well the story is presented, it depends on how good the writer of the script is. If it was true with the experience, why did we get s*itty campaigns in both Heroes 5 and 6. Were is the experience I ask?
Quote:
As I said in the other thread, I don't think carryover heroes work in the non-Heroes IV environment, except for shortish campaigns with smallish maps.
Carryover Heroes have sense because they glue the story together. It's self explanatory. How can you make a campaign about a great dragon hunter if each map brings another hero? Well only in case the story revolves around a generation of dragon hunters. And, if not for the long campaigns, I wouldn't even get an opportunity to try a level 80 hero. Strong Hero? Give strong enemies with big armies and the fun has only just began 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 18, 2013 03:03 PM |
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Let's get this straight: H 4 has a mass of campaign stories, all n all fairly well told, but, if you take all of HoMM IV, not what you wold call great. On the other hand, to HoMM IV having way more RP elements than all other Homms and Heroes getting classes up to 100 level-ups, so loooong campaigns make a lot of sense, carryover heroes as well, and therefore longish and detailed stories are a necessity.
For the other Homms, though, carryover heroes do NOT make a lot of sense: "This hero has reached the limit of what he can get in experience on this map" is a real joykiller - all in all you just don't get enough level-ups with your carryover hero and play uselessly around. Also, the building part always have to start anew on most maps whereas in IV, technically you can play a whole map without recruiting even one creature) - that's why the Heroes II campaigns are most fun gameplay-wise.
If you combine all aspects, then Heroes IV would have been the game to go "epic" and really tell STORIES on big maps and longish campaigns, about a [advanced class] and his or her apprentice, whatever, since you can even tell the story of more than one hero in one campaign.
The other homms, however, are limited by the general level-up max for a hero: it makes sense for a carryover-hero campaign to limit scope (number and size of maps) to the level-out XP, so that the campaign would be finished once the hero is maxed-out. YOu can lengthen things, by having more than one carryover-hero in one campaign.
But if you want to have looooong campaigns, they should avoid carryover heroes and do it like it was in HoMM 2.
Not every HoMM is equally well suited for everything here.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted January 18, 2013 03:19 PM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 15:22, 18 Jan 2013.
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Heroes V itself wasnt bad at all!
on ToE it was actually great in some aspects!
but the horrible story, childish interface
made the impression much worse
that it could achieve!
Heroes VI doesnt stand comparison with Heroes V
in majority of things..!
@J Joker
why should one exclude other?
could be a great game with great story! dont you think?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 18, 2013 03:28 PM |
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knowing that u are interested in plot of HoMM and M&M series
would strongly advice you to try it!
well if u dislike the HoMM4 that much ,
at least u can read the campaign story
(have seen in somewhere in web)
its totally worth it! campaign story is a one of the best for HOMM
I belive that the stories are good, or even great, but the Axeoth part of the saga never got my attention due to game mechanics, Both H IV and MaM IX were hard for me to enjoy. I started MaM IX several times, never got to far in them.
I have similar feelings here. When HIV came out, I remenber that I played A LOT for 3 years or so. Then, I didn't played it for several years and every time I tried to play it again I simply couldn't play more than 10-15 turns...the mechanics feels so out of a classic HoM&M 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 18, 2013 03:52 PM |
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@J Joker
why should one exclude other?
could be a great game with great story! dont you think?
Well - no, actually. Or, better, well, not at any cost, actually.
I mean, great stories don't grow on trees anyway, do they? Could you transfer Song of Ice and Fire to HoMM? Most certainly - but the story in all its gory glory? I don't think so. Might be, if you adapted it for HoMM, it might even be cheesy.
With HoMM being a strategy game, GAMEPLAY is most important. If you have that nailed, you can start thinking about campaigns and what would be suitable. Unfortunately, though, with all the effort in 5 and 6, spoken dialogues, cutscenes and the like, work on the campaigns - including script/story - have to start basically day 1.
See the problem there?
In my mind, STORY is something for adventure and to a lesser, but still important extent role playing games. Not for strategy games. The game is story enough. Now, HoMM being a hybrid game, SOME SORT of story doesn't hurt, considering the title HEROES of M&M: fleshing out those Heroes with stories makes sense - however, in HoMM it's not the CAMPAIGN that shines or stars, it's the REPLAYABILITY. How often do you read one and the same book or watch a movie?
So with HoMM STORY is pure and sheer ICING on a cake that must be tasty without the icing, otherwise it sucks as a game.
That means, story should be okay (support gameplay, help create characters), but technically (voiceover, cutscenes) kept to a bare minimum, because in the long run the money spent on it is wasted.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 18, 2013 05:32 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 17:36, 18 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
In my mind, STORY is something for adventure and to a lesser, but still important extent role playing games. Not for strategy games. The game is story enough. Now, HoMM being a hybrid game, SOME SORT of story doesn't hurt, considering the title HEROES of M&M: fleshing out those Heroes with stories makes sense - however, in HoMM it's not the CAMPAIGN that shines or stars, it's the REPLAYABILITY. How often do you read one and the same book or watch a movie?
I get your point but whats the sense of making newer Heroes games then. If those wouldn't be distinguished by story, characters etc whats the point of making newer Heroes games? I know, new game mechanics, new strategic possibilities etc. But imo it's the combination of story, which makes us like or dislike this "new" setting, and the game mechanics what makes a game. First you must like a game for it's setting. After that you will likely play it in SP or MP, because it's memorable. Introducing new mechanics or units can keep you hooked even if there's no story at all but that is not how it works in my case. I must "feel" the game, it must have some "meat" if you know what I mean. How Ubi handles story-telling is another thing though  . They practically had two chances already and they didn't quite deliver both in terms of story and gameplay.
@Dave_Jame
To tell you the truth, I hated H4 in the beginning, because they destroyed my favorite world, which I was very fond of. They took some of my favorite creatures and factions and made "ugly" abominations like the Behemoth for instance. I thought it was a step back. You could say that Heroes 4 is a step back from Heroes 3 as a continuation, but as a separate game, I really like it. The point is, I didn't quite treat H4 as a continuation of H3. I treated it like a different game entirely, that is only based on H3 mechanics. Only after I played the game a couple of times it really came to my liking.
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esvath
Known Hero
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posted January 18, 2013 05:37 PM |
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Overall best story : HoMM III. I love all campaigns in vanilla or the expansions.
Honorable mention: HoMM IV Emilia, Gauldoth, Tawni and Elwin.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 18, 2013 08:45 PM |
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I get your point but whats the sense of making newer Heroes games then. If those wouldn't be distinguished by story, characters etc whats the point of making newer Heroes games? I know, new game mechanics, new strategic possibilities etc. But imo it's the combination of story, which makes us like or dislike this "new" setting, and the game mechanics what makes a game. First you must like a game for it's setting. After that you will likely play it in SP or MP, because it's memorable. Introducing new mechanics or units can keep you hooked even if there's no story at all but that is not how it works in my case. I must "feel" the game, it must have some "meat" if you know what I mean. How Ubi handles story-telling is another thing though . They practically had two chances already and they didn't quite deliver both in terms of story and gameplay.
This time it's me who gets your point - it's just that I think that with HoMM it's the factions more than everything else that radiate and transmit the feeling of the game, which is good because that fits well to gameplay feeling.
What IS bothering me - I already wrote that - is that the game started quite cartoony; light-hearted. Most say they liked H 3's move to maturity, but in my opinion H 3 was the exploring maturity to the outer limit of what was good for the game. H IV made the mistake of "maturing" things further by letting the good old world die.
Ashan simply went into the wrong direction - it's too mature, too seriously. They could have made the BDSM Dungeon of HoMM 5 alright - if they had made it more cartoony, satirical ... funny. Not so darn serious- The problem is, that starting with HoMM IV they STRUGGLE with the game. It's not soaring anymore, it TRIES to desperately. That's true for the stories as well.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted January 18, 2013 08:54 PM |
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As others have stated, Heroes 4 blows the competition away.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted January 18, 2013 11:48 PM |
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As others have stated, Heroes 4 blows the competition away.
This. When a video game makes you laugh out loud and then the next minute builds up tension that almost makes you cry, something is being done right.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted January 19, 2013 12:24 AM |
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I have to pick Heroes 4, of course.
while I would say there were actually some good core ideas in the plot of Heroes 6, the contrived family drama wasn't necessary (in fact it was totally implausible), the voice acting was so bad, the presentation was a mess, and total failure on Ubi's part to handle any serious themes in an appropriate way. I was definitely laughing and crying at this story, but for all the wrong reasons.
with a really big edit you could probably turn the redeeming value from that game storyline into something very good, but otherwise a huge missed opportunity from Ubi's hack writers (yet again).
Heroes 1 did not have a story, Heroes 2 was great but not the best of the six games, and Heroes 5 was unquestionably the worst, a putrid, sickening disgrace
Heroes 4 got absolutely everything right in terms of the plot and writing, even despite no cutscenes and the questionable gameplay. I really wish we could have had stories like those in a game on par with H3, would be a perfect Heroes experience. I also miss the simpler war game tone of the scenario in Heroes 2. The mission briefings felt more militaristic than anything since which helped to ground the fantasy world and make it feel believable.
Heroes 3 plot was not always as amazing or well developed, but the Armageddon's Blade campaign was gold, and the standard of the writing stayed way, way better than anything Ubisoft has put out.. even a simple cutscene opening or mission description from Heroes 3 tended to have better form and vocabulary than mostly anything in the Ubi games.
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dkolb
Promising
Known Hero
Nay Nay and Aslan Protector
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posted January 20, 2013 08:30 AM |
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Homm6 I think it is a huge improvement over homm5 but it tried to get too cute for it's own good.
I think there was more of a "purity" in the stories of H3.
It just seems like the good and evil were more black and white. The Castle, Rampart, and Tower were good; the Inferno, Necropolis, and Dungeon were bad and the Stronghold and Fortress were somewhere in between. It was simple but also very enjoyable. It was what made Armageddon's Blade so fun and Sandro stole the show in Shadow of Death probably cementing himself as the most memorable and awesome villian in the entire series.
Since H5 there is this weird dualistic nature in all of the towns that I don't like that seems to make all of them a morally grey ambigious lump. Adding some complexity (Like in the Gauldoth Half-Dead campaign) is fine but it has gotten to the point where you really don't know who is good and evil, which makes you care less about the characters. As one of the previous posters mentioned the themes of h6 could have made for a decent story but in the end they fall flat.
This is what I mean by a confused narrative:
The castle is filled with either crazed zealots and inquisitors, corrupt lords or in the case of the H6 angels outright evil hypocrites.
The Nagas are supposed to be honorable but despise every other culture and I believe in one of the campaigns try to use Orcs as slaves.
The Necromancers raise dead bodies but have very complex semi-rational philosophic feelings about why they have armies of skeletons
The Demons are madness and evil incarnate but seem like they are pretty nice fellas and are making jokes so far in the campaign I'm playing. Also believe in true individual freedom yet are imprisoned
The Orcs are both completely savage and yet oppressed slaves we are supposed to feel sorry for.
And the upcoming Dark-Elves oh won't they be a treat with their BDSM minotaurs, and their obsession with with everything about them being purple. I'm so glad we will have more more adventures with these cartoonish World of Warcraft inspired dark elves instead of the awesome Warlocks and Overlords from Homm 2/3.
It is a complete mess! As stereotypical as Good vs. Evil is, it really works for games like this. H5 and H6 have just perverted and twisted everything and it isn't better storytelling it is just stereotypical world full of gray storytelling that doesn't suit the HOMM world in my opinion.
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"...once you bought your first green dragon, there was already a necromancer with six or seven boners out and about-Lord_Wook"
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 20, 2013 09:37 PM |
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I agree so much with you, dkolb...making all factions "grey" it gets to the point that feels stupid
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 20, 2013 11:05 PM |
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I rather like it....
Nothings is only black and white...
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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