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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Best town without equilibris?
Thread: Best town without equilibris? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
Pangu
Pangu

Tavern Dweller
posted January 22, 2013 01:08 AM

Best town without equilibris?

Hi everyone! I've been searching for the answer for many days but haven't found one. I realize that not many people play HoMM4 anymore or play it without equilibris. However I'd like to hear some facts, which one is the best town? Why? Best hero? Best creatures in the best town? I have the complete edition and have never played online, only with friends. For many years we've been trying to figure out the answer but for us, the game feels pretty balanced even though it's officially considered as a half-developed game.
My favorite town is Order, genies titans and magi are a great combination, not to mention order magic.

Thanks for your answers in advance.

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Galileo
Galileo


Known Hero
posted January 22, 2013 11:07 AM

Well, I'd say asylum is the best town because of medusas, nightmares, black dragons and powerful damage spells. However, nature is also very powerful- faerie dragons can cast devastating spells, creature portal offers one more creature to recruit in town (!) and nature magic can summon any nature creature. Other nature spells are also very useful (anti-magic, dragon strength, quicksand...).
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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
Legit Karate champ. Totally.
posted January 22, 2013 11:22 AM

Been a long time since I played, but the obvious answer is Necro. Vampires are crazy OP, Necromancy ditto, the low-level stacks are almost as fast as heroes, and the army in general is very mobile, the Undead come with all sorts of nice immunities, and even without shooters(Venom Spawn is not worth choosing) sieges are easy to handle(3 flyer/teleporter troops)...
Best Hero class? I'm gonna go with Demonologist, hard to get but so worth it! Mid to late game summons can take care of almost everything, Vamps mop up the rest, and your army just keeps growing...
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 22, 2013 11:37 AM

Yeah. Death. Those Vampires are not managable.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted January 22, 2013 12:13 PM

Death, vampires simply are OP
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Da_venom
Da_venom


Hired Hero
posted January 22, 2013 02:22 PM

all of the answers above are useless

as for what the best town is depends on how big the map is

necro is best on big maps (once u get necromancy) u get free vamps everytime and there is no single town that can outproduce the strenght of the vampires

on small maps however you won't get the chance to get big with necro and u will get steamrolled by massive numbers of the other towns


all towns have their strenghts and weaknesses

but

on large to xl maps Undead is prolly best town (with  a hero that got tactics>for fast speed and extra movement to make vampires better)

other town that is also very good in xl maps is might
If u get very lucky with a hero that gets nobility(max it)

breeding pens + GM nobility is a MASSIVE production of units
just think about a big stack of harpies+combined with cyclopses now also get your hero tactics and your cyclopses will ussualy rape 2-3 stacks in one throw(even vampires have a hard time against this)




on small to medium maps i would say asylum even in small stacks medusas are deadly due to their stone gaze they are prolly one of the best hero killers

order is also a strong contender with the genies


weakest town in my opinion is nature


on any given map
You are forced to use tigers unless u want to wait for a massive amount of wood to get archers wich aren't that good their waspwort is pretty nice but u cut heavily on movement on map so not that great to have
the only big bonus is their second level 4 creature the mantis
only town who can spawn 2 level 4 creatures but then again seeing how weak they are they need it very badly


the other weak one is life
doesn't have alot of strong creatures and they have low HP

and they need their buff so badly to get a bit decent



as for best hero

depends on what u want to do

if u use alot of melee/big damage dealing creatures obvisouly a hero with tactics is best


if u want to move fast and steal all a thief is very  good to have


if u want to buff or summon a magic caster is good to have that all depends on situations

and if u want  a massive spawn nobility is your choice




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scythesong
scythesong


Adventuring Hero
posted January 23, 2013 03:19 AM
Edited by scythesong at 03:43, 23 Jan 2013.

It depends. As above, factors like map size are important. Availability of resources is important for some factions, like Order. Ultimately though, how strong a town is depends on your choice of heroes and how you manage them.
Nature, for example, has Druids and Archers. Both hero types are a strong presence in the battlefield from the get-go. Bring a second Druid and with the Summoning -skill- you suddenly have your own steady supply of meatshields. With summoning -spells- two druids casting the same spell over and over can create a single, large stack of units very quickly (more than is possible via normal production early on) which is perfect for creeping. These heroes generally do not rely on having a large amount of reinforcements from their town. Wood costs only slow production (you can simply trade gold/ore/rare resources for wood) and there's a reason for it - by building the Ranger's Guild, the implication is that you are dedicating extra effort to developing your heroes.
Nature also has access to both Life and Chaos heroes. Access to Life heroes means free Tactics. Access to Chaos means Sorcerers, the most powerful early-mid game units in the game. If you get Cat's Reflexes then you're looking at double attacks from Phoenixes, Mantises, Elves (4 attacks total), etc.

In the end the only faction that (always) plays almost exactly the same way is Death, since although it is allied with Order and Chaos you can't exactly use Order and Chaos heroes with undead troops (massive penalties). This makes Death predictable, which is nonfactor against AI but important to consider when facing against human players. Death is vulnerable to early-mid game harassment, and I've fought against players smart enough to try well-executed kamikaze tactics (pun intended) against my army's Death Knight. No Death Knight = no Tactics skill. When that happens, even vampires can fall easily.

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Pangu
Pangu

Tavern Dweller
posted January 24, 2013 10:50 PM
Edited by Pangu at 22:53, 24 Jan 2013.

Thanks for the elaborate answers.
To be honest I was expecting completely different answers. Death was my favorite in HoMM3 beacause my turtling playstyle benefited a great deal from necromancy and my army grew continuously. In this game i just couldn't get the hang of it.

And nature? I'm not going to argue because you would easily beat me anytime and i do believe you, it just surprises me. Might too that's my least favorite town.

So Death isn't as strong as it was in HoMM3? Generally on a completely random map who'd be in a bigger advantage? Death, nature or might? Or someone else? Death gets stronger as the map grows i do understand that but on which map size does it become unbeatable?

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Gauldoth_IV
Gauldoth_IV


Adventuring Hero
nobody
posted January 25, 2013 01:55 AM

I think in original pack, Death and Order are two most powerful town, then in the small map Chaos maybe better, but Chaos high damage magic some how will be negated according to those anti-magic spells and skills.
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Da_venom
Da_venom


Hired Hero
posted January 25, 2013 08:38 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the elaborate answers.
To be honest I was expecting completely different answers. Death was my favorite in HoMM3 beacause my turtling playstyle benefited a great deal from necromancy and my army grew continuously. In this game i just couldn't get the hang of it.

And nature? I'm not going to argue because you would easily beat me anytime and i do believe you, it just surprises me. Might too that's my least favorite town.

So Death isn't as strong as it was in HoMM3? Generally on a completely random map who'd be in a bigger advantage? Death, nature or might? Or someone else? Death gets stronger as the map grows i do understand that but on which map size does it become unbeatable?


Like i said it just depends on map size

Death is very weak in beginning and get's decent in mid game

other towns have a big advantage then since death mostly relies on vampires if anything

a death town without vampires it easily steamrolled and u can do this on small maps and medium maps with easy timings

before the vampires get too big

but on a random medium map

i would say might easily steamrolls nature and death


the production of might and their strong heroes can easily creep


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scythesong
scythesong


Adventuring Hero
posted January 26, 2013 12:08 AM
Edited by scythesong at 15:26, 26 Jan 2013.

As Da_venom said Death has a very good chance of winning end-game if you meet all your developmental goals.

To summarize from Da_venom's post above, your goal as the player is to:

a) get Vampires asap
b) max Necromancy as quickly as possible
c) get at least two heroes - one a Necromancer, the other a Death Knight with Tactics. Make sure to give them Combat when it pops up - try to max the Combat Skill itself if you can but your priority should be Tactics (Death Knight) and Necromancy (Necromancer)
d) make the proper judgment calls when it comes to dealing with anything that would jeopardize the previous three
e) once the previous four are done, go an a rampage and kill as many things as you can so you can raise a formidable vampire army

Death's playstyle actually hasn't changed much since HOMM3 if you think about it in the very basic sense - early-mid game you have to make do with Skeletons/Imps/Ghosts/Cerberi and two very squishy heroes. Your Necromancer can out help a bit with Curse and Poison (which won't be doing that much damage at first since you'll be focusing on Necromancy) but the rest is tactical combat/waiting (ie turtling). I'd get Combat on the Death Knight asap, so he becomes marginally useful as a meatshield at least.

Nature has at least three different playstyles (from any combination of plain nature, life/nature and chaos/nature heroes) but at least two of them are hero-centric, which means they focus on developing your heroes (usually 2-3) as powerful battlefield units from the get-go, unlike the previously mentioned Necromancer and Death Knight. While there's not much point having multiple Necromancers/Death Knights - in fact, it might damage your main Necromancer's/Death Knight's XP progression (XP is split) having 3 martial heroes can be like having 3 particularly powerful unit stacks.

I'm not surprised that the factions you seem to have trouble with are the ones which are the most different from the HOMM3 ones. Nature and Might may have pixies, faerie dragons, phoenixes, centaurs and cyclopes and may remind you of the Ramparts/Conflux/Barbarian towns, but make no mistake - the heroes of these factions also count as a very important "town unit" and you are expected to treat and develop them as such - this is an important part of the towns' design. Early game most heroes like Necromancers and Death Knights are mostly just figureheads or passable meatshields. Nature and Might's Druids, Archers and Barbarians, among a few others like Chaos's Sorcerers and Order's Mages, are different in that they are expected to actively try and influence the battlefield around them - and they are expected to become much, much better at it with levels.

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Da_venom
Da_venom


Hired Hero
posted January 26, 2013 08:16 PM

funny thing is this game is so old that you should already know everything about it

yet there are people who don't know even the basics

and what route heroes and or towns should travel in progression

this game is like advanced chess

u have to memorise the moves u make and also remember what your enemy does

and time stuff so u get the fast upperhand


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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted September 07, 2013 08:00 PM

Death. By a lot. Actually, when I played back then, I think Death was usually banned.

Vampires from necromancy. Or just build by D3 or so.
Death Knight access from D1.
Pathfinder access from D1.
Imps are great scouts.
Mass Cancellation.

If you add those up, that's usually just way too much. Way too much on short map, way too much on medium map, way too much on big map.

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Yes, I play the game only on the forums.

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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted September 07, 2013 10:54 PM

csarmi said:
Death. By a lot. Actually, when I played back then, I think Death was usually banned.

Vampires from necromancy. Or just build by D3 or so.
Death Knight access from D1.
Pathfinder access from D1.
Imps are great scouts.
Mass Cancellation.

If you add those up, that's usually just way too much. Way too much on short map, way too much on medium map, way too much on big map.



Yes I can see that you play the games only on the forums...

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 08, 2013 12:34 AM

Please don't be rude.
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Living time backwards

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted September 08, 2013 06:22 AM

Brennus, I don't follow you - what do you mean?
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Yes, I play the game only on the forums.

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Alaksandu
Alaksandu

Tavern Dweller
posted September 08, 2013 08:26 PM

In my opinion, the best town is definitely: ... Random

Preferring one specific town/alignment/strategy (e.g. Death) seems to me quite boring. I play the game for fun, so the best town in the game is the one that is most enjoyable, i.e. random. Utilizing the game's balance, complexity, and richness by using a different strategy in each game, depending on the circumstances, without having to choose your faction in advance, and without knowing where or what your opponents are, yes, that's the way I like to play. Hence the best town is random.

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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted September 20, 2013 08:38 AM

csarmi said:
Brennus, I don't follow you - what do you mean?


Do not be offended. I am always saying that active online players should be more respected in such things  than theorists who in the comfort of their homes  crash computer hundreds times.

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 20, 2013 03:10 PM

Should be remember different strength example for Steinitz, Capablanca and Fischer. When player learn other style, later on player make change of style. Learner can't understand why or know what's a true. Capablaca was shown games were wrong so it need also match.
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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted September 20, 2013 05:28 PM

Ghost said:
Should be remember different strength example for Steinitz, Capablanca and Fischer. When player learn other style, later on player make change of style. Learner can't understand why or know what's a true. Capablaca was shown games were wrong so it need also match.


I always preferred Alechin' style

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