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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2016 09:02 AM |
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Okay, Stevie, yogi, I'd like an update here.
Shall we go again on a map for 3 guys? In this case I'll set the map up.
Or don't you, Stevie?
In this case I'll set up two separate maps, one for Stevie and me, one for yogi and me.
In case we play, check your PMs.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2016 02:25 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 14:26, 07 Feb 2016.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2016 02:35 PM |
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Ok, then,
Yogi, I'll set up a map, then. I'll write you a PM for details.
Stevie, if you want to try it anytime, tell me.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 07, 2016 09:12 PM |
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So, I played a couple of missions in the campaign in order to try to get an understanding of the game. On the basic level, I like the game - I mean, it's a combination of Heroes with some parts of Civilization, how could I *not* like it?
When that's said, there are some things I need to warm up to. First off, I must admit I find combat situations a bit tiresome and have a tendency to pick auto-combat instead. I think this is partially because there are many things I don't fully understand about combat yet, but ... larger combats, particularly sieges, seem to get really tiresome for me.
The unit system confuses me big time! The campaign was an Elven Rogue (I think?), and there were so many different units I could build - and no good overview over their different properties anywhere! Also there didn't seem to be any clear correlation between unit level and unit usefulness - my Longbowmen (level 1 unit) seemed to do significantly more damage than another ranged unit (some sort of Monster Hunter) that was level 2 that joined my army.
The army system definitely also needs some time to get used to - when coming from heroes with stacks, it's very strange only to have one unit in each "stack". This makes it very hard for me to establish how valuable each unit is - this is closer to Civ5, where generally I will never want to use a unit, whereas in Heroes, normally using some units (although as few as possible) is acceptable in order to gain a benefit.
Anyway, I have a couple of questions, maybe some of you can answer this for me:
- What is the best approach to army composition: Many different units or many of the same (stronger) units?
- Should I mix racial and class units or is this a bad idea?
- Are losing units acceptable, or should I always try to preserve all units?
- Any good guides to how to best do combat?
- Are there any buildings that provide gold? I seem to have a problem managing my economy, but maybe this is because I don't understand the system.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2016 09:35 PM |
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I'll try to give you an intrduction tomorrow, probably PM.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 07, 2016 09:37 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 21:40, 07 Feb 2016.
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I'm just as much as a noob than you are but I can at least answer one question without doubt:
alcibiades said:
- Are losing units acceptable, or should I always try to preserve all units?
Units gain experience, so is better not to loose them.
I'm also interested on the answers from your other questions.
@JJ:
What the hell PM? Make a sweet guide for beginners dude. 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2016 09:58 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 21:59, 07 Feb 2016.
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How about you all read the wiki for info and also the forums for tactics like I did? I know it's not fun to get blasted with so much information right from the get-go, but it certainly improves your understanding of the game. When you need to plan your strategic approach, you'll have to learn what the game has in store for you.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 07, 2016 10:07 PM |
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Stevie said:
How about you all read the wiki for info and also the forums for tactics like I did?
Nah, I prefer to play and discover while playing like I'm doing right now, but I wouldn't mind reading an introduction by JJ as complementary info.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 07, 2016 10:38 PM |
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Well, you have to know what the game is all about - for example, how damage is calculated:
Damage = (damage + 10) - (Defense or Resistance) +- 25%.
Each damage channel counts. Physical damage counts against defense; magic (blight, spirit, shock, fire, cold) damage against Resistance.
So, if you have a unit doing 13 Physical + 2 spirit damage against a unit with 11 defense and 9 resistance it will do 9-15 physical + 2-4 spirit PER HIT.
It's true, with units collecting experience and getting benefits from it, the more experience a unit has, the less you want it to die. Each single unit is important.
I can try to put something down here, of course.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 07, 2016 10:46 PM |
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I did do some reading - problem is with zero experience with the game, there's only so much you can understand from the reading. However, going back to the sources now after some gameplay, I did understand some more than before.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted February 07, 2016 11:13 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 23:19, 07 Feb 2016.
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Well, I bought a very nice special edition that had those nifty physcial booklet guides which helped me get into the game. If I remember correctly there's also an in-game encyclopedia which covers some basics and can be helpful in understanding the mechanics. Keep in mind though, I also learned the game having almost zero expierience with the series (I only touched AoW II demo for a short run).
True, the game is confusing at the begining, there's so much to digest. But the more you guys will play it, the more you'll see how it all makes sense and how good the game is put together. It's not perfect, but devs put a lot of work to make it as polished as possible (I remember many balance patches released on a regular basis when I played the game some time ago, and devs almost imidiately responeded to player sugesstions etc). I also remember various "startegy" threads on forums which show that the game is deep...
PS: I also auto-played some battles and only took the reins for those more interesting ones. The game is like Heroes in that manner, some repetetive battles may become less interesting in time.
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted February 08, 2016 03:43 AM |
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2016 07:58 AM |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 08, 2016 08:20 AM |
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Stevie said:
Friendly reminder: do NOT wear any headphones when a city is razed.
 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2016 09:39 AM |
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A couple of general hints on how to do combat:
Units are much stronger when on guard (that is, when they didn't attack something). Guard gives additional defense, plus, you cannot be flanked (except when attacked by a unit having "Guard Breaker" ability, and except for a couple of units with abilities to do something and still be on guard, like "pounce"). Also, you have only 3 action points in a full turn.
At the beginning of a fight the AI may opt to wait for you which can be awkward, especially against units with disabling abilities (Wisps, Spiders). Especially dangerous are those with the Phase ability. You can simply click on an enemy unit, then the game shows the movement range. Clicking on any ability of them shows the range of it, which may help (but in case of Phase you have to add a hex, due to the fact that they can move 1 hex without using up an action point).
The AI is hellbent on killing units and will mercilessly take advantage of any opening you give it; it also has favorites in terms of attack priority. So what's important is to not put out units in the cold. Battling rules are very different from Heroes: once a unit is engaged, it still CAN move, but adjacent enemy units will usually opportunity hit with flanking bonus. You will try to inhibit enemy units by engaging them this way, but there is a nasty ability you must keep an eye on, and that's Sprint, which allows to disengage avoiding opportunity hits. Scoundrels are typical in that regard - if you don't kill them, they can disengage and shoot you in the back.
Also, there are some stone/paper/scissor things to keep in mind. You have 6 troop types (Irregular, Archer, Infantry, Pikeman, Cavalry and Support). Usually, Infantry is pretty good against ranged attacks (Shield, Projectile Resistance) and against Pikemen (Overwhelm), Cavalry is good against Inf and Archers (Charge), while Pikemen kill Cavalry (First Strike, Polearm). Which answers your question about mixed troops. Yes, mixed troops are a good idea (also, the threat of the Cardinal Culling tech of the Grey Guard spec supports this as well).
Mixing Class and Race units is also a good idea. As a rule, Class units offer are the foundation of your class. For example, when you play Arch Druid, Hunters and Shamans (Archer and Support) offer increased mobility compared with their racial counterparts and additional abilities geared to work with animals which you will summon and Befriend as an Arch Druid. When you play Sorcerer, Apprentices are really heavy support units that can mend your Summons (especially Phantasm Warriors).
You will also have to keep an eye on vulnerabilities and resistancies. There are 6 different kinds of damage and you have to watch out for bad matches. For example, Goblins as a race have some Blight immunity and also do a lot of Blight damage. If you play a Goblin Rogue, your Class specifics will strengthen the Blight part (poison). While that is quite effective against some things, it's quite awkward against others. For example, attacking a Tomb with the Goblin Rogue forces is a bad idea much longer than for other combos, because undead are 100% immune against Blight (as are machines, but for those the Rogue has Sabotage), so that leaves only the physical part to deal with them which can be awkward.
It is advisable to really look at the specifics of your units and of the enemy units - it also pays to have a look at their medals (what you get when they are upgraded).
Then there is building. You can produce more Gold (by doing nothing; in that case a town produces +50% gold). Otherwise, it's advisable to look at the structures in a potential town radius. Apart of Forges, Goldmines, mana nodes and Farms, which are the bread and butter there are others, that not only give something like gold, research, mana or production, but enable a unique building that will generally boost unit types. A very common and the easiest to beat structure, Ancient Ruins, for example, allow the building of a structure named Pillar of the Stylites that will boost all Pikemen produced in that town with an additional 2 Spirit damage (and something for their defense). While this is quite cool for all Pikemen, it's of course especially cool for the races with better Pikemen and of course Warlords.
Playing Elves as a race, you can boost both your Storm Sisters and Longbowmen with your racial governance. Producing Storm Sisters in a town with the special building that Arcane Libraries give and Longbowmen in a town with a Focus Chamber will boost them so massively.
So take your time. Look things up. Try to get a feel for things. Don't switch wildly between classes and races. Pick a combination you like and delve into it, then, when you got the hang, switch to something different. The game is very gratifying when you know what you are doing.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2016 10:01 AM |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 08, 2016 02:39 PM |
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yogi said:
Galaad, join JJ and i?
Thanks for the invit man, but atm I am more into the "discovering the game" phase rather than the "getting my butt kicked online" one.
JollyJoker said:
A couple of general hints on how to do combat:
Thanks
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2016 03:10 PM |
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It's a lot about learning by hurtful mistakes. For example, ranged abilities. Short range is 3 hexes, medium 5, long 7 hexes.
Draconian Flamers (and some of their shooting class units) have the Fire Bomb attack with medium range, that is, 5 hexes. However, the attack creates splash damage to all units adjacent to the targeted hex - and you can also target an empty hex, making range actually 6 hexes. There are also some very dangerous abilities that work on short range - convert, for example. Charm as well. HURL Net (as opposed to THROW net).
With so many different units with tons of abilities you can forget learning them by heart - you'll have to look them up. And it's difficult to bear some things in mind.
Orcs look rather good - I mean, they get +10 Health after a victorious battle, they have the War Cry ability, allowing them to boost damage, when they need it and they start with 5 more HPs than everyone else - but they also start with -1 Resistance and -1 ranged as a racial trait, which means a) they will have to do a lot more in melee than everyone else, b) they are really vulnerable against everything that checks against resistance, so as brutal as an Orcish Black Knight is, he starts out with a meagre resistance of 8, and that means not only the guy will take a lot of damage from units with a magic component, they are also very vulnerable against mind-controlling attacks.
That said, Orcs are fun, because battles involving them are like they should be - they suck with arrows, are brutal in melee, magic can really screw them up, but victory makes them very happy.
Dwarves are more or less the exact opposite. Really good in soaking stuff up and grinding you down.
Which means, an Orcish Warlord plays different than a Dwarven one (or any other, in fact). While an Orcish Warlord will also play very different from any other Orcish class. With 63 combos available, that mkes for a lot to discover.
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted February 08, 2016 07:43 PM |
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Galaad said:
yogi said:
Galaad, join JJ and i?
Thanks for the invit man, but atm I am more into the "discovering the game" phase rather than the "getting my butt kicked online" one.
although i play a lot of strategy games, i actually still consider myself to be an aow padawan too, thats why we're playing by email and on the same team.
i wouldnt be surprised if jj had to rescue me.
the more the merrier, *shrugs 
____________
yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 08, 2016 08:18 PM |
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We do NOT play in the same team!
We play as separate teams with a 2-player AI-team as third.
Doesn't mean we can nail the AI first, though, but that depends.
I think, I'm good in this game, but not very good or exceptional, by the way.
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This thread is pages long: 
