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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: TEW IV Commodus' Revenge
Thread: TEW IV Commodus' Revenge This Popular Thread is 109 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 20 40 60 80 100 ... 105 106 107 108 109 · «PREV / NEXT»
wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 09, 2022 10:45 AM

MoS

Hi! I've been playing MoS (Hell), and so far it was a lot of fun. It's very short on mithril comparing to MoW, but so much faster than MoW and requires less micromanagement to achieve the speed when compared to MoE. MoE is faster, but requires a lot of micromanagement for that, which takes out the fun to me.

I've beaten Josephine and Piquedram by 327, which is more than 6 weeks faster than I did on MoW (which was fast to my standard), and it's my first time playing MoS Have to rush forward as fast as possible to occupy my sidekicks with CBs, and it doesn't help all that well
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 09, 2022 11:11 AM

MoS gets advantage when water mastery is unlocked, as then every additional CB (that turn) will give +2 mithril. And there are tons of water CB to be taken in one turn.

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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 09, 2022 11:49 AM

Salamandre said:
MoS gets advantage when water mastery is unlocked, as then every additional CB (that turn) will give +2 mithril. And there are tons of water CB to be taken in one turn.


Yes, the only problem is that progress-wise it's unlocked much later than for other factions And you still have to progress until then I do exploit the +2 bonus as much as I can, and I unlocked the water bonus and milked it a little bit too. I didn't have many CBs to clear though after it was unlocked. My CBs reset is happening next day, I'll be heading for Galthran on 331, and I hope to get great deal of mithril from CBs for that. This fight is going to test my damage output, and some additional mithril may help rectifying it.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 09, 2022 01:44 PM

Look, my approach is that end game day should not be the ultimate goal. It wasn't mine when I imagined the 4 factions, but how to diversify game play and offer another angle for each. Funny enough, while MoS was expected to be first finishing, tests gave MoE first because of teleporters.

Then of course MoW is for lazy and narcissistic people, get mithril from thin air then convert 50 towns to inferno and become ultimate god.

So imo shouldn't be ranked on who finish first pattern, anyway it wasn't my design.

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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 09, 2022 02:27 PM
Edited by wasilix2 at 14:28, 09 Sep 2022.

Salamandre said:
Look, my approach is that end game day should not be the ultimate goal. It wasn't mine when I imagined the 4 factions, but how to diversify game play and offer another angle for each. Funny enough, while MoS was expected to be first finishing, tests gave MoE first because of teleporters.

Then of course MoW is for lazy and narcissistic people, get mithril from thin air then convert 50 towns to inferno and become ultimate god.

So imo shouldn't be ranked on who finish first pattern, anyway it wasn't my design.


I appreciate it, and I didn't mean to complain about anything or compare factions as in "who's better", but rather compared their relative speed. The diversity of this map is outstanding. I don't really feel bad about MoW being slower than everyone else, I just get to know different sides/factions of your wonderful map, and I wanted to share some thoughts about it, nothing more than that

My point would also serve to point, that when speaking of finish speed, each faction should be viewed separately due to their vast differences.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 09, 2022 04:00 PM

And I really appreciate your comments, I am flattered when someone puts some work into describing or playing my maps, given how much work I already put in.

Just one suggestion, don't cut sound in your videos, is a pity.  

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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 09, 2022 06:36 PM

Salamandre said:
And I really appreciate your comments, I am flattered when someone puts some work into describing or playing my maps, given how much work I already put in.

Just one suggestion, don't cut sound in your videos, is a pity.  


Thanks! I didn't even realize that there is no game sound in MoW videos...

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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 09, 2022 09:48 PM

Salamandre said:
MoS gets advantage when water mastery is unlocked, as then every additional CB (that turn) will give +2 mithril. And there are tons of water CB to be taken in one turn.


I decided to record a video of that, because it is awesome Until now, I've been thinking about doing something like that, but never actually considered the exact impact it may have. Even much better results would be if I started at the water east from 4th town - there are many CBs, and place where I started is way too close to a town, so I could easily fit this body of water in at any point of the turn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV8hGvw1U5U
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 09, 2022 10:11 PM

Yeah, using the oasis you can basically get infinite run that turn (tested?), as the program stores movement when get in boat then restores when land.

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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 09, 2022 10:29 PM

Salamandre said:
Yeah, using the oasis you can basically get infinite run that turn (tested?), as the program stores movement when get in boat then restores when land.


Not infinite, but it allows increasing movement points if oasis is nearby. The problem is that you don't have enough fight options close to an oasis to turn it into infinity, but the area near Serena allows gaining around 2000 movement points even accounting for the points you have to spend to get into water.

Although maybe I just don't understand your idea.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 09, 2022 10:34 PM

Never mind, I forgot the movement is increased until next fight, I get rusty. Was into the wrong idea that every time you land you can get the bonus. My bad.

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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 10, 2022 07:12 AM

Salamandre said:
Never mind, I forgot the movement is increased until next fight, I get rusty. Was into the wrong idea that every time you land you can get the bonus. My bad.


That's ok! Happens even to the best of us
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Mures_ro
Mures_ro

Tavern Dweller
posted September 13, 2022 04:24 PM

wasilix2 said:
Salamandre said:
Never mind, I forgot the movement is increased until next fight, I get rusty. Was into the wrong idea that every time you land you can get the bonus. My bad.


That's ok! Happens even to the best of us
My game crashed due to HD upgrade while I was facing Ash in 4/1/6 MoW hell.Most likely I shall restart the game in Era 2 2.46.The question is:which faction is more "manly" to be played?So far,MoD is boring,MoW is too OP,MoE is easy,MoS has great bonuses...Some heroes are not leaving their walls (like Olema,just forgetfulness and job done),invaders can be easily killed by any secondary hero (unlike in Tew 3) and midgame,around almost all prisons you can find strong neutral units which help to level up the rookie quite decent.With some attention,I think MoW can be done in 4 months,converting towns is replacing teleport in a comfortable way.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 13, 2022 04:52 PM

Well, once you finished  it 2-3 times, there is no longer any challenge, as with most maps where AI is not moving. In WoG/Era, AI moving within so many combat scripts will mostly crash the game so I had no choice.

Alexander is my hardest map.

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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 13, 2022 05:14 PM

Mures_ro said:
wasilix2 said:
Salamandre said:
Never mind, I forgot the movement is increased until next fight, I get rusty. Was into the wrong idea that every time you land you can get the bonus. My bad.


That's ok! Happens even to the best of us
My game crashed due to HD upgrade while I was facing Ash in 4/1/6 MoW hell.Most likely I shall restart the game in Era 2 2.46.The question is:which faction is more "manly" to be played?So far,MoD is boring,MoW is too OP,MoE is easy,MoS has great bonuses...Some heroes are not leaving their walls (like Olema,just forgetfulness and job done),invaders can be easily killed by any secondary hero (unlike in Tew 3) and midgame,around almost all prisons you can find strong neutral units which help to level up the rookie quite decent.With some attention,I think MoW can be done in 4 months,converting towns is replacing teleport in a comfortable way.


After playing 3 factions so far (except MoD), I think that all factions I played are fairly simple/easy if played ok. The primary challenge, I think is the opening phase (up to maybe Dace), and then you either roll over everything or you do something wrong/play too slow.

Thus I can't really say which faction is more "manly" per se. You say MoW is too OP, and MoE is too easy. I'd say that MoS isn't much different.

I was much more resource starved as MoS in the beginning, but the fact that you have early access to logistics artifacts and admiral hats for all of your heroes helps a lot. Also it makes you progress much faster than with other factions unless you are willing to accept your heroes being idle, which is a challenge in itself (maybe except MoE after 2-1-1) because you have to be beating same heroes with a smaller army.

Funny thing, that at some point MoS becomes a real Master of Wealth. I read someone mention here, that MoW gets 3k or so of resources per day on month 6 as if it's a lot. MoS dwarfs it, I'm getting around 9k (or maybe even more now) per day on month 3. Also the mithril bonus allowed me to save a lot of mithril on devils and start using demons on galthran (3-3-1) with fairly little mithril spent to increase damage of devils up to that point. Needless to say, that all fights after that were utterly easy. With each other faction, I switched to demons only around Thunar (dude with 300k of dragon flies).

MoS so far though is my personal favourite. I don't consider fight difficulty though, because as I said, fights are very similar for all factions except maybe MoE has some more options which ultimately make fights even easier.

For me MoS strikes the perfect balance of micromanagement and speed. It allows you to get good results with the easiest micromanagement.

MoE can be much faster, but this speed comes at the cost of having to juggle teleports, which is an extremely tedious task, and I'd personally only play it either without much teleport abuse or trying to beat the current best result being something like 2-4-3. In theory, you can move for free by just setting teleports on your hero and in a cell nearby and using a teleport to cover this 1-cell distance. Meaning that you will only have to spend movement points on objects and maybe fights. Probably possible to finish on something like 2-1-7, but who in their right mind would be doing something like this?

On another hand, loading and developing all of your heroes is harder on MoW, because they are just too slow to do many meaningful things and swap for someone else in the same turn. MoS heroes start running like crazy next day after you release them from the prison (at least 6k movement points for the slowest of the slow).

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 13, 2022 06:50 PM

Also I wonder if you guys take Arena every day. Once I get that stronghold, with every faction, I micromanage heroes around Commodus so his army is delivered every day to the Arena. Then using the extra ressources to buy mithril at the market.

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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 13, 2022 07:03 PM

Salamandre said:
Also I wonder if you guys take Arena every day. Once I get that stronghold, with every faction, I micromanage heroes around Commodus so his army is delivered every day to the Arena. Then using the extra ressources to buy mithril at the market.


I did that when I was playing MoW because of the specialty boost, but only to bring them all to level 40. With MoS this time I barely did it so far, only remembered about the fact that I could use it to improve my weak heroes when I was quite far away
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Mures_ro
Mures_ro

Tavern Dweller
posted September 13, 2022 08:40 PM

wasilix2 said:
Mures_ro said:
wasilix2 said:
Salamandre said:
Never mind, I forgot the movement is increased until next fight, I get rusty. Was into the wrong idea that every time you land you can get the bonus. My bad.


That's ok! Happens even to the best of us
My game crashed due to HD upgrade while I was facing Ash in 4/1/6 MoW hell.Most likely I shall restart the game in Era 2 2.46.The question is:which faction is more "manly" to be played?So far,MoD is boring,MoW is too OP,MoE is easy,MoS has great bonuses...Some heroes are not leaving their walls (like Olema,just forgetfulness and job done),invaders can be easily killed by any secondary hero (unlike in Tew 3) and midgame,around almost all prisons you can find strong neutral units which help to level up the rookie quite decent.With some attention,I think MoW can be done in 4 months,converting towns is replacing teleport in a comfortable way.


After playing 3 factions so far (except MoD), I think that all factions I played are fairly simple/easy if played ok. The primary challenge, I think is the opening phase (up to maybe Dace), and then you either roll over everything or you do something wrong/play too slow.

Thus I can't really say which faction is more "manly" per se. You say MoW is too OP, and MoE is too easy. I'd say that MoS isn't much different.

I was much more resource starved as MoS in the beginning, but the fact that you have early access to logistics artifacts and admiral hats for all of your heroes helps a lot. Also it makes you progress much faster than with other factions unless you are willing to accept your heroes being idle, which is a challenge in itself (maybe except MoE after 2-1-1) because you have to be beating same heroes with a smaller army.

Funny thing, that at some point MoS becomes a real Master of Wealth. I read someone mention here, that MoW gets 3k or so of resources per day on month 6 as if it's a lot. MoS dwarfs it, I'm getting around 9k (or maybe even more now) per day on month 3. Also the mithril bonus allowed me to save a lot of mithril on devils and start using demons on galthran (3-3-1) with fairly little mithril spent to increase damage of devils up to that point. Needless to say, that all fights after that were utterly easy. With each other faction, I switched to demons only around Thunar (dude with 300k of dragon flies).

MoS so far though is my personal favourite. I don't consider fight difficulty though, because as I said, fights are very similar for all factions except maybe MoE has some more options which ultimately make fights even easier.

For me MoS strikes the perfect balance of micromanagement and speed. It allows you to get good results with the easiest micromanagement.

MoE can be much faster, but this speed comes at the cost of having to juggle teleports, which is an extremely tedious task, and I'd personally only play it either without much teleport abuse or trying to beat the current best result being something like 2-4-3. In theory, you can move for free by just setting teleports on your hero and in a cell nearby and using a teleport to cover this 1-cell distance. Meaning that you will only have to spend movement points on objects and maybe fights. Probably possible to finish on something like 2-1-7, but who in their right mind would be doing something like this?

On another hand, loading and developing all of your heroes is harder on MoW, because they are just too slow to do many meaningful things and swap for someone else in the same turn. MoS heroes start running like crazy next day after you release them from the prison (at least 6k movement points for the slowest of the slow).
I enjoyed all factions,I was quoting what people said about them here(So Valery,I didn't intend to offend you,your maps are the only reason I keep playing ERA).Some early strats are more handy to some factions than others(MoD is able to fight cave of gods in 1/2/6,getting the resources for air upgrade - not sure about MoS;killing Pasis in 1/2/7,just like MoE and so on...).Sorry to disappoint you but MoE doesn't work that way (i.e. to finish the map in 2/1/7);I remember Mr. Green was finishing the map with MoE in 3/3/3,the pictures with the progress of his play are still  on this forum.A real challenge can be if you can find a faction to win WITHOUT farming demons...but I guess it's enough stress with the speedrun

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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 13, 2022 09:35 PM

Mures_ro said:
wasilix2 said:
Mures_ro said:
wasilix2 said:
Salamandre said:
Never mind, I forgot the movement is increased until next fight, I get rusty. Was into the wrong idea that every time you land you can get the bonus. My bad.


That's ok! Happens even to the best of us
My game crashed due to HD upgrade while I was facing Ash in 4/1/6 MoW hell.Most likely I shall restart the game in Era 2 2.46.The question is:which faction is more "manly" to be played?So far,MoD is boring,MoW is too OP,MoE is easy,MoS has great bonuses...Some heroes are not leaving their walls (like Olema,just forgetfulness and job done),invaders can be easily killed by any secondary hero (unlike in Tew 3) and midgame,around almost all prisons you can find strong neutral units which help to level up the rookie quite decent.With some attention,I think MoW can be done in 4 months,converting towns is replacing teleport in a comfortable way.


After playing 3 factions so far (except MoD), I think that all factions I played are fairly simple/easy if played ok. The primary challenge, I think is the opening phase (up to maybe Dace), and then you either roll over everything or you do something wrong/play too slow.

Thus I can't really say which faction is more "manly" per se. You say MoW is too OP, and MoE is too easy. I'd say that MoS isn't much different.

I was much more resource starved as MoS in the beginning, but the fact that you have early access to logistics artifacts and admiral hats for all of your heroes helps a lot. Also it makes you progress much faster than with other factions unless you are willing to accept your heroes being idle, which is a challenge in itself (maybe except MoE after 2-1-1) because you have to be beating same heroes with a smaller army.

Funny thing, that at some point MoS becomes a real Master of Wealth. I read someone mention here, that MoW gets 3k or so of resources per day on month 6 as if it's a lot. MoS dwarfs it, I'm getting around 9k (or maybe even more now) per day on month 3. Also the mithril bonus allowed me to save a lot of mithril on devils and start using demons on galthran (3-3-1) with fairly little mithril spent to increase damage of devils up to that point. Needless to say, that all fights after that were utterly easy. With each other faction, I switched to demons only around Thunar (dude with 300k of dragon flies).

MoS so far though is my personal favourite. I don't consider fight difficulty though, because as I said, fights are very similar for all factions except maybe MoE has some more options which ultimately make fights even easier.

For me MoS strikes the perfect balance of micromanagement and speed. It allows you to get good results with the easiest micromanagement.

MoE can be much faster, but this speed comes at the cost of having to juggle teleports, which is an extremely tedious task, and I'd personally only play it either without much teleport abuse or trying to beat the current best result being something like 2-4-3. In theory, you can move for free by just setting teleports on your hero and in a cell nearby and using a teleport to cover this 1-cell distance. Meaning that you will only have to spend movement points on objects and maybe fights. Probably possible to finish on something like 2-1-7, but who in their right mind would be doing something like this?

On another hand, loading and developing all of your heroes is harder on MoW, because they are just too slow to do many meaningful things and swap for someone else in the same turn. MoS heroes start running like crazy next day after you release them from the prison (at least 6k movement points for the slowest of the slow).
I enjoyed all factions,I was quoting what people said about them here(So Valery,I didn't intend to offend you,your maps are the only reason I keep playing ERA).Some early strats are more handy to some factions than others(MoD is able to fight cave of gods in 1/2/6,getting the resources for air upgrade - not sure about MoS;killing Pasis in 1/2/7,just like MoE and so on...).Sorry to disappoint you but MoE doesn't work that way (i.e. to finish the map in 2/1/7);I remember Mr. Green was finishing the map with MoE in 3/3/3,the pictures with the progress of his play are still  on this forum.A real challenge can be if you can find a faction to win WITHOUT farming demons...but I guess it's enough stress with the speedrun


If I recall correctly, Green finished on 2-4-3 or thereabout (it's somewhere around page 80-90 here). It's his walkthrough I referred as current fastest finish. While I don't know specifics of his playthrough, I believe he is not a masochist to play a near-infinite movement style of MoE as I described there (by making each step with a teleport), thus I assumed that he was probably doing a more reasonable version of the teleport abuse, which doesn't give nearly infinite movement points at the cost paying years from your own life

I'm obviously not claiming that I would be able to do that 2/1/7 run or going to even try that insanity, but I'm sure that if 2/4/3 was possible with a more traditional approach, 2/1/7 should be a rather conservative estimate for the fastest possible with this technique. As for me, I wouldn't even be able to remotely replicate the 1st month of Green's playthrough

Speaking of winning without demons, I have to assume MoD would be the best bet for that. One issue is that demon farming allows you to build a huge power stack with all the quests available, and it may be quite a challenge to overcome, given that time works against you...
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wasilix2
wasilix2

Tavern Dweller
posted September 13, 2022 09:38 PM
Edited by wasilix2 at 21:44, 13 Sep 2022.

On a side note, I love it:



Xeron is a little bit late for a party
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