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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Syria
Thread: Syria This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted May 05, 2013 03:33 PM

Israel thinks it has all the rights when it comes to weaker than him. Then, if some desperate guy is blowing himself in some public place, it says: "see? we were right to attack, they want our destruction". The weird part is that everyone buys it, just because uncle Sam is behind.
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted May 05, 2013 03:53 PM
Edited by Seraphim at 18:26, 05 May 2013.

Pro Syrian News video and also contains a reasoning of Israeli's action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9A444JRaF8

Pro FSA News video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2YFaV97eeM

It seems that Israel acted "correctly". If its true that they lost planes before, then they certainly have incentive to strike those AA missiles.
I guess that when somebody is in war, you dont bother to declare formalities such as "war declaration" and so on.

And attacking Damascus actually sends a powerful message, dont snow with Israel.

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted May 06, 2013 01:27 AM

Quote:
Israel thinks it has all the rights when it comes to weaker than him. Then, if some desperate guy is blowing himself in some public place, it says: "see? we were right to attack, they want our destruction". The weird part is that everyone buys it, just because uncle Sam is behind.


Nah, Israel just thinks it has a right to preserve itself. The radical Muslims around Israel want to blow Israel off the map and who won't be happy until every Jewish person on the planet is dead. Of course there are some non-Mulims in other nations that hate Israel too.  When Israel's radical neighbors all gatherered together to destroy Israel Israel kicked their collective butts (the Six Day War) and has triumphed over their aggression ever since, to the rage of certain anti-Jewish factions.
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artu
artu


Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 06, 2013 02:49 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Israel thinks it has all the rights when it comes to weaker than him. Then, if some desperate guy is blowing himself in some public place, it says: "see? we were right to attack, they want our destruction". The weird part is that everyone buys it, just because uncle Sam is behind.


Nah, Israel just thinks it has a right to preserve itself. The radical Muslims around Israel want to blow Israel off the map and who won't be happy until every Jewish person on the planet is dead. Of course there are some non-Mulims in other nations that hate Israel too.  When Israel's radical neighbors all gatherered together to destroy Israel Israel kicked their collective butts (the Six Day War) and has triumphed over their aggression ever since, to the rage of certain anti-Jewish factions.


The truth is somewhere in the middle on this but to be fair Israel's jumpiness is not pure paranoia. All of the countries surrounding Israel have a not very well educated population that can easily buy stuff like "The Jews control the world and Israel is the West's hand to dominate you" etc etc. Even here in Turkey which has a peaceful relationship with the state historically, Average Joe will fall for that stuff. Kind of ironic, because most of the urban legends they fall for was fabricated by Nazis just before WW2. However, this jumpiness causes Israel to act overaggressive, so as a very young state  (new kid in town), it just tries to solve  the problems by nuking them, which backfires. When it backfires, it means more anti-semitic people all around.

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted May 06, 2013 03:40 AM
Edited by Seraphim at 03:45, 06 May 2013.

Quote:

The truth is somewhere in the middle on this but to be fair Israel's jumpiness is not pure paranoia. All of the countries surrounding Israel have a not very well educated population that can easily buy stuff like "The Jews control the world and Israel is the West's hand to dominate you" etc etc. Even here in Turkey which has a peaceful relationship with the state historically, Average Joe will fall for that stuff. Kind of ironic, because most of the urban legends they fall for was fabricated by Nazis just before WW2. However, this jumpiness causes Israel to act overaggressive, so as a very young state  (new kid in town), it just tries to solve  the problems by nuking them, which backfires.
Quote:

When it backfires, it means more anti-semitic people all around.

Its obvious that israel does not give a damn about what people in the world think about it and it agressively pursues its own interests, which causes people to "hate it". While israels disregard of human life is obvious, i dont judge them as being the ones that stand out from the rest. I have reason to believe that any nation, in the shoes of israel, would act the way they act but they can do all this stuff because they can. They dont have to fear retaliation or something either.

When you simply can do something without retaliation, you simply do it.





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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 06, 2013 03:49 AM

Quote:
Its obvious that israel does not give a damn about what people in the world think about it and it agressively pursues its own interests, which causes people to "hate it". While israels disregard of human life is obvious, i dont judge them as being the ones that stand out from the rest. I have reason to believe that any nation, in the shoes of israel, would act the way they act but they can do all this stuff because they can. They dont have to fear retaliation or something either.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't think a typical Israeli citizen evaluates the situation as lightly as you and sings along Que Sera Sera, whatever will be will be...

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Nerf Herder
posted May 06, 2013 04:34 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 05:50, 06 May 2013.

Israel recognizes the fact that its reputation among Muslim-dominated nations is irreconcilably screwed for the foreseeable future. The people that hate Israel for striking those key targets hated them beforehand, so the effective damage to relations is almost immaterial, and there isn't going to be any adequate outcry outside of that zone to do anything about it; Hezbollah is on the international ****list and nobody cares a whole lot if they get attacked within Syrian borders.  
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Damacon_Ace
Damacon_Ace


Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
posted May 06, 2013 05:11 AM
Edited by Damacon_Ace at 05:12, 06 May 2013.

Israel has struck Damascus, but it's not an attack against Assad, but rather, an attack to stop Iran, for which they have a long animosity with.

Israel Attacks Damascus but not because of Assad
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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


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First in line
posted May 07, 2013 06:25 PM
Edited by VOKIALBG at 18:25, 07 May 2013.

For the sake of humanity... there is not oil there... but... take down the government and the rebels who made a human slaughterhouses out of Syria. Make it a protectorate, a colony, just not what it is now.
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Geny
Geny


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What if Elvin was female?
posted May 07, 2013 07:15 PM

I like it that half of the thread named Syria is about Israel...
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted May 07, 2013 07:15 PM
Edited by Seraphim at 22:24, 07 May 2013.

Quote:
For the sake of humanity... there is not oil there... but... take down the government and the rebels who made a human slaughterhouses out of Syria. Make it a protectorate, a colony, just not what it is now.


I never knew an Israeli-Syrian Ambassador visited HC...
How insightful.

Quote:
I like it that half of the thread named Syria is about Israel...

Israel did a second airstrike against Syria. Why are you so suprised people react negatively to this?
Now imagine before those israeli planes took off,lets say they took of from tel aviv, syria would send some of its planes and bomb tel aviv because they knew those planes were going to take off.
Fair? But since its a war, its actually understandable in my view, others dont see it that way.

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antipaladin
antipaladin


Promising
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted May 13, 2013 06:14 PM

i like it how you guys speak of Israel without asking Israelite's...
Israel destroyed missiles due to the fact that those weapons could go all the way to half of Israel and have a great damage potential. Israel try's to help the Syrian rebels who are massacring the government, not the other way around,and while war-like situation is a moment that haven't changed in 65 years regarding every nation around is in affect there is no telling when Syria or its daughter Hezbollah will charge against us, till then we are well ready.
its poor turn of events that this was the reason to improve terms with turkey, who became unfriendly during the last couple of years to to a more friend then always, and the last strikes where in co-op.
i was in Anatolia when i was 14, a great place,with a slightly better climate.
However in anyway using gas-nerve weapons is probably against some international laws. we are self-preserving because if Assad will turn victor,he will turn on us,eventually.

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malgore
malgore


Adventuring Hero
posted May 17, 2013 10:59 PM
Edited by malgore at 23:02, 17 May 2013.

Quote:
After all, Russia has pseudo-Czar Putin who rules exactly the same way minus the weapon attacks and China is still a Communist Dictatorship responsible for much of the human rights violations inside the country.


Another unrelated Cold War era crap.

Regarding initial post: U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria's civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin.

Full link


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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted May 18, 2013 04:37 AM
Edited by artu at 04:40, 18 May 2013.

Quote:
its poor turn of events that this was the reason to improve terms with turkey, who became unfriendly during the last couple of years to to a more friend then always, and the last strikes where in co-op.


Well, the political party in power has Islamic tendencies which does not help, but come to think of it, that wasn't a problem in the early years, I remember back in 2006 or so, Bill Clinton saying Erdogan was the only leader in the world who could maintain good relations with both Iran and Israel at the same time. (That couldn't last long now, could it? Middle Easterns have to fight!)

I think the turning point was this incident and it will echo at least a few more years:
Gaza flotilla raid

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted May 28, 2013 02:26 AM
Edited by Elodin at 02:28, 28 May 2013.

The EU has lifted its ban on providing rebels weapons.

Clicky

France is saying there is strong indication of chemical weapon use, which backs up what the US found before Obama reneged on his proclamation that chemical weapon use was a red line that must not be crossed.
Clicky

With chemical weapons being used against them the rebels have been losing recently. Which is a reason for the shift in the EU policy, I believe. The West may have waited too late to render aid and may have to put boots on the ground.

Clicky
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted May 28, 2013 02:55 AM

And Malgore's link says the rebels used the sarin. What I don't get is this urge to change the world face, more terrorists and chaos to create. If Assad still has important army and can survive, it means the people is divided and revolution is not ineluctable.

As one who lived through a popular revolution which ended with the death of the dictator (Ceausescu) I think that when people is speaking with one voice, nothing can stop it. But when on one side there are Israelis interests, then US, then EU, I smell a staged invasion like the last ones.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Nerf Herder
posted May 28, 2013 06:33 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 12:09, 28 May 2013.

US/EU/Israel all want the Syrian regime to lose because it's an Iranian and Russian ally that's sitting next door to Jerusalem. Half the rebels probably gathered around a fire and burnt a $4 American flag at some point in their lives as a substitute for BBQ ribs because they're ****ing poor, but an uncertain regime is generally considered better than one that is guaranteed to be against you. The question is how much they need to exert to make it happen without upsetting the public or having to commit troops. Assad has limited cash reserves but he can still afford to pay Russia at a bargained discount whereas Western arms shipment will solely be charity. I'm sure we can expect another case of both sides being supplied and the death toll mounting as a result.
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xerox
xerox


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posted May 28, 2013 11:03 AM
Edited by xerox at 11:05, 28 May 2013.

Yes, Syria really comes to down to a clash of power projection between US/Europe/Israel/Saudi/Turkey/Gulf states and Russia/Iran/other shia groups. Right now rebels seem to be on the losing side. The regime has been supplied for a long time by Russia and Iran and Hezbollah, which are pretty darn good at fighting, have brought parts of Libanon into the conflict.

I don't expect that lifting the arms embargo will shift the balance of power. The general consensus among european governments is that we should be very restrictive about sending weapons over there since they could easily fall into the wrong hands.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted June 13, 2013 11:55 PM
Edited by Elodin at 23:55, 13 Jun 2013.

The White House has acknowledged Syria has used chemical weapons a number of times. Obama says the "scope and scale of assistance" will be stepped up. Senators McCain and Graham issue a statement as well.

Expect some US military action. Probably in the way of air support and arms for the rebels though I anticipate boots on the ground at some point. That could have been avoided had Obama provided air support earlier as McCain had recommended.

Clicky

Quote:

Washington (CNN) -- [Breaking news update, 5:25 p.m. ET]

The White House acknowledged Thursday the Syrian government has used chemical weapons, including the nerve agent sarin, on a small scale a number of times, according to a statement.

The administration also indicated it will increase the "scope and scale of assistance" to rebels in Syria following its acknowledgment that the Bashar al-Assad government has used chemical weapons in the civil war, according to the statement.

[Original story published at 5:12 p.m. ET]

Sources: U.S. to acknowledge Syria crossed 'red line' with use of chemical weapons

Congress has been notified that the United States will acknowledge that Syria used chemical weapons on a small scale multiple times and that a "red line" has been crossed, congressional sources told CNN on Thursday.

The intelligence community has concluded that sarin gas was used in the Syrian civil war, and that between 100 and 150 people died as a result, a senior intelligence official said.

Earlier this year, the United States said its intelligence analysts had concluded "with varying degrees of confidence" that chemical weapons had been used in the Syrian civil war. But President Barack Obama said "intelligence assessments alone are not sufficient."



Clicky
Quote:

We appreciate the President's finding that the Assad regime has used chemical weapons on several occasions. We also agree with the President that this fact must affect U.S. policy toward Syria. The President's red line has been crossed. U.S. credibility is on the line. Now is not the time to merely take the next incremental step. Now is the time for more decisive actions.

"The conflict in Syria has taken a dramatic turn for the worse. The United Nations reported today that the death toll in Syria is approaching 93,000. Hezbollah is all in. Iran is all in. Iraqi militant groups are flowing into Syria to fight for Assad. Russia continues to provide military and diplomatic support. Assad is dramatically increasing his use of airpower against civilians and opposition forces in Syria. A report today stated that Assad's forces conducted at least 5,000 air-to-ground attacks last month alone.

"A decision to provide lethal assistance, especially ammunition and heavy weapons, to opposition forces in Syria is long overdue, and we hope the President will take this urgently needed step. But providing arms alone is not sufficient. That alone is not enough to change the military balance of power on the ground against Assad. The President must rally an international coalition to take military actions to degrade Assad's ability to use airpower and ballistic missiles and to move and resupply his forces around the battlefield by air. This can be done, as we have said many times, using stand-off weapons such as cruise missiles.

"We cannot afford to delay any longer. Assad is on the offensive with every weapon in his arsenal and with the complete support of his foreign allies. We must take more decisive actions now to turn the tide of the conflict in Syria."


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fauch
fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 14, 2013 03:35 AM

what could be avoided?

is it all a lie?

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