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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Syria
Thread: Syria This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2013 12:37 AM

lol David Cameron got downvoted on military action
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body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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seraphim
seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted August 30, 2013 12:55 AM
Edited by seraphim at 01:06, 30 Aug 2013.

Why so much obama hate? Seems like hc is filled with obama haters. Obama seema reluctant to start an attack.

Indeed, the loudest barkers are those who praise putin and a dictator whose daddy was best known about a masacre.

You know, I would not go around and side with anyone in this conflict, the good of the people is never considered in such discussions.
Otherwise, we would not be having china and russia block a mere protective zone for civilians, or mr.assad not step down.
If assad cared about his peoplw,he would havw stepped down, as any moral being would do to end a war.
Its 3 years of war there yet people snow about international laws, diplomacy and obama itching to attack. How lowly.
One side should give up and start helping the people and the other should be cut funding.

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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 30, 2013 11:10 AM
Edited by VOKIALBG at 11:11, 30 Aug 2013.

I do not know where are you from, but imagine that there are armed rebels in your country for some reason. Is this not a crime? And how your government is going to react? Open the gates of their national assembly and offer them coffee and cookies? No. They will do what the Syrian government is doing - they will strike them back with the army or the national police forces or hired international troops or something else.
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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted August 30, 2013 01:58 PM

xerox said:
lol David Cameron got downvoted on military action


well, there are some people with a brain in the UK's parliament.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted August 30, 2013 02:08 PM

seraphim said:
Why so much obama hate?

He's one of the worst presidents the United States has ever had?

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted August 30, 2013 02:24 PM

Also like... he's one of *those* people who focuses on how pretty the wrapping paper is a parcel is wrapped in, rather than on what's actually inside the parcel. if you know what i mean.

I'm not American, but it's just one of those traits I really hate in politicians. Such crowdpleasers :-/



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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2013 02:47 PM
Edited by Fauch at 14:55, 30 Aug 2013.

Corribus said:
seraphim said:
Why so much obama hate?

He's one of the worst presidents the United States has ever had?


oh, only one of the worst? I guess it's better than here then.

seraph : the USA seem to invade many more countries than anyone else. now, I don't know if Putin or Bachar are examples of virtue, but I'd rather side with them. I doubt we need a superpower totally dominating the whole world.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2013 05:26 PM
Edited by xerox at 17:27, 30 Aug 2013.

Quote:
I doubt we need a superpower totally dominating the whole world.


I don't think Obama's got a clue what he's doing right now. However, I think we're better off with the US as a world power than not.
The alternatives have always been far worse.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2013 05:59 PM

Corribus said:
He's one of the worst presidents the United States has ever had?
As bad as he is, he's still about average as far as US presidents go. Consider he's competing with Jackson, TR, FDR, LBJ, and such.
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2013 06:06 PM
Edited by Fauch at 18:07, 30 Aug 2013.

what are those alternatives?

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2013 06:07 PM

Well, I voted for Gary Johnson.
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted August 30, 2013 06:14 PM

If Obama is not a good president, how did he get re-elected? That means people still like him.
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 30, 2013 06:21 PM
Edited by xerox at 19:43, 30 Aug 2013.

maybe because to many of the Republicans have no clue how to get growing demographics to vote for them

Fauch said:
what are those alternatives?


If the US faded as a world power today, Russia and also China to some extent would get larger ambitions to increase their global influence.
It'd be bad because Russia and China are not very nice countries.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted August 30, 2013 06:33 PM

The united states with it's huge bloated out islamophobia will soon reach it's end.

If they do invade, I suggest their ground troops have plenty of gas masks, because Assad then definetely gas the dumb grunts. and this so called "gas attack" is nothing more than a western provocation imo.
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
posted August 30, 2013 07:04 PM

Noobie: Powerful countries never mind their own business. Ever.


If there's a war going on, they get involved sooner or later.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted August 30, 2013 07:24 PM

To all things comes an end.
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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted August 30, 2013 09:18 PM bonus applied by Corribus on 10 Sep 2013.
Edited by Lexxan at 21:20, 30 Aug 2013.

.

The reason why the US intervenes in such conflicts is because part of their own power base LIES within the middle east.

They are not China or India, superpowers who basically sit on their own turf and can survive on cheaply laboured industry and sell their inexpensive produce in profitable bulks. In the US (and most of the Western World), such industry would be (correctly) labeled as "ethically unjust", so they can't depend on that.  

They are not Russia which has rich raw material reserves and has all to gain by the situation not escalating. Again, because Russia is a huge exporter of basically every raw material, from oil to metals to grain to gas. The materials the US does have it does not possess in enough of a quantity to sustain their gargantuan, but VERY fragile economy.

The US basically set their diplomatic game up in such a manner that they CANNOT afford to sit back and let things pass by. There's too much at stake for them. Crude oil (and other raw materials i'm unaware of) are necessary for their economy, which as i mentioned before is really fragile and on top of that the US has a lot of allies in the neighbourhood who are potentially threatened by this Civil war: Turkey, Saudi-Arabia, Israel and (i presume?) Jordan, Kuweit and Iraq.

No, of the four Superpowers this world has at the moment (because lolbritain and lolfrance and Germany's a grand canyon-sized step behind US/India/China/Russia as of now, so i don't count Merkel & Co. amongst them), there's only one that not only has an advantage towards intervening, but MUST act, at the risk of completely bankrupting themselves if things go awry.

This is basically a repeat of the Iraq War (which in itself was a repeat of the Gulf War). Instead of "HMMM WE'VE RECEIVED WORD THAT SADDAM HUSSEIN HAS... ~WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION~... so we must kill him although the odds of him launching a nuclear strike on Israel is like... 0.00001% " it's now "OMG ACID ATTACKS ON CHILDREN!!!!!1!11! there's no reason why Assad would resort to this, diplomatically or strategically but it MUST BE HIM since he's the Bad Guy ".. Inb4 Obama admits, in some shady CW interview a few years from now, that Assad actually didn't commit those crimes. Oh well :-/ -- George W. Bush on learning Sadam Hussein did not have WoMDs.

In a sense i can understand why Obama invades (lol it's not official YET but like.. who are we kidding here, really.). I personally do not support the "official" Humanitarean reasons which this impending invasion seems to be comissioned for. Human, please, stop trying to trick the public opinion. You're not fooling any person with a shred of common sense (which granted, cliché, cliché, most US citizens don't seem to possess - sigh, why can't every person in that country be a Cor or a Blizzardboy? *doublesigh*)

that being said, though, do we WANT the rebels to win the way? There's a reason why the Russian Federation wants Assad to win, and that is their (usual, but understandable) paranoia w/r/t [radical] Islam. It is know that a good chunk of the Armed Opposition in Syria are radicals, who are bent on making Syria a completely Islamic state. No wonder the Russians, and the religious minorities in Syria (Shia muslims, christians, druze) support Assad.

I personally, also feel that if the US intervenes NOW, they will basically enable their *truly* biggest enemy (the radical muslim militias, such as Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda). Which of course is incredibly short-sighted, and let's face it, fricking *stupid* of them. Look at how long it took post-Saddam Iraq to become a... 23rd rate excuse of a Sovereign State, if it's even that. Look at how long it's taking Afghanistan to somewhat reach that level. Why would Syria be any different?

As i noted in my above post, Assad has NOTHING to gain by repeatedly dousing his population with napalm and acid, or murdering entire neighbourhoods with poisonous gas. Of course these action are loathesome beyond the English Vocabulary, but i mean... think about it. Would Assad REALLY do such a thing? Especially after the US threatened to invade if such chemical warfare would occur? (another reason why the US must invade - they would lose a TON of international prestige if they didn't #HeartsOfIronTerminology)I really just don't buy that Assad would be that desperate (although what EXACTLY is their to gain by murdering children? Gruesome.) to commit such atrocities. IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY FRICKING SENSE.

Besides, isn't it like... impossible to prove that Assad is behind the attacks? The only thing that the UN research team CAN prove is that whether or not there has been an attack. The UN itself has to draw the conclusions. Assad is, as they would say, snowed.

Does this mean Assad must stay? HELL NO. It has been proven before that he has committed crimes of cruelty, even if he didn't necessarily commit this one. He therefor *must* be disposed of, absolutely. He is, undeniably, a dirty rotten scumbag and I definitely do not sympathise with him OR with Russia/Putin. Just to put that aside, amongst my America-bashing. All sides to this conflict are awful, some just more awful than others. Hell, US Intervention > Current Syrian Regime any time of the day. Although picking between the two is like picking between chlamydia and syphilis. Either way you're screwed  

I personally think it's just better for the US's sake, to have Assad dispose of the radicals first (since he IS, after all, winning that part of the Civil War - despite Obama's best efforts to cockblock it!), and THEN invade and dispose of him. Acting now and acting rashly can (and very likely will) leave Syria in a state where many more innocents will die than necessary. both inside Syria, and abroad as well.

In short: This upcoming invasion, while the motivation behind it is understandable, is a bloody horrible idea to do NOW. Unless it somehow works out well. Which I, honestly, really doubt.



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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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seraphim
seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted August 31, 2013 12:06 AM

Fauch said:

seraph : the USA seem to invade many more countries than anyone else. now, I don't know if Putin or Bachar are examples of virtue, but I'd rather side with them. I doubt we need a superpower totally dominating the whole world.


Of course we need a superpower for the same reason we need a higher body, such as the state, to control and govern society.
A superstate is desirable, as long as it is not something akin to totalitarian china, russia or Iran. I am more concenred if the US morphs or gets replaced by something worse.

I certainly would not want to see a xenophobic, anti-liberal country such as russia become more than a bad joke in a news story.


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seraphim
seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted August 31, 2013 01:01 AM
Edited by seraphim at 01:09, 31 Aug 2013.

Russia's position on Syria over the past two years has been totally counter-productive to a peaceable solution, as allies of Assad, they are well aware that anyone who replaced the Assad dynasty would be hostile to them so they have invested in a huge effort in propping him up, supplying political and military aid which has led him to get away with what in any sane world would be considered war crimes.
This does legitimize some sort of intervention that would allow people to live and reside in a safe zone or area in syria, the point is, nobody is willing to do so or is hindered from doing so. Russia with china did block any attempt at sanctioning Syria and then for some reason, the EU was forced by the US to lift the arms embargo.
Seems like since nobody can agree on an embargo, lets just throw weapons at whoever is willing to fight assad/russia!

The ideal response to the conflict would have been a complete arms embargo to Syria at the break out of hostilities two years ago, the establishment of a UN controlled buffer zone to prevent civilian loss ,but instead both the Russians and the West have poured fuel on the fire by continuing to export weapons to the various groups involved in the conflict, though I do not know for certain that any Western country provided arms to whoever the snow the rebels are.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 31, 2013 04:24 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 04:32, 31 Aug 2013.

I'm glad I'm not Syrian. Hearing about all this discussion going on through whatever means they might get their media is probably really scary.
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