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| Thread: 29% US population says armed revolution may be needed |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted May 04, 2013 10:42 PM |
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Wasn't my point: almost all Europe fears africain immigration, the shock between both cultures is rude (or lack of culture/education if you want, call me what you want-I have eyes and ears).
In next years, all governments will push towards a more selective immigration-this becoming obvious- and then several eastern countries are positively considered, while the massive flux from Africa will be stopped neat, or at least reconsidered on what each one has to offer, not to take.
@Elodin: you introduce topics but you want all discussion to go in your way only. If someone disagree, he is anti something, or he is a liar, communist, atheist or other withering adjectives. The problem is that your topics are not chit-chat like, they are quite explosive, worrying if you don't often seek to provoke then play the victim, do you?
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted May 04, 2013 10:46 PM |
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Edited by Hobbit at 22:50, 04 May 2013.
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Quote:
You are certainly lying about me once again, sadly.
Stating a personal opinion that you don't agree with is not a lie. And it's not even an insult. It's the freedom of speech.
AFAIK you're not against the democratic system in USA, so you should deal with it easily. 
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 04, 2013 10:53 PM |
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Edited by artu at 22:55, 04 May 2013.
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Immigration wasn't my point either. What I'm talking about is Doomforge says to Americans you don't know how lucky you are, then you say to Doomforge, so don't you and compare France to Poland, I can come up with ups and downs of Istanbul etc etc... The point is everybody's standards are determined by what they are used to. So an American won't live his life comparing his standards to Poland or Uganda or wherever.. Every once in a while anybody can think to themselves "thank god, I wasn't born in Nigeria" (or X country) but the point is, nobody will be thankful for the standard they are used to all the time. That's why very rich people feel bad when they lose some of their money even though their current state is like a lottery ticket to us.
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Salamandre
Admirable
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Wog refugee
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posted May 04, 2013 10:58 PM |
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Hey, Poland gave Frederik Chopin. For only this reason, Poland is for me a potential heaven. Ok, will not move in because little money, but my door is open to any polish chick then taste the cultural exchange. Literally!
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 04, 2013 10:58 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 23:01, 04 May 2013.
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Well, this has no end... To an African living in some dictatorship in the middle of turf wars, we're all living in paradise.
I'm sure that was the same during the time of the American Revolution as well.
America has actually gone quite a bit longer than the founders anticipated before another revolution would be needed. The founders recognized that governments always, always, always grab more and more and more power. They recognized that even though they put a system of checks and balances in place sooner corrupt power hungry men would gain power and the will of the people would be meaningless.
Like I said in my opening post, I don't believe that time is now. There is still some degree of hope left for correcting the course of America though certainly things could come crashing down quickly.
Quote:
AUTHOR: Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826)
QUOTATION: The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.
“Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny”
“If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.”
God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.
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Declaration of Independence
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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artu
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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 04, 2013 11:08 PM |
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Hey, Poland gave Frederik Chopin. For only this reason, Poland is for me a potential heaven.
He's my favorite among the romantics too. Especially his concertos and his Prelude in E minor.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted May 04, 2013 11:20 PM |
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Elodin... if a conservative got into the whitehouse and then didn't move, passing laws outlawing all the things you hated, and somehow kept on getting voted back into power, would you really complain? would the democratic right of the people be really what you wanted, even if he outlawed islam, atheism, had communists and homosexuals deported, and gave tax breaks for everyone (plus whatever else you wanted)?
Basically, if you're dream president decided to stay on for 1 more term, would you be willing to preserve democratic process, or support the person will make america great again.
Actually, this question could got out to everyone, if you're dream president/ prime minster overstayed the term, would you kick him out or let him stay on?
honestly, I'd be torn. I support democracy with all my heart, but if my dream prime minister, the man/ woman who was doing everything I felt was right and what the country needed, I'd be tempted to let them stay on... that probably shows my weakness or my lack of faith in democracy/ humanity, so I don't know.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 05, 2013 12:31 AM |
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Quote:
the whole idea behind the united states, is that it was started as a free country.
We all know how well that worked out.
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 05, 2013 12:38 AM |
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Quote:
i never said it was, artu.
Yes, not exactly with those words. But you kind of reacted like the whole concept was very unique to American culture and the people who think of it as unrealistic are therefore against American ideals.
If not, what is your problem? You say you are not among the 29% who wanna take up arms, why does it bother you when someone finds their way of reaction in vain and senseless?
(This anti-american accusations here and there to this and that are becoming repetitive and boring btw. Trust me, I've seen some real anti-american forums, this place is so not it.)
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fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 05, 2013 01:04 AM |
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how many people would like a new Martin Luther King?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 05, 2013 01:10 AM |
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Quote:
how many people would like a new Martin Luther King?
Whose spokesman will he be? MLK was defending the civil rights of blacks when they were oppressed in the 60s. Is there a crowded enough social group like that in America as of now?
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 05, 2013 01:29 AM |
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So basically Occupy Wallstreet, except the mainstream media treats them with seriousness and respect, and a decent figurehead on the top of that?
Would be good, if it succeed.
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 05, 2013 05:50 AM |
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why? because it is snowING OFFENSIVE. you don't talk snow about other countries, especially when you do not respect the country in question.
I do. Ask anyone of them. If I don't say or feel something bad about europe a dozen times a day, it's a lost day. Except, I can do better than german nazi shtick.
*ahem*
Eldoin, you wrap yourself up in the swaddling clothes of the founding fathers. Let us not forget that while Thomas Jefferson might have put in good days at the office, he still went home and bedded his slave mistress.
The poll is bs. The majority of the ayes are discontented whites who are the first to tell us, "It's called da white house fer a reason!" I strongly believe it is their balatant, ignorant tribalism that prevents them from accepting a black man as their president.
These southern and rural whites are born and bred to like their daddy's preferred corporate logos.
"Hey Dale, you know what FORD stands for? Found On Road Dead!! Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk."
"Is that ragh' Billy? That jest does to show ye, ah'd rather push a Ford n' drive a Chevy!"
Same goes for their brands of beer, "You like Miller er Bud?"
Same goes for their trousers, "Levi's or Wrangler?"
Same goes for their tools, "Snap-On or Klein?"
But they only have one choice in politics. The republican party. Right now, there's a war going on in the republican party. You see, the tea party congressmen and women who came into office riding a wave of voter apathy in 2010, actually believed the line of bullsnow the republican party fed them. And now they're so angry at being so used, they're preventing one half of our legislative branches, the House, from being able to do anything except spit out anti-abortion legislation, Fifty four different bills between January 2011 and August of last year.
On the senate side, the republicans have filibustered nearly every damn bill, thus requiring 60 votes out of 100 to override the filibuster. The dems do not have enough bodies to do that. Not to mention, the so-called blue dogs I'm convinced are republican moles.
So, what's the game? Republicans break the government, tell the rest of the country that a big government won't work, and push towards a libertarian paradise where our labor force will compete with southeast Asia and Africa for world's lowest wages paid.
They cannot do it on the merits of their political positions. Those flat out suck. Instead, with this wave to power, during a census year no less, repulicans who won control of their states and local governments successfully gerrymandered congressional districts to just about guarantee a disproportionate amount of rebublicans in the federal congress. Voter suppression is their new tact....
Back to these discontented few....I bet they believe they could take us. Their media favorites, FOX News, Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, and *ugh* Levin, have convinced them of that. Douchebag McBeck has screamed for armed revolution. Some of you may recall that Elodin referred to Glenn Beck as someone who, "had journalistic integrity." /Elodin's judgement of character.
The far right mass media heads can only go one direction, and that is to take even fewer prisoners in a neverending quest for ideological purity. They have succeeded in convincing their listeners that any other media source is riddled with, "loony liberal liars", not one of them, and not to be trusted. These are dangerous men who remind me of the deejay from Hotel Rawanda. And yes, they do rile up their base and get them frothing at the mouth and believing they just might take a crack at a revolution.
If these discontented few were serious about change in this country, they would embrace a constitutional amendment, not to ban abortion or gay marriage, those dumbasses, but to force federal elections to be publicly funded, no private financing. That is the only way you will have a chance of someone to actually vote their conscience in Washington (queue music from Mr. Smith Goes to Washington).
If they were serious, they would look at the equally discontented left and say, "You know. I like my brands and logos and all that, but I don't think it's a good idea that when a company becomes too big to fail, their execs become too big to jail, HSBC as the recent example. Ain't no justice if a suit can't go to jail. Maybe we should figure a way to reel'em in."
So yes, the poll is nonsense. Corporatism is a bigger threat to our liberty than do-gooder, liberal welfare cheats. I'd love to have a real conversation with my southern brothers and sisters about that. However, I can't seem to be able to get past their culturally approved first question, "So! Which church do you go to?"
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 05, 2013 08:09 AM |
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Gootch: for a guy so smart, I don't understand how you can be so far from a realist. For example, do you really think Republicans are the only ones who manipulate districting to favor their party? I mean, I respect a guy who has strong opinions, but I feel they've got to be grounded in reality in order to be productive. I understand you hold very different beliefs than those allegedly endorsed by the Republican party platform - although I don't think that justifies the level of vitriol - but are you so blinded by your hatred of the other side that you fail to see that the people you agree with on a ideological level are prone to the very same kind of abuses? I for one think half the problem is the system itself, but the system will never improve if we are so focused on blaming only the other guys for everything that's wrong with it.
I hope I am not being too intrusive by asking this (or that I'll end up regretting it), but my curiosity gets the better of me: can you explain the origin of your very polarized political viewpoints? If I'm not mistaken, you were in the military, correct? Most people in the military tend to vote conservative. What experiences turned you in the other direction?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 05, 2013 11:34 AM |
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I agree with Gootch on the matter of Corporatism. It eats every country alive. Just look at Samsung of Southern Korea: It's already a "country in a country".
as for Fred: Glad you chilled. As a patriot, you should do things that benefit your country the most, no? Then explain it to me: how do you justify civil war (= dark age for the country) just to change the leading party or president? Last time I checked, there were more... civilized ways of making politicians retire. Ones that don't require shotguns, armed revolutions and civil wars.
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xerox
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 05, 2013 03:34 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 15:35, 05 May 2013.
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Now that I think about it, a war between american rebels and government supporters would actually be an amazingly cool setting for a Hollywood movie. It ends with the US becoming a semi-socialist country that ends up being even more totalitarian. The Syrian insurrection is already popcorn-worthy so there's a level of excitement to cash in on here.
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- John Stuart Mill
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 05, 2013 03:49 PM |
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A tiny percentage of americains are still dependents of violence, condone and believe it is part of their roots. Look at Elodin: all he blames Obama is about his lack of aggressive action, why don't bomb there, why not invade here, why health care, why cautious. Is like they think that the greatness of America is tied to its constant capability to put someone else on knees-preferably weak country but with lots of oil. This is a thing which europeans find for the least strange because it is very far from their daily preoccupations and aims.
I am sure America has much better to offer than make the news with its military parades.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
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posted May 05, 2013 03:54 PM |
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Quote:
The Syrian insurrection is already popcorn-worthy so there's a level of excitement to cash in on here.
Tens of thousands of civilians dying in open conflict with an authoritarian regime is popcorn-worthy? Wth is wrong with you?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2013 04:05 PM |
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The most idiotic thing about this is that I'm saying that America is great for like 10 posts and Fred still goes berserk on how I hate America. Lol.
I've been on the receiving end of that too in the past so I understand what that's like.
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The_Gootch
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Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 05, 2013 04:13 PM |
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I'll get to Corribus later. Xerox, young man, those expressions are best left to a small circle of friends when you're smoking and joking in person with each other about the world. There is nothing funny about the kind of sorrow and suffering going on in Syria.
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