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| Thread: Heroes 6 SOD strategy: Playing Dungeon faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted May 22, 2013 03:28 PM |
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Nice post Nameless 
I would not go for purge....
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 22, 2013 04:40 PM |
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thanks, i notice a lack of rather "comprehensive" guides and i know that some players struggle with this problem so i decided to try myself facing haven in this matchup.
about the purge - sometimes its useful and sometimes its not that's why i listed it as an ability to consider switching. Its just its useful to dispel pressed attack and stone skin from many units at the same time and i feel its better than mass dispel in this regard. You still need dispel to fight vs angels.
The reason why i've put purge is that i play mostly as haven and i prefer to have mass dispel even though i have glories to dispel things. Many a times its better to get rid of opponent crucial spells than to cast your own.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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Icewolfnector
Hired Hero
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posted May 23, 2013 07:38 PM |
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Just thought about something that would have made the black dragons withering breath a bit more interesting. Fire breath targeting like in heroes 5, so you could attack 2 units in a strait line. Probably with reduced damage for the second target or so. That would defenitly be something nice and dragon like ^^
Btw what do the people of you who play dungeon think so far of the terrifying presence ability?
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 23, 2013 09:27 PM |
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Quote:
Just thought about something that would have made the black dragons withering breath a bit more interesting. Fire breath targeting like in heroes 5, so you could attack 2 units in a strait line. Probably with reduced damage for the second target or so. That would defenitly be something nice and dragon like ^^
i really like this idea
Quote:
Btw what do the people of you who play dungeon think so far of the terrifying presence ability?
its very random but sometimes you can stop champion unit and that always hurts your opponent. I find it useful but not something i can rely.
But overall its too random and badly designed:
- even 1 black dragon can "terrify" 3472332239 cyclops which is just stupid, the chance to stop a unit or a morale decrease should be logarithmically connected with the number of black dragon (it means that every new dragon will have less effect on terrifying presence, e.g.: 1 BD has 5% chance to frighten a unit and, 10 dragons lets say 20% and 100 BD lets say 40%)
- it shouldn't work on champions - it's just too punitive and rarely happens
- ti should have high to very high chance to frighten a core and rather low to frighten an elite
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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Icewolfnector
Hired Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 04:22 AM |
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Quote:
its very random but sometimes you can stop champion unit and that always hurts your opponent. I find it useful but not something i can rely.
But overall its too random and badly designed:
- even 1 black dragon can "terrify" 3472332239 cyclops which is just stupid, the chance to stop a unit or a morale decrease should be logarithmically connected with the number of black dragon (it means that every new dragon will have less effect on terrifying presence, e.g.: 1 BD has 5% chance to frighten a unit and, 10 dragons lets say 20% and 100 BD lets say 40%)
Yes, that sounds a lot more reasonable and would also increase the impact of the dragons ability if there are more of them.
We should ask the devs if they feel like tweaking it this way for the next patch hehe ^^
On a side note: So many cyclops sound like a REALLY long game 
Quote:
- it shouldn't work on champions - it's just too punitive and rarely happens
- ti should have high to very high chance to frighten a core and rather low to frighten an elite
Well it doesn't work against pit lords because of blinded by rage, absolute purity should also make the angels immune and the whole undead faction is immmune aswell.
Don't know if it works against other black dragons haven't tested that yet.
So at least 50% of the champion creatures aren't affected anyway
But they probably should have made different chances to trigger for core/elite/champion creatures.
I don't think the chances are high, but let's hope they will tweak the BD a bit in some future patch, if there ever will be one.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 10:26 AM |
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Quote:
Well it doesn't work against pit lords because of blinded by rage, absolute purity should also make the angels immune and the whole undead faction is immune as well.
Don't know if it works against other black dragons haven't tested that yet.
So at least 50% of the champion creatures aren't affected anyway
But they probably should have made different chances to trigger for core/elite/champion creatures.
thanks for agreeing.
i didn't know about the pit lords, and angels certainly are immune. I think dragon aren't immune which is kinda ridiculous (sb has to confirm).
I also think that there is an unnecessary doubling of abilities. You have 20% chance to frighten a unit and 80% to give them -15 morale, you should simply give dragons one ability to decrease a bigger number of morale, b/c morale works like a chance for unit to skim turn. Lets assume that the "morale value" of this 20% chance is 25, so: 25+0,8*15=37, so to have similar results dragons should decrease morale by 37. This way it is also more interesting b/c you can add more certainty by casting mass despair and your opponent has the option to counter the effect by casting burning determination. Simply putting 20% chance to skip the turn is a dull ability that makes the game random without giving players opportunity to include it into some interesting strategy.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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blazejo85
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 24, 2013 11:44 AM |
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Quote:
i didn't know about the pit lords, and angels certainly are immune. I think dragon aren't immune which is kinda ridiculous (sb has to confirm).
I just checked... BD are immune to it
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 12:44 PM |
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Quote:
Simply putting 20% chance to skip the turn is a dull ability that makes the game random without giving players opportunity to include it into some interesting strategy.
I agree. Players should know what will happen for sure. If it can happen with certain probability, I cannot rely on it. It will be just a nice bonus if it happens. If not, I don't care, because I didn't take it into account, anyway.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 24, 2013 01:28 PM |
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Quote:
I just checked... BD are immune to it
that leaves Kirins and cyclops only. So i'm ok with it working vs champions b/c it won't change much unless there are some balancing issues.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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sym9800
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 27, 2013 04:59 AM |
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Edited by sym9800 at 05:09, 27 May 2013.
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Hello, everyone, Hi zerg!
I am new here introduced by zergRusher(Nameless)`(*~{!I~}_~{!I~}*). This forum is nice and I found interesting discussions from your views. I used to be an inferno player and just begin to try Dungeon.
Before I become a good Dungeon player, I want to share some videos of a friend called "wyd247". He is a good Dungeon player, maybe you have all played with him already. I hope this may give some impression of the abilities of Dungeon in the duel.
(Actually,I don't konw wether it is ok to post a link of videos
Before each video, there is 60 seconds advertisement which you may suffer. It is added by the dotcoms...)
http://i.youku.com/u/UNTE3NjYxODI0
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted May 27, 2013 01:18 PM |
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Quote:
Hello, everyone, Hi zerg!
I am new here introduced by zergRusher(Nameless)`(*~{!I~}_~{!I~}*). This forum is nice and I found interesting discussions from your views. I used to be an inferno player and just begin to try Dungeon.
Before I become a good Dungeon player, I want to share some videos of a friend called "wyd247". He is a good Dungeon player, maybe you have all played with him already. I hope this may give some impression of the abilities of Dungeon in the duel.
(Actually,I don't konw wether it is ok to post a link of videos
Before each video, there is 60 seconds advertisement which you may suffer. It is added by the dotcoms...)
http://i.youku.com/u/UNTE3NjYxODI0
Hi sym!
So what do you think about the strategy on page 3?
I can once again praise your inferno skills. I'm never afraid to admit a defeat especially when i'm playing my best. It was a pleasure to face you, although i manage to steal a victory from your inferno so it was draw 1-1 xD. Hope to see you again. Also bare in mind that the specialization you used exploding spikes in banned from tournaments as being slightly OP - but clearly it wasn't the reason of your victory.
I've watched the videos and most of the times he plays magic and i don't feel like i can really write something meaningful but he looks like a very good player. I cannot say i've faced him but i played against many players and i don't remember having difficulties vs Dungeon as Haven might (you and eyezonhim were the best Dun players). Also some of the opponent were pretty bad so it's hard to say how dungeon fares against other races from watching this videos alone.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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sym9800
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 27, 2013 07:20 PM |
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Edited by sym9800 at 07:39, 28 May 2013.
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Quote:
Hi sym!
So what do you think about the strategy on page 3?
I can once again praise your inferno skills. I'm never afraid to admit a defeat especially when i'm playing my best. It was a pleasure to face you, although i manage to steal a victory from your inferno so it was draw 1-1 xD. Hope to see you again. Also bare in mind that the specialization you used exploding spikes in banned from tournaments as being slightly OP - but clearly it wasn't the reason of your victory.
I've watched the videos and most of the times he plays magic and i don't feel like i can really write something meaningful but he looks like a very good player. I cannot say i've faced him but i played against many players and i don't remember having difficulties vs Dungeon as Haven might (you and eyezonhim were the best Dun players). Also some of the opponent were pretty bad so it's hard to say how dungeon fares against other races from watching this videos alone.
Hi,zerg, thanks for your reply.
I asked wyd247 for his views 2 days ago, he gave similar strategies. He suggested a might team, by mass Haste opening, with +2 +3 magic and +3 darkmagic, which enable 40 faceless t control 40 glories to walk out.
As I use might blood hero Realag, I make these complements:
turn 1
1.Mass Haste and puppet glories to walk out, attack her with shadow only .
2.After dancer attacks, hide her by racial abilities.
3.All big units use their abilities to attack other enemy(all +2 movement by haste), maybe crushader.
4.Lucker wait till shooter shoots(Haste), atk or def to maintain the spirit form.
turn 2
1.charge on dragon and cleave glories, then charge back to the front line, try to get 4 level racial abilities.
2.Dancer def or atk.
3.Lucer wait and atk.
Still not sure what is best to follow yet.
I don't know exploding secialization is banned. I will choose another one, maybe +2 Def like you, which will protect units from being killed too soon 
I also start to pick up my old magic tear inferno hero, trying to make her back to the duel.
wyd247 seems to have developed effective strategies against most races recently. I will ask for some typical video when he gets some.
As I am at shanghai in China, +8 time zone. You may see me more often at weekends. ^_^
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 27, 2013 08:45 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 22:39, 27 May 2013.
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Here is a little strategy with Dark Prophet vs Vindiator.
Week 4 army is less than in duels but anyways....first turn Fireball with one invis unit. Second turn Firestorm. Third turn only sun crusaders are a threat but they have GA , ok then I meditate. Turn 4 I cast shadow implosion -20 Crusaders and I make a gang bang on them with my units. GG
My magic power - 46
opponent magic defense - 26
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Icewolfnector
Hired Hero
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posted May 28, 2013 03:09 AM |
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After watching those videos that were linked here I totaly get the feeling that the 20% chance of terrifiying presence is totaly useless. It never triggers XD
But apart from that it's just pretty unfair that an enemy creature gets an extra hit on a stealthed unit it discovers. Especially if there are more than one...
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 29, 2013 08:20 AM |
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Withering breath deals 100% Darkness dmg so it is conparable to HA if you are magic vs moght you can do quite a bit of dmg.
Without WB - 4-5 Sun Crusaders
With WB - 10-11 Sun Crusaders
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 29, 2013 09:29 AM |
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In holidays currently but had few minutes to read the forum. Namelessesorder strategy is good on page 3, only thing is it is reliant on abyss dweller and haven player would defend with glories aftet blizzard, I know I would.. I have played wyd few times,:] won and lost few times. Nice to meet you on a side note I really dont like all these limitations imposed on some tournament map like exploding spikes speciality. Firstly, its not a tourney map so they dont apply, second its very subjective and only devs can make that call imo.
good day to everyone!
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted June 04, 2013 08:22 AM |
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started playing with Dungeon Might..it goes very well against all non-shooting cores week 1 and has no problem in creeping without regeneration.
against shooters there is no way to avoid losses because even if you move first with Ambush they will do more dmg than your reinforcements.
Regeneration is out of the question because you have 40 mana till level 6-7.
Here is a little tactic against shooters with one elite stack.
In Jungle Fever you can sacrifice movement to take Elite External Dwelling before taking mines which in my case were guarded by : 89 Skeletons, 92 Skeletons and 69 Goblin Hunters. If you don`t have Elite Dwelling you can take an elite stack from your town.
vs Goblin Hunters in 2 stacks(hardest is 1 or 2 stacks)
Thanks to ambush I get to move before the second stack and shoot them a bit with Pressed Attack on Chakram Dancers. Both stacks target my Manticore. It is left with 15 hp. I move my other stack of Manticores so that I can reach them but I am not within a full arrow`s range. They shoot again next round and target this same stack. This way I lose 65+50 hp but from 2 stacks so nobody dies Then I move my single assassin to block the remaining stack of Goblin Hunters and reinforce it. I continue shooting and in the end I didn`t lose anything - even the single assassin.
vs Skeletons in 1 stack
Skeletons kill you because you can`t decimate them fast with shooters and they deal might dmg so are dangerous for your units blocking them. But they have the least amount of init from core shooters and thanks to that I moved my Elite Stack forward but not in full arrow..bla bla..and it withstanded a shot from 73 skeltons and survived. The rest you know already.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted June 04, 2013 10:29 AM |
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Withering Breath vs Hailstorm Aura
I've played with Sanc might recently and i have to admit that after patch 2.1.0 hailstorm auta is no that strong as it used to be.
Anyway, in duel between Sanc might tears and Dun might tears kenseis and minotaurs have almost the same defense, so:
25 dragons deal 1098-1209, WB 1362-1501
30 Kirins deal 1212-1296, HA 1976-2060
I still believe that HA is better is most of the cases (but maybe not in magic vs might) but the difference is much smaller than what i thought it would be.
And also if i play Sanc in duels i mostly play Blood and honestly i rarely use HA then. It's more important to take advantage of heroic charge and twin fangs for me at least.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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Althea
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 09, 2013 08:21 PM |
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I think WB and HA are both equal. In short term HA is better, but in long term WB is better (if not dispelled). Well perhaps HA is slightly better.
You don't need to do actual testing to know it.
Just from the description, we can see that WB is related to black dragon's normal attack then modified by any modifier that can modify the WB damage. This means WB is 100% of the normal attack, plus 15% of the its initial damage then an increment of 1% per turn to a maximum of 20% total.
HA on the other hand is not related to sacred kirin normal attack, it's just 30 water damage plus modifier per sacred kirin.
If you look at sacred kirin normal attack and HA without modifier, it is listed as 60, and HA is 30 water damage, so we can conclude that HA damage is 150% of the normal attack.
HA and WB both have 3 turn cooldown.
So per 3 turn sacred kirin will do 150% normal attack damage.
While black dragon will do 148% (100%+15%+16%+17% ) normal attack damage.
Just 2% difference.
We know that both might modifier and magic modifier affect HA (because HA is normal attack + water damage), but it turns out that this is also the case with WB, meaning any might modifier will boost WB damage (like might power, Heroism/Mass Heroism, etc) through boosting the normal attack because WB damage is 100% of normal attack.
The good thing about WB is, if you WB the same target more than once, only the most damaging DoT (damage over time) stay, only higher damage DoT can replace it. This means even if the number of black dragon doing the WB is already decreased from full strength the DoT is as strong as the DoT from full strength black dragon. While HA won't have this luxury if it is presented with the same case. This is valid only if the DoT is not dispelled.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted June 09, 2013 10:35 PM |
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WB is 100% of normal attack but dealing magic dmg.
I doubt whether Magic or Might Power gives bonus to it though. I think MP..
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