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| Thread: And so China keeps stealing US secrets |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Elodin
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posted May 28, 2013 06:08 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 06:08, 28 May 2013.
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And so China keeps stealing US secrets
The US should declare its debts to China paid in full and immediately slap huge tariffs on all Chinese goods. This cyber-warfare is getting ridiculous.
Clicky
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Designs for more than two dozen major U.S. weapons systems have been compromised by Chinese hackers, the Washington Post reported on Monday.
Citing a report prepared for the Defense Department by the Defense Science Board, the newspaper said the compromised designs included combat aircraft and ships, as well as missile defense systems vital for Europe, Asia and the Gulf.
Among the weapons listed in the report were the advanced Patriot missile system, the Navy's Aegis ballistic missile defense systems, the F/A-18 fighter jet, the V-22 Osprey, the Black Hawk helicopter and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
The report did not specify the extent or time of the cyber-thefts and did not indicate if they involved computer networks of the U.S. government, contractors or subcontractors.
The Post said the computer espionage would give China knowledge that could be exploited in a conflict, such as knocking out communications and corrupting data. It also could speed Beijing's development of military technology and boost the Chinese defense industry.
In a report to Congress earlier this month, the Pentagon said China was using espionage to modernize its military and that its hacking was a serious concern. It said the U.S. government had been the target of hacking that appeared to be "attributable directory to the Chinese government and military." China dismissed the report as groundless.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 28, 2013 06:14 AM |
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China is outmatched one way or another and they know it. It's been pissing India off lately too with territorial disputes, and India+US is vastly stronger than China will ever be. They're sandwiched.
Not all countries are in an equal footing to start a trade war with China, and it would be suicide to our credit rating for the US to call all of its debts paid off (holy hell. You really think we should do that?), but we're in a good position to start being more sassy with them and countering their currency manipulation with tarriffs. They want to take their business elsewhere? kk. Have fun selling stuff to people that can't afford to buy it. Ra ra ra ra. US consumers are too valuable and there's nothing you can do about it.
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mvassilev
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posted May 28, 2013 06:48 AM |
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Quote:
The US should declare its debts to China paid in full and immediately slap huge tariffs on all Chinese goods.
How are private Chinese businesses responsible for the Chinese government's cyberwarfare? What you're essentially saying is that a private entity in the US should have to pay more to trade with a private entity with China because the Chinese government did something bad.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 28, 2013 07:04 AM |
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But isn't that beside the point? The point is to discourage China from hacking the US for information. If it does, it knows there are dangers attached to it.
I mean anytime there are actions between sovereign states, private entities can suffer that had no direct hand in anything.
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mvassilev
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posted May 28, 2013 07:06 AM |
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Yes, but that doesn't make it right. A more just form of retaliation would be to hack the Chinese government's computers.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 28, 2013 07:10 AM |
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Which doesn't make sense because China has far more to gain in hacking the US than the US has to gain in hacking China. Valuable strategic information, perhaps, but something tells me that the United States navy brass isn't exactly watering at the mouth to gain technical blueprints on Chinese destroyers, for example.
Which is why it makes more sense to answer in a way that will better get China's attention. Or do nothing at all. Besides, I'm sure we're already engaged in cyber-warfare with China. If we aren't, we should be.
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mvassilev
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posted May 28, 2013 07:12 AM |
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Sure, but China has other valuable information. Where it plans to spend money, where it has spies, etc.
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Zenofex
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posted May 28, 2013 07:44 AM |
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Thread translated: "It's not fair, them hackers better than us hackers! We want justice (and better hackers)!"
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blizzardboy
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posted May 28, 2013 07:48 AM |
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Except hacking the US is more of a goldmine than hacking China, which is why instead of being content peeping on each other from the shadows, the US should use it as political leverage to take other actions, such as slapping tariffs down.
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Zenofex
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posted May 28, 2013 07:51 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 07:51, 28 May 2013.
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Suit yourselves, that will hardly have any effect.
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Darkshadow
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posted May 28, 2013 07:53 AM |
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Quote:
Except hacking the US is more of a goldmine than hacking China, which is why instead of being content peeping on each other from the shadows, the US should use it as political leverage to take other actions, such as slapping tariffs down.
No, actually, it would be far more valuable to target Chinese intelligence operations rather than "waaa waaa we're little crybabies and gonna tariff u now"
Although this thread doesn't actually seem to be about Chinese hacking but rather wanting to hurt Chinese business.
Sucks to be on the receiving end of unfair competition doesn't it?
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Doomforge
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posted May 28, 2013 08:36 AM |
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So instead of improving your own cyber-defenses, you would rather put tax on Chinese goods?  Surprising you don't call for a peaceful democracy spread via Tomahawk missiles
And here I thought you first have to determine their guilt, and then prove they are Chinese-government aligned? Where's the presumption of innocence?
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Elodin
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posted May 28, 2013 09:01 AM |
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Quote:
Not all countries are in an equal footing to start a trade war with China, and it would be suicide to our credit rating for the US to call all of its debts paid off (holy hell. You really think we should do that?), but we're in a good position to start being more sassy with them and countering their currency manipulation with tarriffs. They want to take their business elsewhere? kk. Have fun selling stuff to people that can't afford to buy it. Ra ra ra ra. US consumers are too valuable and there's nothing you can do about it.
I did not say declare all debts to all nations paid off. Declare debts to China paid off as payment for the technologies they have stolen. Place heavy tarrifs on their goods until they prove they can behave and not steal our technologies.
Chinese buisiness can take up payment with their government who "purchased" the debt via their theft of US property.
One thing's for sure, just saying, "Hey stop stealing our stuff" is not working.
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Zenofex
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posted May 28, 2013 09:10 AM |
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Probably next you will start crying that intelligence agencies around the world don't respect other countries' privacy (while for example CIA certainly does).
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mvassilev
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posted May 28, 2013 09:13 AM |
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Quote:
Chinese buisiness can take up payment with their government who "purchased" the debt via their theft of US property.
You think the Chinese government can afford to buy so much US debt because they steal US technology? Really?
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted May 28, 2013 10:51 AM |
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How does one verify that it's the Chinese? It seems like a baseless assertion, since the facts of the statement cannot be analyzed/scrutinized, so I feel uneasy discussing this topic without evidence that it was the Chinese government that hacked.
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blizzardboy
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posted May 28, 2013 10:58 AM |
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The cost it would incur from the huge increase on all of its borrowing rates from doing something like canceling all Chinese debt would be much more expensive than if the US were to keep paying on it. China would need to do something much, much worse than steal information if the US were to try to get away with that without a massive backlash on its credit.
I'm still not seeing a good reason not to hit them with tariffs though unless you can show that it would almost certainly be worse for the US economy to attempt that, in which case I'd change my mind. Get better hackers / HOW DOES IT FEEL? / guilty until proven innocent don't really mean much in international politics.
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Darkshadow
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posted May 28, 2013 11:17 AM |
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And you're sure you want this "tariff" because of "Supposed hacking"? 
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blizzardboy
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posted May 28, 2013 11:29 AM |
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Well right, to clarify, it's more about currency manipulation than actual hacking. Considering the world's biggest spy network is in the US (which I approve of having) I doubt and don't expect we're going to get much sympathy when it comes to having information stolen. If I was China I'd try to steal our **** too. Events like this are still a good staging point to try to set up tariffs though.
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xerox
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posted May 28, 2013 11:39 AM |
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Why tariffs? Wouldn't it be better to focus on your own cyber defense instead of targeting innocent businessmen and entrepreneurs?
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