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| Thread: Protests turning into a small scale uprising. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted June 03, 2013 10:58 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 23:00, 03 Jun 2013.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 03, 2013 11:20 PM |
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Well, one thing is wrong on his blog. I think it's an honest mistake caused by the language barrier. The government didn't shut down the media. The media itself looked the other way during the first days. However, the reaction to that was so massive over the internet (mainstream media and major news channels got protested almost as much as the government), they had to modify that attitude a little bit. Still, some Pro-Government press and TV represents the incidents as vandalism by radical groups and such.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted June 04, 2013 12:26 AM |
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Thanks for checking the source material, it is a good read nevertheless as I haven't heard too much of personal experience. Our media is quite vague about what is going on, although the keep covering the subject daily.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 04, 2013 10:17 AM |
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Edited by artu at 10:19, 04 Jun 2013.
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My dad's favorite band as a young man was Pink Floyd. I kind of grew up listening to them all the time, so this kind of makes me smile:
A note from Roger Waters regarding Turkey.
To all my friends in Turkey
I am with you! We are with you! You are so right to resist the forces of autocracy and repression. It doesn't matter who they are.
If I read the Internet right, in your case, you are resisting autocratic religious zealots.
Turkey is your country and we support you and yearn for your freedom, but also, you and your struggle are so important to the rest of the world.
Every time a man or woman or child takes to the streets, and stands up for human rights, for self determination, for democracy, for Mistress Liberty, the rest of the world is in debt.
We are not physically with you in the water cannon's fire, in the tear gas clouds, but we are with you in spirit.
We applaud your stand for we know it is not easy.
Your great country stands at the gateway between east and west. Constantinople is legend in the history of civilization. Your resistance today may well be a turning point between all of us and a return to the dark ages.
THERE IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT YOU ARE DOING TODAY:
With love, and tears, and huge respect,
Roger Waters.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted June 04, 2013 11:43 AM |
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Yeah, the militant atheist zealot Roger Waters doing yet more religion bashing makes me smile too. Not. The conflict appears to not have one thing to do with any religion. He could say something intelligent from time to time if not for his seeming hatred for religion--that makes him go off the deep end.
____________
Revelation
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 04, 2013 12:38 PM |
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Edited by artu at 12:38, 04 Jun 2013.
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Zealot Roger Waters? That rubber and glue thing again ha, Elodin... The conflict, as I said earlier is mostly because of Erdogan's condescending attitude that seems to turn more and more authoritarian by each passing year. The protest at Gezi Park was the flame, not the core. Now, this may seem totally irrelevant to religion but since AKP's (Erdogan's party in power)Islamic background and tendencies has a lot to do with his attitude, it is not. The people who has a secular life-style are fed up with this attitude, not only coming from Erdogan but also from his circle of politicians and voters. Just before the incidents, when Erdogan was defending the law that restricts alcohol sale after 22:00 (not in bars or cafes, but in grocery stores) and restricting it completely in gas stations and anywhere that is 100 meters near a temple or a school, he said people who use alcohol are drunks and addicts for example, he said something like "why care about a law two drunks passed" and most people had the impression he was referring to the founding father of Turkey, Mustafa Kemal (who is known for secularizing the republic, also a heavy drinker). A lot of public schools being turned into Imam Hatip schools, that are giving a more religious education, announcements in subway stations warning couples to behave decently (only because they kiss during the trip), party members behaving like only conservative Muslims are the real people and rest of us are degenerate, elitist, corrupted-by-Western-culture snobs, whenever they talk about having values its only meaning being a good Muslim etc etc...
This has all something to do with religion. Oh, and yes, there are Muslims who are in the protests too, but those are usually leftist Muslims and their problem with Erdogan is his integration with global capitalism, not his Islamic tendencies.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 04, 2013 12:55 PM |
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Edited by artu at 12:55, 04 Jun 2013.
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Loved this one, the girl in the front is a friend. Some time ago, in one of his speeches Erdogan said "have at least three children" Like most conservatives, he wants big families. The card in the picture says:
You want 3 children like us?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 05, 2013 12:00 AM |
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 05, 2013 02:26 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 02:31, 05 Jun 2013.
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How well is democracy (elections) working in Turkey?
The start of the video is lovely<3
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 05, 2013 11:04 AM |
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Edited by artu at 11:05, 05 Jun 2013.
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Quote:
How well is democracy (elections) working in Turkey?
There may be some individual incidents of misconduct here and there but overall they work fine. So this is not like the Arab Spring where people had the same dictators for 40-50 years... AKP won the elections by getting 50% of the votes. The rest of the people, who are not usually conservative Muslims have their votes divided mainly by CHP (Kemalists), MHP (Nationalists), BDP (Kurds). Liberals and socialists don't have a major party since they are weak in numbers. Problem is AKP does not come from a democratic tradition, so the way they perceive things is, since I'm majority, I can do whatever the hell I want. The concept of minorities, no matter how small, having the same rights as them is not computing. It has no respect or empathy towards almost half of the country's life-style, expectations and demands. And since Erdogan is so sure that his party will win the next election as there is no single rival political party that is a real threat to him, he gets more and more authoritarian and condescending.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted June 05, 2013 02:22 PM |
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I have a hard time seeing this is good for the current party's popularity in the next election.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 05, 2013 05:33 PM |
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Maybe not in urban areas. That's not where the non-secular people live.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 05, 2013 10:08 PM |
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Quote:
I have a hard time seeing this is good for the current party's popularity in the next election.
Well, that's kind of the point of all this, isn't it.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted June 12, 2013 05:00 AM |
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What is the status there? I read about layers being arrested... not looking brighter as of yet.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 12, 2013 06:53 AM |
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Today it got harsh again in Taksim. It's been two weeks now and there's no sign of backing down from Erdogan. I really dont know how long can people keep this up, maybe it s best to stop while the effect is fresh...
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted June 12, 2013 09:00 PM |
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I have not been here a long time but I always wanted to get the perspective from someone with insider news.
So artu, how is normal life going on in Istanbul or is the city overfilled with police?
Non turks partaking in the protest get deported immediately, so I heard at least. Erdogan seems to misunderstand how democracy works and well, its not suprising if he sees a figure model in Putin.
If the mosque gets built in Taksim square, that thing would never be touched again, let alone bulldozed. Public outcry would be to high.
Democracy has a lot of good and bad things. One of the bad things is that it can kill itself. Like democratically voting for an undemocratic entity.
Sad to see that a part of the population is considered 2nd class to the "Religious" 1st class from the prime minister.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 12, 2013 09:13 PM |
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Regular life goes on if you're not a shop owner or a resident in the areas where the crowds are gathering. I live very close to Taksim Square and apart from a few convoys honking horns and folks drumming spoons and pots every once in a while, everything "looks" normal. Of course people are tense and they keep following the news constantly. Another problem is people who are living right on the spot of these events are inhaling tear gas all the time since the police went frenzy about using it all the time. I read somewhere, the amount of tear gas used in a week is more than the tear gas used in all Europe in all the year 2012.
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Damacon_Ace
Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
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posted June 13, 2013 10:19 AM |
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Interesting. If those riots are against the Turkish Government because of their push for Sharia Law, then I can understand a bit (Turkey until recently prided on having secular law in a place where strict Islamic law reigns supreme).
But if these riots are simply a tool of communists, anarchists or athiest zealots (as Elodin pointed out), then I have no sympathy for them. Can't think of how life might have been under the People's Republic of Afghanistan from 1979 - 1988 (I know this is unrelated).
____________
No one knows my true nature here...
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted June 13, 2013 02:38 PM |
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Edited by artu at 14:39, 13 Jun 2013.
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What a rich, realistic spectrum you have there: Sharia Law or Communism. It's about neither, there are of course communists among them but they are probably like 0.0001 percent of the protesters, just like conservatives who actually want Sharia Law are also a very small minority.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted June 13, 2013 04:07 PM |
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Quote:
Can't think of how life might have been under the People's Republic of Afghanistan from 1979 - 1988
It was terrible. They were denied the opportunity to slaughter each other because the Soviets were slaughtering them and they were slaughtering the Soviets. Right after the end of the occupation they entered the blissful state of a civil war and shortly after that the enlightened rule of the Talibans started (because the locals eventually decided that too much bliss is not good for the health). Several years later some people from more-than-half a world away started dropping bombs on their heads. Heaven on earth.
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