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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: Game Of Thrones Discussion ~ *OURS* is the fury
Thread: Game Of Thrones Discussion ~ *OURS* is the fury This thread is 15 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 · «PREV / NEXT»
Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
A - Ω
posted April 07, 2014 02:20 PM

I was referring to the blonde kid.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness" Jenny.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 07, 2014 03:39 PM

Joffrey doesn't get snow done. He has a gaggle of lickspittles and catspaws to do whatever he needs for him, none of which actually accomplishes anything for him. I AM THE KING11111 ::takes a cowpie in the face::
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 07, 2014 03:52 PM

Exactly, without Tywin, his grandfather and his mother constantly cleaning up after him, he would have been fertilizer long ago. He is too unlikable to lead, too self-involved to outsmart anyone, too arrogant to learn anything from his mistakes and basically a spoiled sociopath, not the Machiavellian type of sociopath though.

Btw, I was puzzled by the flower guy but then I've read somewhere it's a recast of Daario Naharis. I hate it when they switch actors.

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
A - Ω
posted April 07, 2014 04:38 PM

As I said to many of my friends, Dario may have had a face that looked like it was hammered together, but he had a unique and well fitting personality, the new guy is just off imho, a totally new character. (which is essentially what he is or should be, rather than trying to copy paste and hope that nobody would notice)
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness" Jenny.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 07, 2014 04:51 PM

Quote:
(which is essentially what he is or should be, rather than trying to copy paste and hope that nobody would notice)

I think that only works when the character itself is replaced not the actor. For example main character has a wife in the show but the actress quits, so they kill the character off in the story with a car accident and now, there is this new woman who just moved in net door. In such a situation, the new character shouldn't be a replication of the old wife character. But when they switch just the actors a different personality doesn't make sense.

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Baklava
Baklava


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted April 09, 2014 04:19 PM

Just in case you people missed this one.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted April 09, 2014 04:35 PM

I approve
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friendofgunnar
friendofgunnar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
posted April 10, 2014 04:51 AM

Here's a question for yall:
Are there evil gods in the GOT universe, and if so, what keeps them in check?

You can use either book or tv references to make your case.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted April 10, 2014 07:48 AM

It would seem so. If there is a God of Light/Fire that is opposed to the onslaught of the whitewalkers, I am betting there is a God of Ice/Darkness behind them. I was wondering what is the significance behind the title of ice and fire but after the last season I believe it refers to this.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted April 10, 2014 09:24 AM

I think it's like the rest of the GoT universe, rather than a dualistic battle of good and evil, there are conflict of interest between different parties (supernatural forces in this case). So I figure the metaphysical realm of GoT is more like Ancient Greece rather than Biblical, there are Gods fighting each other, getting jealous etc etc but none of them can be called purely good or evil.  The whitewalkers are zombie like and zombies are mindless not evil like vampires or mummies.

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


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A - Ω
posted April 10, 2014 10:43 AM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 10:50, 10 Apr 2014.

It would take you one episode to see that this isn't a battle or even a struggle between good and evil, but spheres, different spheres that collide or get extinguished that represent different ideals, and perhaps cater to only a specific family. Hell the Red Wedding was an unmissable opportunity to win a war, some would argue that it was good, since it saved countless lives of soldiers and ended one war, with only a few thousand northerners and their lords having to suffer, while some disgruntled fans argued that the good guys have died so time to stop watching the show. The northerners were anything but good, beheading the second most powerful lord for foreseeing the inevitable collapse of the northern army all thanks to the sexual promiscuity of Rob, is not something a ""good"" person (or people) would do. (""good""= infallible, chivalrous, oath-keeper and with the highest moral standards, but even this can be 'bad' in certain situations)

Since I don't believe in a universal good and evil (merely a subjective form) I think this show is very attractive, they turned LOTR and even the Hobbit into a good vs evil battle, when in the books it clearly wasn't. So I'm glad that they're keeping things in perspective. (even though they're not keeping to the books, but that would be improbable, and you guys know it)
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness" Jenny.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 14, 2014 09:33 AM

FINALLY. HALLELLUYAH!
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted April 14, 2014 09:51 AM

Lexxan said:
FINALLY. HALLELLUYAH!


So I guess it happened?
I'll just wait for the whole season to end, so I can happily torrent it and watch it in one day.

Also, imo it should have happened in like a middle of the season.
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
zombie
posted April 14, 2014 01:54 PM

Watching some GoT cause I have nothing to do... How can you all bear the pace at which you get the story? Sooo many dead persons/zombies/etc walking, it's at once funny and disconcerting.
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Now I only want you gone...
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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted April 14, 2014 11:44 PM

George R. R. Martin captures very realistic fight for the throne in his fantasy epic, I don't see it as confusing.

most of the people whinig about it are just pussies. I mean, 'cmon it's a medieval setting. thing's weren't cute, white and fuzzy back then. Get the snow over it.
____________
Lithuanian folklore:
The Good and the Evil grab a few beers and go to watch how the neighbor's house is burning down.
* * *
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Azagal
Azagal


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Smooth Snake
posted April 15, 2014 03:57 AM

Today was a good day.
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"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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friendofgunnar
friendofgunnar


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Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
posted April 15, 2014 09:22 AM
Edited by friendofgunnar at 09:26, 15 Apr 2014.

Episode 4.2 spoilers



Game of Thrones

I'm over it.

Before I explain why though, I'll share the reason why I found it so interesting in the first place.  RRM has consistantly said that when he wrote the series he was inspired by the war of the Roses, which was an epic multi-generational contest for the throne of England at the very end of the medieval period.  I found the series interesting because it fairly accurately depicted a social structure that was a phase in the evolution of European society.  A phase that is at once bizarre to modern sensibilities and yet fairly coherent as a self-enclosed system.  

From a narrative perspective though things have kind of gotten out of hand...

#1  Joffrey was 14 when he decided to have Ned Stark beheaded, even though his mother and the council was against it.  This is bizarre that anybody would willingly live in a society where 14 year olds could make decisions like that.  There's no society in the world that actually lets children, even royal children, make decisions before they reach their majority.  There's always a regent that governs in their stead.  In GoT it would have been the queen or one of the council that was giving the orders.  Iln Payne would've paid attention to the adults because it was the adults that 'signed his paycheck' as it were.

This is kind of like a movie where the characters are so stupid you kind of hope they die.  The entire ruling class of the Westeros bought into this ridiculous system so why should I care if any of them die?


#2 Dany is clearly somebody you can root for.  However there's a lot of disbelief to overcome in her plot line.  Specifically in regards to the slave soldiers.  It's difficult to believe in the concept of making toned, trained warriors out of boys who are castrated (no testosterone).  It's also difficult to accept the idea that you could arm people and train them to kill with no mercy and yet still have control over them.

As far as I can tell there was only one society in human history that made warriors out of slaves, that was the Ottoman mamelukes.  And there was a huge difference there because even though they were owned they were still highly respected and also had a chance to find loot in warfare and buy freedom for both themselves and their families.  Also, nobody cut their balls off.


#3 Here's the biggie.  This has to do with the 3 leeches scene that was in the TVDramatization (but not in the books).  In this scene Melissandre draws 3 leeches worth of blood from Gendry, then Stannis tosses them on the fire and names Joffrey, Robb, and Balon (the Iron Islands king).  All three of these eventually die of course.  So there's two possibilities here:

A.  This little act directly led to the death of the 3 kings, which means that there is an entity capable of affecting people's free will. If this is truly the case I'm automatically over GoT because it means all the characters are just puppets.  It's not necessary to believe this however because the Queen of Thorns was more than likely going to try to poison Joffrey anyway (remember she was the one that pulled a poison bead from her hair net at the royal wedding and dropped it in Joffrey's cup).  Also Lord Frey had it in for Robb Stark for several highly emotional reasons.  No need to bend free will there.  Balon fell off a bridge in a storm, so that's not really a problem either (it's implied that his brother Euron might have had something to do with it though).  

However!  This means choice B
B.  Melissandre was communicating with a some type of highly powerful figure that knew all this was going to happen anyway.  This agency could read minds (Queen of Thorns and Lord Frey) and also look into the future (Balon).  This is not a mere demon or supernatural force, this kind of power indicates a full fledged god.

Now, Melissandre has been saying all along that the lord of light wants the sacrifice of one of Robert's bahstahds in order for Stannis to take the throne.  This demand for the death of an innocent clearly marks this god figure as being evil.  No matter which way you slice it, this scene means that the GoT universe is ruled by an evil god.  There isn't the faintest trace of any type of compensating force for good.  Remember that the seven are treated as old superstitions and there's absolutely nothing in the book so far that suggests they actually exist.

What this means that in the GoT universe there is no morality because the only good that can come to individual is based on what they do to satisfy the lord of light's whims.

Remember of course this scene wasn't in the books.  RRMartin must have approved it however, which makes it look like he doesn't really have too strong a conceptual grip on his own universe anymore.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted April 15, 2014 09:57 AM
Edited by Lexxan at 09:58, 15 Apr 2014.

Well for what it's worth, Book 5 revealed that Melissandre has visions whenever she conjures up the flames and is therefore able to see in the future. She however doesn't get the context of the visions she sees and is wont to misinterpret them. (most notably the Azor Ahai vision which she thinks pertains to Stannis but probably is about Jon - who keeps on appearing in her flames).

There's a LOT of lore to A Song of Ice and Fire and it's hard to determine which ones are true and which ones aren't. Nearly every religion though has one being of surpreme power and "good" (e.g. the Seven are, in fact, One Entity split in seven avatars, each representing a different aspect of Westerosi Society) and an enemy that is the polar opposite.

This is a huge background theme in the books, the duality between Fire (R'hillor, the Seven, the Old Gods?) and Ice (The Others, the Drowned God, The Old Enemy), which in itself is ties back to the two protagonists in this series that have little to do with the events that happen in Westeros: Jon and Daenerys. I am pretty damn' sure either Jon or Daenerys will "win" the Game of Thrones.


More on topic, I think the leech scene was added in the series just so that they didn't have to kill off Gendry. With several of Robert's snows still alive in the books (including Gendry), they might play a part in the future.

and yasss, Joffrey is finally dead <3 Ramsay is wayyy worse though.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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MightyMage
MightyMage


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Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 15, 2014 12:46 PM

NOOOOOOO!  Not Good King Jeffery!  

He was so young and full of wisdom.  A true leader.  

I'm gonna go tweet angry stuff at G.R.R.M. now #PURPLEWEDDINGISUPERSAD

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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage.  For he is all I could ever
want to be!
- OhforfSake

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
A - Ω
posted April 15, 2014 12:50 PM

I think that he had potential, I mean if you give ultimate power to a troll child of course he's going to **** with everything and everyone. Joffrey didn't get the chance to mature, now he never will.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness" Jenny.

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