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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Playing Preserve
Thread: Playing Preserve [ This thread is 3 pages long: 1 (2) 3 ]
Milena
Milena


Responsible
Supreme Hero
in supreme disgrace
posted April 05, 2002 07:18 AM

Camelnor

Why do you forget the blind? And they are soooo cute

*laughing her belly off*
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Milena

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 05, 2002 07:30 AM

how quick do you get decent summoning?

Preserve only town I haven't played much yet, just one game and my hero never got beyond advanced nature cause I switched to a knight/tactics/life magic main I got from a tavern, but... I'm curious how quickly you can get enough magic ability to summon the elves and better things at 2-3 a day? Seems you'd need it very early, week 1 or week 2 to make much difference...

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undead_wolf_...
undead_wolf_lad


Adventuring Hero
Undead Wolf Wrangler
posted April 06, 2002 02:39 AM
Edited By: undead_wolf_lad on 5 Apr 2002

Wesley, LOL that you (with your red riding hood avatar) don't like wolves...

Wolves are great although a small range in the game (patch to up their speed and range slightly?)...I mean c'mon, wolves are only 7 MOVE and 7 SPEED. Bandits, a level 1 unit have a greater range with MOVE 9 and SPEED 7? I'd love to see that footrace...wolves versus a human and the human wins??? B.S.
But wolves are great Hero killers. Getting two hits in is great, just never charge into battle with wolves, wait til every one moves...
a little help with Terrain Walk or Haste and you can cruise across the battlefield and assassinate Heroes...yay!!!


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"where's a damn werewolf when you need one?"

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FuriousGeorge
FuriousGeorge


Hired Hero
posted April 10, 2002 04:37 AM

Quote:
I'm curious how quickly you can get enough magic ability to summon the elves and better things at 2-3 a day? Seems you'd need it very early, week 1 or week 2 to make much difference...


Well you can get GM skill in anything in 1 scenario. In the 3rd Order scenario towards the end i was hiring new heroes from the tavern, sticking them in my uber stack, and leveling the guy from 1 to 10 in a single combat due to the power level of the enemies involved.

Summoning is best used to get access to those troops you wouldn't normally get, like elementals (assuming the portal is used for Mantis/Faerie Dragon). Like most of the magic tertiary skills, it's nice but not the focus (the spells are the focus).


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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted April 10, 2002 10:07 AM

Quote:
>>> Cat

People have been going on and on about griffins... because they rock.  They have much superior stats to unicorns, and one of the coolest specials, unlimited retaliation.  Just get 5-10 griffins early, and put them alone in a stack, and send them on a killing spree.  



So?  If the griffins are stripped of their special by magic, what are they worth?  Unicorns have blind.. If you cast 'slayer' on them, they can kill off the best part of a level 4 stack and also blind them, leaving you free to attack other pesky but numerous stacks.  However, I think in the next patch, unicorns should be made faster...
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag

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Flashman
Flashman


Adventuring Hero
posted April 10, 2002 03:09 PM

If the unicorns are confused they won't be of much good either....if if if

I haven't really played the preserve yet but I must say that the giffin looks much better than the unicorn on paper.

/Flash
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arachnid
arachnid


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 10, 2002 03:45 PM

Quote:

So?  If the griffins are stripped of their special by magic, what are they worth?  Unicorns have blind.. If you cast 'slayer' on them, they can kill off the best part of a level 4 stack and also blind them, leaving you free to attack other pesky but numerous stacks.  However, I think in the next patch, unicorns should be made faster...


So your saying that unicorns are better than griffins IF a spell is used to make the griffins crap and one to make the unicorns better? Doesnt that just prove griffins are better?
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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted April 10, 2002 04:00 PM

No... as if the unicorns are stripped they will still do fine... since you are all already Griffin fans, I could say 'Because the Griffin is the Antichrist' and you still wouldn't care.. lol!

I prefer the unicorns as you get one more a week and they have higher attack and defense... 1 extra a week can mean a lot.. never underestimate sheer numbers... I also prefer to have a walker, as I will have a level 4 flyer...
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag

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undead_wolf_...
undead_wolf_lad


Adventuring Hero
Undead Wolf Wrangler
posted April 10, 2002 05:11 PM

I've been playing the Preserve Campaign and I gotta go with the Griffons over the unicorns...
they have a better range and more hit points...oh, and they have unlimited retaliation
Blind is nice, but it doesn't always occur, where retaliating always does for the griffons.
Plus, the griffons don't look like My Little Ponies
____________
"where's a damn werewolf when you need one?"

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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted April 10, 2002 08:24 PM

Quote:
I've been playing the Preserve Campaign and I gotta go with the Griffons over the unicorns...
they have a better range and more hit points...oh, and they have unlimited retaliation
Blind is nice, but it doesn't always occur, where retaliating always does for the griffons.
Plus, the griffons don't look like My Little Ponies


Have you been talking to my mum?  worse... are you my mum??!
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag

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brody
brody


Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
posted April 10, 2002 09:13 PM

Hmm... I haven't yet played preserve, but I've fought plenty of both griffins and unicorns, and I have to say unicorns tend to be harder to kill, despite the unlimited retaliations.  I don't know the stats of the two offhand, but I never send melee troops against unicorns.  I think griffins are better for offense and unicorns for defense (from fighting against them, anyway), so I don't see one as being MUCH better than another, they're just for different functions.
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jondifool
jondifool


Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
posted April 10, 2002 10:31 PM

Analysing Unicorn vs Griffs

Interesting ?
But why should Griffins be better for offense and unicorns for defense ?

We have a walker up against a flyer and 2 very different special abilitys involved!!

The Griff is the better tank ? And what do I mean by that! A tank is something you put up in front to take a beating!
Well Unlimeted retaliations does means that it still deals damage when gangbanged!! But how often are you ready for a exposing your self for a ganging up against your stack taking the losses involved!
The most obvius case is when you have a shooter army and and is putting a tank up to stop the enemy army to get to your shooters!! (also trying to take out an enemy hero is good choise). In thosse cases flying is also better than walking when to chosse the most hampering attack spot, or just to get there fast enough!
As I said before a very good spell then on a big stack of griffs is first strike!!

The unicorn on the other hand would be better at protecting a shooter army from a single stack being able to getting over to harrass your shooters!! If you can't outright kill an enemy stack, then blind is a nice special to pacify it! A walker would in general not be much worse of in getting in position to protect a shooter army!!

Now on the other hand when using the lightning strike !!
which means most troops to engage enemy and wear it down nearly as fast as posible (think of tigers and phoenix, wolfs and sprites, together with either unicorns or griffs all waiting and then to hit what they can in round 2) who is then best!!

In case you come with a winning army, it just means that your griffs is not going to be target for a gangbang , other stacks are first target. So the unlimited retaliation would not be of much value. In an equal battle or when you are the underdog!! the same thing might happend, because shooters and spells would properly wear down the grifs, so again unlimited retaliations is not of much use (though still nice).

On the other hand Unicorns blind might turn the battle for you , it might pacify an anoying enemy stack and by that win the battle or let you inflict some serius casualtys! The effect of blinding is often that you are allowed to gang up against some of the enemy stacks!!And that you prevent the blinded stack for joining a gang attack on one off your stack.

And finally You might actual want the unicorn to be the unit off yours to suffer the losses you eventually takes, (better than its your phoenix) because the unicorns special doesn't care about how big the stack is, making it usefull even in small numbers!! But this just doesn't make it a better tank , it makes it good to have in the front together with other stacks!

What hampers the unicorn is that as a walker it might not be able to get into a good position in the lightning strike which would be no problem for the griff!!

So to tell if you should want griffs over unicorn, look at you playing style,

shooting + tank = griff
shooting + defensive lurking= unicorn
lightning strike + flexibility in move = grif
lightning strike + posible hampering the enemy = unicorn

To me thesse considerations makes a lot more sense than comparing the price and stats and building path of 4 griffs against 5 unicorns! Not to talk about how cute they look!
But I am aware that going into detail on this level might be total nonense to a lot of you! Well please ignore it! But to you who disagree please join the topic!

with regards
Jondifool

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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience

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FuriousGeorge
FuriousGeorge


Hired Hero
posted April 11, 2002 02:21 AM
Edited By: FuriousGeorge on 10 Apr 2002

Griffins are damn sweet with First Strike or Defender, but just a vanilla Griffin vs. Unicorn, i'll take the Unicorn any day.

Making use of the special ability (sans above spells) means your Griffin unit is getting pummeled. If it's a tough enemy, your unit is gone. If it's an easy enemy, who cares. Blind however, is *especially* useful vs. opponents stronger than you are.

As for stats, per unit is not as meaningful as power produced per day and per gold.  Here are some stats:

Griffons lag Unicorns in power generated both PER DAY and PER GOLD.

___________PER UNIT__PER DAY___PER 100 GOLD
___________Off_Def__Off_Def___Off___Def
Sprite_____15__70___49__230___68.2__224.0
Wolf_______45__108__96__231__125.0__267.9
Elf_______112__288__96__247___50.9__43.6
Tiger_____133__665__133_665___70.0__70.0
Griffon___361_1805__206_1031__45.1__25.8
Unicorn___320_1600__229_1143__49.2__35.2
Faerie____630_6380__180_1823__15.8__4.5
Phoenix__1540_7700__440_2200__38.5__11.0

Off Pow = AvgDam x Attack
Def Pow = Health x Defense

However, Griffons look MUCH cooler. Needless to say, i always pick Griffons.

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Flashman
Flashman


Adventuring Hero
posted April 11, 2002 08:24 AM

I played some preserve yesterday and I'm not so sure about grifs vs. unis anymore.

Grifs are still the better unit but in order to get them you have to build a citadel which is bad news considering you're already low on wood if you went with rangers.

Unis seem much more cost effective now.

/dev

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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted April 11, 2002 07:43 PM

They are.. the pre requistite for the uni building is the rainbow, which is cheap.. I always go for elves, which means all my wood goes early... It's is (often) a faster route to the level 4 dwelling to build unicorn's rather than griffins.

I am a defensive not offensive player, as Jondi has described.. I would therefore take

Level 1: Both, obviously...
Level 2: Elves
Level 3: Unicorn
Level 4: Phoenix (I prefer rebirth over random spellcasting)

From the portal, I will initially buy mantisis, then fire elementals and then waspworts, and make a second army out of these and send it off with another hero (I have 2 in my 1st army)

The remainng elementals I sent off round the map to fight various treasure guards.  My 2nd hero can flag mines and dwellings and my initial hero can gain xp and be reserved for fighting.

That's my style... and uni's fit it nicely
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag

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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted April 11, 2002 07:56 PM

unicorns have 3 advantages over griffins:

1- blinding of course.  Seems to happen about 1/3 of the time
2- MUCH cheaper to produce structure.  about 7,500 gold instead of 13,000 gold
3- 5 unicorns / week.  4 griffins / week.

for creature portal: go for the water elementals.  They do 11 damage fixed apiece, and you get 10 / week (vs 1.1 per week with mantis).  they are certainly the best elemental for attacking level 4 units, and can't be blocked  

waspworts aren't bad either because you get lots of them, but they aren't worth slowing down an army.  they're perfect for castle guards (unexpected emergencies).
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models.  Well ... the ones his age (18-26)  

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 18, 2003 05:22 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 18 Oct 2003

No use of arguing about which creature is better (Griffin or Unicorn), because you have no choice. If you have citadel prebuilt, you have to go for Griffins (faster to build and you need the creature portal badly), if no citadel prebuilt, it is obviously Unicorn, who has 7500 gold, 10 wood, 10 ore to waste?

Mantis is better (than Water elemental), now I am convinced, because it is faster on the Adventure map.

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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted October 18, 2003 10:19 AM

what if you have 2 nature towns, 1st has citadel other not.
gotcha

then you go by the map i guess, or by the mood or by the luck , mistake, misclick..
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Tyler
Tyler


Known Hero
posted October 18, 2003 01:03 PM

Man listening to the posts from one year ago sure reminds me of the time i was playng h4 single player...Sure i finished all campaignes on champion level...but when i played my first game on toh i realized how much i'm doing wrong...should be the reason that they stucked to h3...do dissrespect...just my opinion
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Sir, we are surrounded! Excellent, now we can attack in any direction!

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 18, 2003 03:58 PM

I go Griffins for #1 and Unicorns for #2 well, that was easy.
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Yes, I play the game only on the forums.

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