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Heroes Community > Other Games Exist Too > Thread: Hearthstone
Thread: Hearthstone This Popular Thread is 155 pages long: 1 20 40 60 80 100 120 140 ... 145 146 147 148 149 ... 155 · «PREV / NEXT»
blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 06, 2018 07:00 PM
Edited by blob2 at 19:01, 06 May 2018.

It's hard to play a Paladin deck which does not strafe into 'cancer' territory. And most of them are aggro... aside from Murloc Paladin which seems to always be strong, I'm especially surprised that the so-called Dude Paladin emerged in WW, while I played a similiar deck long before it and I've always asked myslef why such a strong deck does not see more play.

I've recently watched Kripps review of the WW and while I understand his reasoning, I wouldn't judge the expansion as harsh as him. We can all agree that the issue with the current meta (dominance of practically the same decks as in K&C minus some Priest variants) is the power level of some K&C cards which persisted and work wonders even with Standard rotation in place. Not WW itself. Cards like Call to Arms, Spiteful Summoner, Possesed Lackey and Dark Pact have such an impact on the game that it's very hard to counter them, and it's hard to imagine decks without them.

Why am I saying this? Imo Witchwood is still a fun expansion, I'm having a lot more fun with the cards then I initially though, and there are still some new things to try which show the potential of this xpac. For me it's a shame it is judged harshly because it "failed" to divert the meta after K&C.

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watcher83
watcher83


Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
posted May 07, 2018 07:40 AM
Edited by watcher83 at 07:51, 07 May 2018.

In the brawliseum I went for a twig/duskfallen aviana/malygos druid, ended with a 6-3 record; the 6 games won aviana didn't help, but she did lose 2 of my 3 lost games. Looking back, if I had one rumaging kobold instead of aviana my result would have been much better I think

In regards to what blob said about the late rise of dude paladin last patch, this happens quite often, I remember that before msog I played a lot of pirate warrior, the deck was pretty good and I had good results with it, but only after patches and small time bucaneer when it turned to cancer, everybody started playing it. Back in vanilla everybody was playing taunt druid with just 1 copy of force of nature and savage roar, I always played with 2, but only after Loatheb, shredders and boom people started playing the more offensive version, and ofc after Thaurissan in turned cancerous. Barnes was cool when played with a bunch of deathrattle minions, but then people figured out that u just play barnes and Y'shaarj and things went to hell.  
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 07, 2018 07:58 PM
Edited by blob2 at 23:40, 07 May 2018.

Some cards are regarded so-so or even weak until someone figures out a great use for it. Let's take Grand Archivist for instance. Appears weak until you discover he can play Mind Control which will always take an opponents minion Not to mention Possesed Lackey which was regarded a huge tempo-loss until it turned out a cheated out Voidlord, or Doomguard without backslash is huge...

Maybe there's also a hidden combo for Duskfallen Aviana?

EDIT: First some words from Iksar, and after that an official statement that there will be nerfs at the end of May. Nerf hammer will definately hit Naga Sea Witch, Call to Arms and Dark Pact (maybe?). Those are my types at least. Maybe Paladins upgraded Hero Power will also change. We can say bye bye to those cards

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watcher83
watcher83


Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
posted May 09, 2018 07:59 AM

the nerfs I hope to see: dark pact 3 mana; call to arms 6 mana; barnes 6 mana; naga sea witch reverted to her former self.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 09, 2018 11:04 AM
Edited by blob2 at 11:06, 09 May 2018.

Is Barnes still an issue? I mean Resurrect Priest and occasional Y'Shaarj plays are still irritating in Wild, but the card is not played that much...

I think your other nerf ideas are fair. There's another idea for Dark Pact nerf -> make it so it only sacrifices Demons. That would disable the most oppressive plays with Lackey and Cube.

That said I hope they won't "kill" some of these cards, but that will probably be the case. Caverns Below is an interesting case as it seems it's initial nerf is not enough currently. I agree this card is really oppressive in Rouge and they should really think about re-imagining it...

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watcher83
watcher83


Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
posted May 09, 2018 04:15 PM
Edited by watcher83 at 16:18, 09 May 2018.

The problem with The caverns below quest is that the reward is insanely powerful when compared to all other quests.
They already nerfed the quest by making the condition harder to meet, and it just came back swinging. Making the condition even harder to meet seems like a bad direction. Also nerfing the cards that help the deck is a bad idea because sonya,glacial shard, stonetusk boar and vicious scalehide are not problem cards. Especially sonya is a really cool card in a value deck like jade or rattle rogue, and by no means overpowered, there it acts like another shadowcaster.
So... after presenting all the possible nerf solutions, and seeing that they are all lacking, I think they should just change the quest completely, like have a different condition and a different reward; because otherwise it will either be broken or just pure trash like warsong commander after nerf.
This is also the first card that might require a second nerf in the history of the game.

In regards to Barnes there is simply no card I despise more than it in the history of the game, the only card I disenchanted out of pure spite, and the only card that completely ruins my gaming session ( other cards bug me a bit but nowhere near that).
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 09, 2018 04:36 PM

Problem with Barnes is not the card itself, but the same one as with Possessed Lackey: the cards that abuse the mechanic. Only after Obsidian Statue (and more "Resurrect" cards) and Y'Shaarj were introduced this card went bonkers. Don't wanna say there weren't cards that overused it already, but putting Barnes in a Resurrect deck didn't make it automatically that much better...

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watcher83
watcher83


Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
posted May 09, 2018 07:32 PM
Edited by watcher83 at 19:35, 09 May 2018.

All mana cheating or mana cheating enablers are problem cards - Barnes + BiG Stuff, Naga Sea Witch + Giants, Lackey+Dark Pact+ Voidlords, Call to Arms costing 4 when it gives 6+ value etc , the problem isn't the high costed cards but the ones that cheat them out, and Barnes is the pinnacle of that because u can play 28 garbage spells + Barnes and Y'shaarj and that alone will win 20% of games (example renounce darkness warlock) but when u add this combo into already decent/good deck it becomes annoying as hell ( spell hunter, big priest)
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emilsn91
emilsn91


Supreme Hero
posted May 09, 2018 11:37 PM

Just seen the list of "potentially un-fun" cards.
Sunkeeper Tarim, Call to arms, spiteful, possesed lackey, Gul'dan, dark pact, doom guard, Caverns below, kobold libarian

1. Sunkeeper Tarim is so much fun! He works both as a board clear or as an aggro tool. Often imo he is difficult to set up in order to maximize his potential. Keep him as he is.
2. Call to arms. I see why people hate it. But I feel like there is enough board clears to deal with it? Maybe nerf it a little.
3. Spiteful.. I might be playing against the wrong decks.. rarely see it.
4. Possessed. Again as Blob points out. It is the cards that make use of posseded lackey that are the worst. Not sure how one should nerf this really.
5. Gul'dan is Nzoth.. for Warlock.. Nzoth was counterable. But it is because of that damn 3/9 taunt this is a crappy card..
6. Dark pact.. Why did warlock need more heal? nerf it.
7. Doomguard.. keep it. It has enough draw back (when not supported by possesed lackey and guldan)
8. caverns. Are we discussing this one again? Boy did I have a fun wild game against a rogue this week that used quest and sonya to destroy me. Really crazy.
9. Kobold.. Warlock is just in a good spot right now. It has all the good cards.. What to do?!
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 10, 2018 12:08 AM
Edited by blob2 at 00:08, 10 May 2018.

emilsn91 said:

1. Sunkeeper Tarim is so much fun! He works both as a board clear or as an aggro tool. Often imo he is difficult to set up in order to maximize his potential. Keep him as he is.


The only way I see this card "nerfed" is by raising its cost. To 7 or 8 mana. Still would be good, but less impactful. But I would also leave it as is...

emilsn91 said:
2. Call to arms. I see why people hate it. But I feel like there is enough board clears to deal with it? Maybe nerf it a little.


Raising its cost would do the trick. To 5 or 6 mana.

emilsn91 said:
3. Spiteful.. I might be playing against the wrong decks.. rarely see it.


It limits the deck building space, as it's only good with high cost spells. On the other hand in those decks it's a big tempo swing... kinda like Flamewreathed Faceless back in the day. But this types of cards are managable, see Faceless Summoner for example, was played in every Mage deck, it came and disappeared...

emilsn91 said:
5. Gul'dan is Nzoth.. for Warlock.. Nzoth was counterable. But it is because of that damn 3/9 taunt this is a crappy card...


I would only think about nerfing its Hero Power. To 2 dmg/heal.

emilsn91 said:
9. Kobold.. Warlock is just in a good spot right now. It has all the good cards.. What to do?!


The only argument here is that we see it in practically every Warlock deck. I wouldn't nerf it.

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watcher83
watcher83


Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
posted May 10, 2018 07:56 AM

In regards to how broken call to arms is let's just see:
- it draws 3 cards, nourish does that for 5 mana, but it can also ramp;
- it also puts 3 cards into play, their cost varies from 3 mana to 6 mana;
- it also thins your deck, improving your draw;

So let's say that the first effect costs 4 mana, and that the average second effect is 4 mana also, while let's give just 1 mana for the 3rd effect. Put them together and u get a 9 mana value for a 4 mana card.
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 15, 2018 10:45 PM
Edited by blob2 at 22:49, 15 May 2018.

Ok so nerfs have been revealed: https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/21758133

I think these are decent. They won't kill the cards, and most of them are what players actually suggested. We'll need to see how the game will be impacted, top tier decks might still be top tier, but maybe those will be a little more easier to handle. I think not a big shift is required, for instance the other day I played Taunt Quest Warrior just for the "play 20 Warrior cards" daily, and I ended up crushing three netdecked Even Paladins in a row

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted May 15, 2018 10:57 PM

I am sooooo glad They seriously made good nerfs? And to all the cards I wanted to.. What is this sorcecy!
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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watcher83
watcher83


Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
posted May 16, 2018 07:50 AM
Edited by watcher83 at 07:51, 16 May 2018.

The nerfs are good, my one problem is with naga sea witch, because if they just reverse the change the card would still be playable in some big decks like ramp druid, but with this nerf to its cost it just made it way harder to get giants out; instead of negating all giants interactions and just letting u play her on turn 5 ( in the case of druid more like turn 3 or 4) and if the enemy doesn't have an answer than u could just ui or ysera.
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 16, 2018 09:32 AM

I'm also afraid that Naga Sea Witch nerf might make the deck irrelevant, but at the same time I remember how it's usually strongly dependent on draw either way. But although I enjoy the deck itself from time to time, I'm aware it's toxic and should be dealt with. I can't remember if I've seen her in a different deck though...

It appears they won't nerf Cube, so maybe I'm safe to dust that 3rd copy I've been hoarding

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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted May 16, 2018 02:05 PM

Reading the nerfs, I'm pretty on board with them, Control/cube warlock is to good as it is now, call to arms has to much impact.

I'm sad that this will wipe-out even paladin completely though. There are not many odd-even decks that work except for paladin, and it made them use cards that were never seen (like amani beserker). I rather would have seen it nerfed to 6 mana instead so it would still be used by even paladin. draw and play 3 2-mana cost cards is still value (maybe even play a 1/1 recruit if the deck does not have any 2 cost cards left for that mana).

I fear taunt druid is gonna raise after these nerfs, such a value orientated deck that can gain tons of armor against most combo decks that try to surpass taunts.....I liked the deck at first, but it's really boring to just revive hadronox over and over.

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watcher83
watcher83


Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
posted May 16, 2018 02:52 PM

Overall I think cube and contrlock will still be a thing, maybe they just add more heal or defensive options for early game, spiteful druid will still be strong, mind blast priest is getting better, odd rogue and tempo rogue are good, murloc paladin will be the aggro deck of choice for paladins after the nerf but honestly I think just an aggro paladin with nothing particular will be still very strong, something along the lines of this: x2 Argent Squire; x2 Righteous Protector; x1 Blessing of Might; x2 Dire Mole; x2 Knife Juggler; x2 Dire Wolf; x2Drygulch Jailor; x2 Unidentified Maul; x2 Vicious Fledgling; x1 Divine Favor; x1 Lightfused Stegodon; x2 Truesilver Champion; x2 Blessing of Kings; x2 Spellbreaker; x2 Call to Arms; x2 Fungalmancer and Sunkeeper Tarim.
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 16, 2018 03:27 PM

Aggro Paladin won't disappear as it's simply too good of a deck. Easy to pick-up and play, cheap, and beats many other decks. What the nerfs might do is creating a "sweep effect". Suddenly, when a card is getting a nerf, "magically" it's popularity (and of decks based on it) simply disappears. It doesn't matter if it's still strong. It's "uncool", and only that matters...

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 16, 2018 11:18 PM

Nerfs seem targeted at the appropriate cards, not quite sure how effective they'll be. Hopefully they're enough to inspire some changes as far as cards/match-ups goes. That said, was Naga Sea Witch that big of an offender? I haven't seen it played that much on high ladder, let alone in tournaments.
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted May 17, 2018 03:26 PM
Edited by blob2 at 15:27, 17 May 2018.

Stevie said:
That said, was Naga Sea Witch that big of an offender? I haven't seen it played that much on high ladder, let alone in tournaments.


Well, it was the most requested nerf in Wild if anything. They needed to do it to "show" that they still care about Wild. That's probably the main reason. Personally I can agree this deck has a strong "ez win" factor cause you can drop a NSW as soon as turn 4 + coin and follow up with two Mountain Giants for 0 or even more of them. Not many decks can respond to this, unless they're Priests. While really hard to pull of it also has the potential for full board o'Giants with Glinda.

The mechanic is toxic, but on the other hand I'm also interested if the nerf is justified. Aside from Giants it's mostly comprised of removals and a few Demons (Voidcaller + Voidlord/Mal'ganis cheat) so with unlucky draw (which happens more then likely) it's tricky to play. It's power lies in the tempo swings it can suddenly generate.

I rarely ever meet this deck in Wild. I'm actually surprised with other player experiences, I don't play that much so I might get the wrong impression though.

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