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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted October 11, 2016 01:30 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 13:55, 11 Oct 2016.
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Quote:
About Sacrifice there is no bug, it is a two-part spell, level 5 is the sacrifice and level 4 is the resurrection. Therefore you can actually sacrifice Gold Dragons, but you can't resurrect them. Sacrifice does'nt work on Black Dragons in any way.
There *IS* a bug, no part of sacrifice states it magically (no pun intended) becomes "resurrection" in the second part, it's just a trick theprogrammers used - probably without even knowing of the side effects. *BOTH* parts are sacrifice ingame and a level 5 spell - Sacrifice is the spell that revives, not Resurrection which is supposed to be a different one.
The Sacrifice ingame spell test says that Sacrifice revives creatures, not the Resurrection spell.
According to the thelazy wiki, Black Dragons can be sacrificed, although this seemed odd to me too. Can't test it now.
http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Sacrifice
Also, as for balance, Black Dragons already have better stats than Gold Dragons (including +50 health) and are immune to Implosion (costing the same), so it is only balanced to give Gold Dragons something which was already intended in the original game. Plus, Sacrifice is not considered one of the better spells and Fire Magic is considered to be the weakest.
Quote:
Armageddon IS affected by sorcery and fire orb.
Tests by lizardwarrior indicate it doesn't. Of course it should but actual damage is unchanged according to his tests.
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Also, that way it feels much more natural and in its place rather than some checkboxes before generation
As of the "gameplay experience" stuff, I get your point but it's not how it usually worked not even on Heroes 3 SoD multiplayer where people informally ban spells and entire towns... And yet, a standard is reached about which towns and spells are banned, whiuch is consistent generally (Necro and Conflux, Fly and Dimension Door), but people also have the freedom to decide adjustements informally and they do (some people ban certain heroes and town portal). This doesn't make for less a multiplayer experience so... I think used-adjusted experience is not bad as the default. Of course they can be radically different with just banning one thing, that is the point, to make for variety and not the same over and over again. The game gains infinite replayability without the need of modding/mapping it yourself every time. And yet it stays consistent because (unlike WOG) the object and spell and creature base pool is always the same and internally harmonic. You are not making chaos, just rebalancing the same order. it is also why games offer different gameplay modes (king of the hill, capture the flag, teams, free for all, cooperative etc.) and modifiers for each (very common both in RTS and FPS, but it also happens in TBS and even Heroes has some of it, for example difficulty changes starting resources in Heroes III... one could ask "for which one it is balanced!? They are all like different games, different strategies, different town tactics!". But no, it is variety within the same game, which stays consistent and gives it value. Also, otherwise you force people to use incompatible mods just to change little things, undermining your own compatibility with which is essentially the same mod. Imagine having a different heroes 3 game for each difficulty setting... because someone didn't want people "changing the whole game experience just clicking on a box before generation". It would have never taken off - people like control, and they are right in wanting it. That is at least the way I see it. (as a modder myself)
And don't misunderstand it, I like the mod very much, otherwise I woudn't care for commeting and trying to improve with some imput. Thank you for your response in any case.
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Never changing = never improving
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Pollo2002
Famous Hero
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posted October 11, 2016 03:28 PM |
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Quote:
When blue meets red , simultaneous turns auto-ends, and second player (blue) has to replay the whole turn.
Sure, but we didnt end, thats how it was since turn one, we tried different games, it always happens.
The most common bug i get when trying sim turns, is that non host just cant even move.
Basically ive been lured to hota because sim turn feature but these 2 bugs made it unplayable with most people, ive only managed to finish a single game with sim turns and it was in gameranger.
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ShakeYoBody
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 11, 2016 09:59 PM |
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nik312 said:
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Irm surprised with the long list of hota changes, there were no changes to the broken heroes 3 magic system, specially all the useless high tier level spells that makes building mage guilds a waste of resources lottery, is there any plan to do something about it?
Yes, there are plans and discussions to do something about it. Which sooner or later will come to life. Same with skills.
Well, to be honest this part of HotA progress iterests me most for now. I might even have few ideas.
Lets take Orb of Diving Rain(+50% water magic dmg). This artifact is completely useless. I see two ways to make it not. First one is to make water magic more offensive. How?
Blizzard - new 4/5 lvl AoE dmg skill which also slows/freezes units.
Frost ring/Frost bolt - also slowing/freezing(its goddamn ice!!!)
Freeze(something like Blind) - Unit cannot move/counterattack/shoot
New mechanic(taken from WoW) - if u hit frozen target frostbolt(or any other water magic offensive spell) does more dmg.
On the other hand we could just make Orb of Diving Rain affecting buffing abilities like prayer. I also have an idea for a spell.
Holy shield - our unit cannot die/takes no dmg/takes no dmg+ some buff
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One of the junkiest secondary skills is Learning which can be easily changed to good mechanic minimazing randomization during hero progress. I mean instead
+x% exp/fight(which is totally uselles with theese numbers),
why not make it
When u hit lvl u can choose one from more than two secondary skills, lets say 33%/66%/100% of them.
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Theese are just a drop in the ocean
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 11, 2016 10:25 PM |
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NimoStar said:
Also, as for balance, Black Dragons already have better stats than Gold Dragons (including +50 health) and are immune to Implosion (costing the same), so it is only balanced to give Gold Dragons something which was already intended in the original game. Plus, Sacrifice is not considered one of the better spells and Fire Magic is considered to be the weakest.
They already got more SP, AT and DEF thats enough for me imho to compensate 50HP and lvl5 spells, 'coz they are a lil more offensive compared to black dragons. Also Rampart got the most HP from all towns, these 50 points aren't that much. On Mephala (lvl 10+) its quite nothing tbh, she's damn powerful and "Ranger" class works perfectly for her, also her starting attributes are awesome.
ShakeYoBody said:
Lets take Orb of Diving Rain(+50% water magic dmg). This artifact is completely useless. I see two ways to make it not. First one is to make water magic more offensive. How?
Blizzard - new 4/5 lvl AoE dmg skill which also slows/freezes units.
Frost ring/Frost bolt - also slowing/freezing(its goddamn ice!!!)
Freeze(something like Blind) - Unit cannot move/counterattack/shoot
New mechanic(taken from WoW) - if u hit frozen target frostbolt(or any other water magic offensive spell) does more dmg.
I like these suggestions... In this case a also really love the Guild Wars 1 balance especially the elements and the skilldesign for it.
€dit:
Anyway: only 77days 'til new year!  I guess we'll see Leprechauns (leftover from march) and some other stuff, some new map objects maybe.
Creaturebanks are still missing for ->
- Rampart (I would love Pegasi, Unicorns or Green Dragons here)
- Inferno (Pitlords, Demons, Efreets or Devils no clue here)
- Necropolis (Vampires, Black Knights)
- Dungeon (Red Dragons, Minotaures)
- I would also love another bank for: Cavaliers/Crusaders (Tournament Ground, Battle Camp) and all 4 elements (air, water, fire, earth) in small quantity (Conflux Nexus or something) (maybe useful since you can't resurrect elementals tho).
- I would also like creatues banks to be more native to their original terrain (Dragon Fly Hive for swamp only e.g., dependant on surrounding neutral town) I even like the randomness now, but on long term it fits better to terrain if the balance is allright at least in case of realism/optics.
As for Ressource Banks ->
- Castle lacks an own bank (maybe gold, gems, crystal and sulfur in adequat quantity for defeating Crusaders/Cavaliers in a Tournament Ground [see above])
- Conflux has no bank either (no clues here, maybe another Imp Cache)
- Cove also has no own bank (Gems, Crystal, Sulfur + Gold)
- I would make banks more exclusive on their native territory (Exception: Cyclops Stockpile and Mansion)
- As for "Spit" I would add sulfur here, works well for native swampland like Cove and Fortress (even if it's a copy to Medusa Stores)
Also nice ->
- a mapobject containing 2-3 lvl4 spells for towns that lacks Lvl4+ mageguilds (overgrown/sunken temple in swamp... destroyed mountain tower on rough)
- a bulding for 1 lvl5 spell like "Sphinx" in WoG in deserts (rare).
- new Heroes
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted October 17, 2016 11:08 PM |
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Quote:
to compensate 50HP and lvl5 spells
But the thing is "5 level spells" don't even work as intended now, that's the point with Sacrifice.
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Creaturebanks are still missing for ->
IMO it's not "balanced" for all towns to have creature maps as you think, one of the few Fortress advantages was that they could get Wyverns from creature banks on the adventure map, as Wyverns are norally the weakest LVL 6 creature by far.
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I would also love another bank for: Cavaliers/Crusaders
No way, you already get to free upgrade cavaliers at Stables, something no other faction has...
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Has the bug about Armorer actually INCREASING the damage that heroe's creatures receive from garrison shooting towers been resolved?
Armorer is not one of the best skills, easily losing to offense (not only attack is better, it also gets double the bonus), but it also has this bug weakening it. Bug has been reported in many places, including being confirmed here:
http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Did_you_know
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Never changing = never improving
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted October 18, 2016 10:46 AM |
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NimoStar said:
Has the bug about Armorer actually INCREASING the damage that heroe's creatures receive from garrison shooting towers been resolved?
Armorer is not one of the best skills, easily losing to offense (not only attack is better, it also gets double the bonus), but it also has this bug weakening it. Bug has been reported in many places, including being confirmed here:
http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Did_you_know
It's the same for the spell Air Shield too, isn't it?
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2016 07:09 PM |
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NimoStar said:
But the thing is "5 level spells" don't even work as intended now, that's the point with Sacrifice.
It's just lazy coded, thats all... they just use the common resurrect spell (lvl 4) for it in combination with another values for sacrificed health. Either that, or it's just a copy/paste of the ressurect spell (in case of restrictions) because they didn't think about gold and black dragons in the first place.
NimoStar said:
IMO it's not "balanced" for all towns to have creature maps as you think, one of the few Fortress advantages was that they could get Wyverns from creature banks on the adventure map, as Wyverns are norally the weakest LVL 6 creature by far.
So much for the balance...  HotA team already f*cked around with "Dragon Fly Hives", these were much too easy to cap and much too often anyway. Don't tell me castle needed "Griffon Conservatory" because this analogy doesn't work, castle was the most powerful faction in ERA and still got GCs on high scale with much more powerful angels copared to wyvern. Now we got "Red Tower", "Experimental Shop" and "Wolf Raider Picket" so why not?
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 18, 2016 07:43 PM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
Now we got "Red Tower", "Experimental Shop" and "Wolf Raider Picket" so why not?
...and "Pirate Cavern".
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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 19, 2016 01:10 PM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
NimoStar said:
IMO it's not "balanced" for all towns to have creature maps as you think, one of the few Fortress advantages was that they could get Wyverns from creature banks on the adventure map, as Wyverns are norally the weakest LVL 6 creature by far.
So much for the balance... HotA team already f*cked around with "Dragon Fly Hives", these were much too easy to cap and much too often anyway. Don't tell me castle needed "Griffon Conservatory" because this analogy doesn't work, castle was the most powerful faction in ERA and still got GCs on high scale with much more powerful angels copared to wyvern. Now we got "Red Tower", "Experimental Shop" and "Wolf Raider Picket" so why not?
We did not introduce Griffin Conses or DFH-s. They existed long before anyone understood how heroes III actually works. They have shaped the game already and we now work with the result. Changing anything about them is not even a viable consideration.
Wolf Raider Pickets were introduced to dilute hives on the map and wyverns in the army. And to strengthen Stronghold, whose performance on most templates was subpar. Experimental shops were introduced partly to dilute conservatories a bit but mostly to strengthen Tower as one of the weakest towns by that time. Red towers and Pirate caves were introduced before balancing became thoughtful enough and as of now are (almost) excluded from random maps. Which is unfortunate and will always remain as a mistake of the past.
As of now neither further dilution of army nor strengthening of a particular town is needed. So, new creature conservatories will most probably never appear. Which is fine - there is plenty of design space left outside of that niche.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted October 19, 2016 01:45 PM |
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ArchDruid said:
An Arch Devil compared to a Black Dragon is a no match.. Although it costs 500 more, which is nonsense.
Arch Devils should cost no more than 4000, or they should have at least 220 HP.
Forsaken palace is way too expensive for what you get from it.
It doesn't matter how much HP does Archdevil have, they are not supposed to get hit anyway. Against throng of Golems I'd choose Archdevil or even regular Devil over Black Dragon 
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 19, 2016 02:07 PM |
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One thing I noticed on random maps, the count of cyclops on G maps seems to differ from other lvl6 units (much higher quantity compared to other) Template is "Nostalgia XXL", (haven't changed anything after install and it's the only G-Template selectable)
Edit: Nope should be another "Random"-Template, so only folder selected, nothing else.
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avatar
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 19, 2016 07:08 PM |
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Here's some bigger than XL templates. I guess they work with HotA.
https://sites.google.com/site/hommfun/rmg
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 19, 2016 07:23 PM |
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lonelywolf
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 19, 2016 10:29 PM |
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Warmonger said:
ArchDruid said:
An Arch Devil compared to a Black Dragon is a no match.. Although it costs 500 more, which is nonsense.
Arch Devils should cost no more than 4000, or they should have at least 220 HP.
Forsaken palace is way too expensive for what you get from it.
It doesn't matter how much HP does Archdevil have, they are not supposed to get hit anyway. Against throng of Golems I'd choose Archdevil or even regular Devil over Black Dragon
Why would you choose archdevil over black dragon, archdevil is one of the weakest level 6 monster in the game, i would take black dragon anyday against golems atleast then i would have killed alot of them.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted October 19, 2016 10:49 PM |
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Arch devils are level 7 and they got a none enemy retaliation. And the golems being golems, you'll likely to use benefecial spells on your own creatures than on them, something you can't do on the blackies.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted October 19, 2016 11:14 PM |
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Golems also have magic damage reduction so your Chain Lighting/Meteor Shower/Armageddon/Implosion are useless against them. I also prefer ArchDevils over Dragons. Devils with Frenzy can deal much more dmg than blackies. Archdevils works graet vs neutrals,
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 20, 2016 12:22 AM |
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Bah, to fight a throng of golems I would even choose a horde of cerberi to a pack of Black Dragons.
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ArchDruid
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 20, 2016 03:48 PM |
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zmudziak22 said:
Golems also have magic damage reduction so your Chain Lighting/Meteor Shower/Armageddon/Implosion are useless against them. I also prefer ArchDevils over Dragons. Devils with Frenzy can deal much more dmg than blackies. Archdevils works graet vs neutrals,
But how came the Golems here? They'r mindless, stupid and slow. I was talking about an 1 vs 1 battle between an Archdevil and a Black Dragon. The Black Dragon humiliates the Devil, and no enemy retaliation doesn't help either. And a Devil costs 500 more than a Black dragon.
BTW casting Frenzy on Archies is a no brainer.. except in some special situation, when your enemy has no chance to retaliate or reach the Devils. I tried that once... 95 of my hell-expensive ArchDevils with 0 defense skill were eaten up by stupid cerberi afterwards.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 20, 2016 04:18 PM |
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How many games did you play online?
In how many games among those did you find yourself in a battle about one devil vs one black dragon ONLY?
ArchDruid said:
BTW casting Frenzy on Archies is a no brainer.. except in some special situation, when your enemy has no chance to retaliate or reach the Devils. I tried that once... 95 of my hell-expensive ArchDevils with 0 defense skill were eaten up by stupid cerberi afterwards.
The only no brainer is the one casting frenzy on his devils then attacking with them before all enemy slower units acted.
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Era II mods and utilities
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 20, 2016 05:34 PM |
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Not to mention lots of devil buildings in underground biome leading to +1 devil in town/week also for that building
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