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BM
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 06, 2015 12:56 PM |
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Salamandre said:
LizardWarrior said:
Is "demonology" something new in HotA? I have never saw it before. Or are you referring to pit lords' ability to raise demons?
Yes, there is a new object, pit lords form a circle around and praise the God of demons. Next day, a little demon appears. Do it again, have 7 little demons every week. Demonology.
Seriously ? I feel like a noobie now.
I had never heard about demonology before, i thought your were referring the pit lords capacity to summon demons. And i don’t really understand, could you tell me more.. How it works ? You are talking about an object, is it a random artefact we can find by exploring the map ? Is there something particular to do with pit lords to do this ? A little demon appears where, directly in your hereos army ?
I knew it’s possible for pit lords to summon demons. I had never felt it could make me win a game beacause it’s a very huge tempo invesment but i am not an expert, especially i am not an inferno expert. Like you said it also can explain why i feel this Castle is weak. Maybe someone who use to play inferno can turn it into a strong weapon. I will try again with your different advices to improve my play with this castle.
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Sav
Known Hero
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posted May 06, 2015 12:59 PM |
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Edited by Sav at 13:01, 06 May 2015.
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Quote:
Nik, I'm eager to play on Jebus vs you antyime as I don't see the Inferno weakness on Jebus.
Don't forget that HW rules and WCL rules are different. Ex., there is no restricton on upgrading angels from conservatories and wyverns from hives in HW rules. Rules for HotA are based on HW rules as there is not so much restrictions there and it is possible to eliminate almost all of them by making balancing changes (and many restrictons were already removed for HotA).
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted May 06, 2015 01:19 PM |
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Well, MB, if you take Pit Lords as troops in your army, and for example you have 50 peasants too. You must use the peasants to attack the enemy, but if they die, you can use the Pit Lords (once it is the Pit Lords' Turn) and click on the dead stack (here we are talking about the peasants), and they will be revived as demons. Only 2 demons for that quantity. Believe me I tryed.
Although, I am not sure if they remain in your army during the adventure map, because I got them killed, but during the battle they do.
____________
What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 06, 2015 01:35 PM |
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@BM Salamandre was just messin with you man, there is no such object although I guess it could be fun.  He was refering to Pit Lords ability as demonology.
@Husham demons summoned from Pit Lords are permanent (If you don't get them killed again)
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted May 06, 2015 02:37 PM |
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nik312 said:
What can I say... Welcome to heroes 3. It is exactly the way it always was here. I don't really understand where people do get the notion that demons don't stay after battle (including myself about 6 years ago). They do and always did. 200 demons is a standard stack of inferno at the end of first month. Did you just miss out the whole thing that I said about "battle stack beyond anything that any castle
I haven't played inferno that much and had a long break for some year in homm3. But I could swear, demon didn't stay after battle... If they stay, there is absolutely no problem with that mechanic, demons got lots of lifepoints to compensate the whole army.
Quote:
Somewhat poorness of lava terrain is known as a thing, but is not a huge problem for HotA's inferno. However, there is a possibility that new gold banks will be added some day to lava.
What about creature banks? Rampart, inferno, necropolis, dungeon and ?cove? lacks creature banks, or would it be too much?
gatecrasher said:
@P4R4D0X0N
In addition to what nik312 said you don't lose hitpoints by demonfarming. In case you've got enough Pit Lords the conversion is 1:1.
The thing is you gain Attack+Defence+Damage for free (in case you demonfarm weaker creatures obviously) and you can squeeze various stacks coming from different cities into one native Demon stack.
I have noticed that in battle on map vs. tons of pitlords, the rate is 1:1. But as stated before, I didn't know demon stay after battle, and if they do, there is absolutely no problem.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 06, 2015 04:12 PM |
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The rate of conversion depends on target hit points, so is rarely 1:1. So it depends on how many pits you have AND HP.
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted May 06, 2015 07:59 PM |
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Well, adding that Pit Lords' Ability was a nice one added. Because the balance of the units of different towns wasn't that nice. Still, I enjoy that ability, because it makes Inferno worth playing with it, as other towns.
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 06, 2015 08:05 PM |
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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 06, 2015 08:27 PM |
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revolut1oN said:
Nik, I'm eager to play on Jebus vs you antyime as I don't see the Inferno weakness on Jebus. I find it very suitable as you can very often find devil dwell and with super fast Demoniac Earth Magic preety much clear most of stuff with them only, while secondary heroes can swap dogs & rest for demons which is kinda easy as theres plenty of gold and lack of lava banks ain't problem anymore. Of course you won't have strong powerstack of demons before the second half of week2, but then again everything depends on desert guardian. If you get Efreet Sultans or AB's even Crag will have troubles getting out early. When you accumulate some decent ammount of demons even biggest utopias are cake with some fodder gogs and haste. Also I was thinking about Jebus XL, L may be too small as you probably will be on desert day or two later than most other castles with similiar guardians and then it can be dangerous.
Dunno about HotA though, Im totally inexperienced in its multi yet, just finished campaigns and some custom maps. How was Inferno buffed?
I may find a time to play, but as Sav mentioned, HotA rules are based on HW ones. WCL was kinda absurd on all the restrictions. I don't think that HotA rules have a translated version yet. I can google translate it and post here as a temporary solution
However, the main thing is that you must break the MG (main guard ) on Jeb before 124 or the center zone will be probably empty by the time you come there. Inferno is a tough castle to do this.
Jebus is always played on XL-U on HW.
The main strength of HotA's inferno is magogs and Calh. However, it doesn't allow taking early hives and pickets. Maybe some early conses and experimental shops, but you'll need to devise special tactics for that (I still haven't).
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted May 06, 2015 11:05 PM |
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Well with "1:1" I was referring to the total number of hitpoints, not to the number of creatures of course.
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mrkafu
Adventuring Hero
At!as1n7h3Cl0u
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posted May 06, 2015 11:16 PM |
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Hello to everyone,
I got a question for you...
I was on this map playing with Dungeon , I'm going into this fight with the AI and it had the Orb of Vulnerability .... It killed all my Black Dragons and I wasn't able to use resurrect on them although it has used spells to destroy them ....
What am I missing here ?
Thank you
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All winged horses are mammals.
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vylk
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 07, 2015 09:42 AM |
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Edited by vylk at 09:43, 07 May 2015.
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mrkafu said:
Hello to everyone,
I got a question for you...
I was on this map playing with Dungeon , I'm going into this fight with the AI and it had the Orb of Vulnerability .... It killed all my Black Dragons and I wasn't able to use resurrect on them although it has used spells to destroy them ....
What am I missing here ?
Thank you
I also had some confusion with the orb of vulnerability, but did not report it since it turns out im not entirely sure how it's supposed to work. The AI attacked me with black dragons and used lots of armagedon, so I equipped the orb of vulnerability, and while I could cast spells on the dragons, his armagedon still did not hurt them. I kinda remember the orb working for both parties when present at a battle,...but as I said, not 100% certain.
Can anyone shed some light ot that pls?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 07, 2015 09:51 AM |
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Normally the orb takes out all natural resistances of all creatures on the battlefield. Yet it does not affect the resistance skill and the artifacts boosting it so indeed a guy like Thorgrim at high level could cast Armageddon without being hurt at all.
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mrkafu
Adventuring Hero
At!as1n7h3Cl0u
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posted May 07, 2015 10:15 AM |
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I also had some confusion with the orb of vulnerability, but did not report it since it turns out im not entirely sure how it's supposed to work. The AI attacked me with black dragons and used lots of armagedon, so I equipped the orb of vulnerability, and while I could cast spells on the dragons, his armagedon still did not hurt them. I kinda remember the orb working for both parties when present at a battle,...but as I said, not 100% certain.
Can anyone shed some light ot that pls?
The AI was using the Armagedon's Blade ... In that case even if you had the orb, its units will be immune to its own Armaghedon spell even if you have the orb... This much I know... From experience
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All winged horses are mammals.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 07, 2015 10:15 AM |
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Sav
Known Hero
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posted May 07, 2015 11:23 AM |
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Orb of vulnerability works when its owner casts spell on any target and when his opponent casts on orb owner's stacks. It doesn work when one without orb casts on his stacks even if his opponent wears this orb. Most probably it is a bug of original game, maybe one day it will be fixed.
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vylk
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 07, 2015 12:13 PM |
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Edited by vylk at 12:17, 07 May 2015.
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Sav said:
Orb of vulnerability works when its owner casts spell on any target and when his opponent casts on orb owner's stacks. It doesn work when one without orb casts on his stacks even if his opponent wears this orb. Most probably it is a bug of original game, maybe one day it will be fixed.
So in theory if my opponent has an orb and I cast armagedon (without resistance or armagedon's blade) I should harm my own black dragons - but there is a bug that makes it not so?
P.S. Salamandre, I read the link, and my question to Sav is do they consider this a bug or by design:
Condition 3: You cast a spell while your opponent has the orb equipped. This is a complicating condition. Not surprisingly, you can cast any spell you want on your opponent’s black dragons. But, and this is very strange, your own black dragons are still immune to any spells that you cast. This has a positive and a negative side. The negative side is that you can’t cast beneficial spells on your own black dragons (stone skin, shield, prayer, frenzy etc.). The positive side is that your dragons are also immune to any ‘collateral’ damage from your spells (armageddon, berserk, chain lightning, meteor shower). So if you don’t have the orb, while your opponent has and you cast armageddon, then your black dragons will not take damage, while his black dragons will. And if your opponent casts armageddon, then both his and your dragons will take damage.
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mrkafu
Adventuring Hero
At!as1n7h3Cl0u
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posted May 07, 2015 12:42 PM |
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Well, I think it doesn't make much sens ...
Looks like a bug to me ... It's a bit too stretched to be by design
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All winged horses are mammals.
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted May 07, 2015 12:42 PM |
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During combat this orb negates all the magic resistance and natural magic immunities of all the creatures from the battlefield. That means that ALL the troops are vulnerable to spells. The black dragon has natural magic immunity, and if you use this artifact, it is sure that it will make it vulnerable. That's the reason.
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 07, 2015 01:28 PM |
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husham123 said:
During combat this orb negates all the magic resistance and natural magic immunities of all the creatures from the battlefield. That means that ALL the troops are vulnerable to spells. The black dragon has natural magic immunity, and if you use this artifact, it is sure that it will make it vulnerable. That's the reason.
You missed the point. The point is that if your enemy has the Orb equipped and kills your Black Dragons, you will not be able to resurrect them, even if you have the spell. That's the bug.
It seems that whenever the game resolves a spell, it checks to see if the caster player and/or the target player has the Orb equipped. If so, the resistance is reduced (hence you can Armageddon your Black Dragons if you have the Orb) but if it's not, the resistance is considered as it should (so you can't resurrect your Black Dragons if your opponent has the Orb).
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