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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted June 12, 2015 01:20 AM |
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I think Precision excels at what it was invented for: to buff your shooters. Personally I don't usually cast it, but it really doesn't need any kind of change or buff.
Never play tower, stronghold, castle or dungeon without it...
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Counterstrike is not really that useful. Maybe in some very specific maps and situations. However, this spell is good as it is now.
It is always useful, but only for certain units. Dendondroids and Vampires for example. Also if you got large stacks of tough units, Josephine with tons of golems could be a real thread with that spell. The spellpoint cost are too high for my taste (18-20 would be fine) and it's also a lvl4 spell, lvl3 would be ok imho.
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The problem with Hypnosis is it's low numbers. If it had larger numbers to begin with or at least scale better with spell power, it would be a great spell. However as I think Hypnosis should receive a buff in HotA, they would need to do it carefully - there's a change that it would get too out of hand, as it's currently only a lvl 3 spell. (IIRC something like Puppet Mastery is harder to obtain in Homm 5)
I agree on that... never used that spell, for most units it's worth using it are immune... (mechanical, elements and undead) Also these mentioned units are hard to come by with their natural mindspell immunity imo that's quite powerful. Maybe this skill could only effect mechanical units or something like this. In that case we got at least one nice counter. (Mechnical/Artificial/Undead/Mindspell Immune units are blinded/petrified and can't be used for several rounds). In that case it's a better "blind" spell, at least it brings back that spell. Maybe this suggestion also works for another skill, I peronally would like to see Hypnotize as the skill it was meant to be but on lvl4+.
to sum it up:
-Another "blind" spell (pertify?) on lvl3 also works vs. (Mechnical/Artificial/Undead) (I would spare titans 'coz they are quite hard to get and tower is also quite underpowered, at least in pvp)
-Hypnotize up on lvl4 with control for 40% of units, (additional 20% for basic(60% in total), advanced(80%), expert(100%) magic)
Inferno: we got enough damage once spells, maybe a burning effect over time could be interesting too. Deals damage when used (actual damage), also deals damage over time for power/2 rounds.
Slayer: especially dragons are quite powerful, also behemoths and hydras are easier to obtain so the triggered units are fine, but I dunno what the effect should be, maybe double damage? But that could be too powerful.
Fire Shield: is quite powerful, imo too powerful to be a mass spell imo.
Magic Mirror:
I would like "magic mirror" as possible mass spell (on expert)... also immunity vs all enemy spells+counter/backfire for dps spells. (Faerie Dragons and Enchanters hate) Duration: maybe all 10 levels of power +1 (1/10) round also spellpoints should be checked, but 25 sounds okay, maybe up to 30-35.
Also possible: "Mirror" function could be, that monster attacks could be reflected (unicorn -> blind, Medusa -> stonegaze, m.gorgon -> deathstare send back to enemy) something like backfire from their own abilities.
for "haste" and "slow":
split each into two spells/versions:
Haste: actual haste but single target only. (basic+1, advanced+2, expert+3 rounds duration additional to spellpower)
Slow: actual slow single target only. (basic+1, advanced+2, expert+3 rounds duration additional to spellpower)
Mass-Haste: Level2 Spell same as actual haste with expert mastery, more spellpoints used (basic+1, advanced+2, expert+3 rounds duration additional to spellpower 1/2 [power 2 -> +1 round, power 4 -> 2 rounds])
Mass-Slow: Level3 Spell same as actual slow with expert mastery, more spellpoints used (basic+1, advanced+2, expert+3 rounds duration additional to spellpower 1/2 [power 2 -> +1 round, power 4 -> 2 rounds])
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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 12, 2015 11:51 AM |
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fred79 said:
Storm-Giant said:
Fred is trying to insert the url of the site that hosts the pic, instead of the direct link.
This is wrong:
thanks for fixing that for me. i was trying to use the direct link because postimg wasn't giving me a proper link to use for forums. for some reason, i could see the pics just fine, using a computer that has all the add-ons turned on. my own computer, i get the same x as everybody else(i guess).
anyway, i appreciate it. sorry for not thanking you before; i was preoccupied. 
Sent you an IM
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted June 12, 2015 12:11 PM |
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i think no need to change spells. air and earth are primary, and water and fire are secondary schools.
but someone mention that titans are underpowered. that is quite true, since they can't strike melee first
they certainly look like they could, judging from the size of that sword and muscles
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted June 12, 2015 11:36 PM |
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted June 13, 2015 02:15 PM |
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water and fire are situational magic schools. it depends what town you have, what army, what spells you can get, what oponent town have etc.
air and earth are universal.
so it doesnt make any magic school better than the other. you can say that earth is useful all the time, while water sometimes.
in the end all magic schools are useless if there is orb of inhibition
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2015 05:55 PM |
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Imho this is a flaw... earth and air as "musthave" it should be much more like spoil for choice 'coz everything has it's great advantages.
As for creatures I reconsidered: undead and elementals in case of mindspell immunity are also damn strong...
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2015 06:18 PM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
-Hypnotize up on lvl4 with control for 40% of units, (additional 20% for basic(60% in total), advanced(80%), expert(100%) magic)
Wait...? I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but Hypnosis is not something like Forgetfulness, where half of the stack doesn't shoot. In case of Hypnosis, you either control a creature 100% or you don't control it at all.
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Slayer: especially dragons are quite powerful, also behemoths and hydras are easier to obtain so the triggered units are fine, but I dunno what the effect should be, maybe double damage? But that could be too powerful.
Honestly double damage is something that I would expect from a lvl 4 spell with very special conditions like slayer. One must remember that the double dmg would only be dealt on lvl 7 creatures, and Slayer is not mass effective on Expert fire magic. I don't even know if double damage is enough, as it would sometimes be same thing to cast powerful dmg spell on lvl 7 creature.
Also I don't know what I feel about Slayer's scaling: basic version deals extra dmg on hydras, behemoths, dragons, fire birds and sea serpents. Advanced adds angels and devils and expert giants. I would rather change the spell to deal dmg on all lvl 7 creatures on all level, but the dmg would increase.
Quote:
for "haste" and "slow":
Hota aims to satisfy (hardcore) mp players, and since the mass slow/haste has always been a part of the game, the change would be too radical and I'm pretty sure Hota team will not change it.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 13, 2015 06:34 PM |
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nik312 said:
Sent you an IM
read and replied.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2015 08:02 PM |
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Hourglass said:
Wait...? I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but Hypnosis is not something like Forgetfulness, where half of the stack doesn't shoot. In case of Hypnosis, you either control a creature 100% or you don't control it at all.
Sure, but it would never trigger to air-magic in that case and 3+ additinal rounds for air magic is much too long imo. Would be worth lvl5 spell or just OP. It's also just a suggestion and the %percentages are the effectivity of damage dealt by the hypnotized unit.
Quote:
Honestly double damage is something that I would expect from a lvl 4 spell with very special conditions like slayer. One must remember that the double dmg would only be dealt on lvl 7 creatures, and Slayer is not mass effective on Expert fire magic. I don't even know if double damage is enough, as it would sometimes be same thing to cast powerful dmg spell on lvl 7 creature.
Also I don't know what I feel about Slayer's scaling: basic version deals extra dmg on hydras, behemoths, dragons, fire birds and sea serpents. Advanced adds angels and devils and expert giants. I would rather change the spell to deal dmg on all lvl 7 creatures on all level, but the dmg would increase.
Sounds interesting.
Quote:
Hota aims to satisfy (hardcore) mp players, and since the mass slow/haste has always been a part of the game, the change would be too radical and I'm pretty sure Hota team will not change it.
Sure it would change a lot, but in my opinion for the better... This perma mass haste/slow for only 6 spellpoints is a bad joke in my opinion (in case of tactics and variety, sure you need air/earth on expert, and most PvP maps won't last that long). Another Problem: it makes air/earth once more super powerful, also require the same air/earth counter to dispell "slow" on your own units via "haste". It would only nerf air/earth a little since the mass version would still exist on higher levels of mageguild.
Other option: Every additional slow/haste on you/enemy troops cost additional spellpoints. So 6 spellpoints basic + 2 per unit (7x2+6=20 spellpoints for 7 affected units) This would be at least some reasonable debuff for the effect and would limit the use/spectrum for both spells a little on higher costs.
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Malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted June 13, 2015 11:55 PM |
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What is not reasonnable is to compare a level 1 spell who give +5 speed and a level 5 spell which isn t so much better, giving only +6 attack and defense (and mass haste effect).
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culgil
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 12:28 AM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
Imo Spells are the greatest balance issue atm.
I do not think so. I guess the biggest issue is might vs. magic imbalance. Might heroes are way better because of stronger primary skill evolution (marginal utility does not decrease for Attack and Defense), higher chances for good secondary skills and better starting skills (both primary and secondary). Also there are many artifacts which either counter magic or which offer the same functions as magically focussed secondary skills (Wizard's Well is way better than Mysticism and easy to get) while might-focussed skills have functions not replacable by artifacts (Offense, Armorer, Logistics, Tactics etc.).
Spells and spell mechanics are only one aspect of this larger problem and imbalance between fire/water magic and earth/air magic is completely negligible compared to might vs. magic imbalance.
This problem is not easy to tackle. Some aspects are simply core parts of game mechanics, e.g. damage calculation or guarantee to be offered wisdom and elemental magics from time to time. Still, there are some options. It would be great to see a decent buff of the weakest secondary skills Learning, First Aid and Eagle Eye. Of all the heroes starting with one of those skills, all but one are magic heroes. If Mysticism was buffed, this would immediately profit the weak Tower heroes, because 5 of them start with it. The Mystic Orb of Mana could at least be a minor artifact instead of a treasure artifact (but obviously that's a minor change). Also, new artifacts could deliberately be introduced to allow magic heroes to get functions of might-focussed skills and thereby turn those skills replacable as well. Last, more far reaching changes to game mechanics are at least theoretically possible, for example decreasing the frequency with which Wisdom and Elemental Magics are offered to might heroes.
PS: if you want to strengthen Fire Magic, why not turn Expert Slayer into a mass spell (and full effect against all lvl 7 already on Advanced). That could be quite nice for utopias.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 14, 2015 08:54 AM |
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culgil said:
PS: if you want to strengthen Fire Magic, why not turn Expert Slayer into a mass spell (and full effect against all lvl 7 already on Advanced). That could be quite nice for utopias.
Slayer as a mass spell at expert level sounds like a great idea. But it should affect all level 7's even at basic level and then do more damage at adv. and exp. Maybe it could also affect Fairie, Rust, Crystal and Azure Dragons?
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted June 14, 2015 11:04 AM |
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Why people are still confusing this thread with general discussion about heroes 3?
Seriously I'm getting sick of these "HotA should do this or that" posts, is plain inappropriate.
Also why can't people who want to customize everything don't use wog FFS.
____________
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 14, 2015 11:13 AM |
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Galaad said:
Why people are still confusing this thread with general discussion about heroes 3?
Seriously I'm getting sick of these "HotA should do this or that" posts, is plain inappropriate.
Also why can't people who want to customize everything don't use wog FFS.
Some people DO use that thread, but you can't avoid some discussion here, as this thread is also about HotA.
Yes people can use WoG, but what if they wan't to play HotA, can't do both FFS.
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 01:30 PM |
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magic heroes are also secondary
might AND magic
so you can basicaly say might with some magic 
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Sguazz
Known Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 04:00 PM |
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Galaad said:
Why people are still confusing this thread with general discussion about heroes 3?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 04:26 PM |
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Galaad said:
Why people are still confusing this thread with general discussion about heroes 3?
Seriously I'm getting sick of these "HotA should do this or that" posts, is plain inappropriate.
Also why can't people who want to customize everything don't use wog FFS.
x3.
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culgil
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 14, 2015 06:31 PM |
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Galaad said:
Seriously I'm getting sick of these "HotA should do this or that" posts, is plain inappropriate.
Also why can't people who want to customize everything don't use wog FFS.
You seem to mean also my post with your "HotA should do this or that" posts. So perhaps my post was not clear enough... ALL my posts do nothing else but express my highly subjective opinion (as do your posts, too). And of course I am not and never demanding anyone to do anything, especially not the HotA crew which made this great addon and shares it with us for free. Like you, Galaad, I was not happy with the discussion that was going on, so I wrote back, why - in my view - the discussion rested on wrong assumptions. So I have only expressed my thoughts publicly (without using derogative terms like FFS, btw). What's wrong with that? If the purpose of this forum is not to exchange our views, what is it then good for??
Galaad said:
Why people are still confusing this thread with general discussion about heroes 3?
Alright, we might discuss and question if this the proper place for discussions about game balance. But as the discussion was about HotA balance (and not vanilla game balance) why not discuss this here? Obviously HotA crew will ignore most of what is suggested here, which I understand completely. I do so too, because I do not share many opinions published here and many posts are redundant. But that doesn't mean that those who do not share your or my opinions do not have the right to write here.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted June 14, 2015 07:36 PM |
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Everyone wants a bit of this or of that, everyone has a different view on this or that. But all the views expressed in HotA thread have... nothing to do with hota specifically: none of you ask this hota creature to be like this, or Hota town to be like that. You all talk about Heroes III.
Therefore I understand Galaad: why you people don't take wog, learn erm then mod your ideas then provide valid support here (if you desire it so much) showing your results; if well demonstrated then Hota team could even implement them. In HoTA.
Because as it is right now, it more looks like: I woke up this morning and I pulled a new idea out of my butt. Nothing to support it except endless talk.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted June 14, 2015 08:01 PM |
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Well let's post it in the "Horn of the Abyss Proposals/Wishlists" thread then. Still I don't see what is wrong with having opinions and making suggestions. If people write ideas in a HotA thread, it is probably because they wan't them implemented in HotA and not WoG or any other mod for that matter, that really should be obvious.
We probably all understand we can't demand or expect anything, but we are still allowed to express our opinions and we can hope others support the idea so it might get implemented in HotA some day.
All we wan't is to make the game even better.
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