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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 262 pages long: 1 30 60 90 120 150 180 210 ... 212 213 214 215 216 ... 240 262 · «PREV / NEXT»
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted December 14, 2016 11:41 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:17, 14 Dec 2016.

phoenix4ever said:
You really don't think it's overpowered?
If your best efforts are insufficient to produce an army stronger then the one you can get from a fully built city, is not OP. Of course, it still raizes 30% of the defeated army as level 5 creatures allowing that hero to get significant part of his army for FREE, so it will ALWAYS be powerfull (even if it only raized 15%) cause it is strength you don't need to pay.
The power of Cloack is more related with the concentration of large neutral armies from where to raize then with the percentage you raize from each battle. If you have a ton of battles with thousands of units (for instance, thousands of gold golems guarding piles of gold as I use to put in my maps), you will get an OP army raizing 60%, 30% or even 15% but if battles are against level 7 creatures you will need to be pretty strong before you even do the first battle and what you raize won't be enouch (even if it is 100%) if each battle has a growth of 25% over the previous.

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tax_375
tax_375


Hired Hero
posted December 14, 2016 11:50 AM
Edited by tax_375 at 11:52, 14 Dec 2016.

From another perspective there have to be something in the game that is OP. Every game has this kind of things and it also make the game more interesting, exciting and fun. I would leave the Cloak as it is now.

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Serp
Serp


Known Hero
posted December 14, 2016 11:51 AM

Jayfro said:
Hi All,

I had been playing HotA flawlessly over TCP/IP with a friend until I lost my laptop and had to purchase a new laptop.  Now, whenever I try to host a game via TCP/IP, when I click host it asks me to create a "game name".  I just leave the game name as is, and click OK.  When I click OK, the game freezes.  

If my friend tries to host a game, it works just fine, but when I go to join his game it just endlessly searches and never finds the game.

We are both playing through MAC, using Hamachi, and have both disabled encryption on Hamachi.  Additionally, we have also both gone into Wine Tricks and installed the directplay dlls.

I am wondering if there is a step that I am forgetting to complete before being able to play through TCP/IP.  Looks like my Firewalls are disabled on my MAC as well.  

If you have any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it.  Thank you for your help!

Jason

for me it sounds like firewall issue.
I mean when you just click "host game" and then it freezes... this is usually the moment a firewall at windows would show a pop up "would you like to allow this?".
But I have no clue about Mac.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 14, 2016 11:54 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:57, 14 Dec 2016.

tax_375 said:
From another perspective there have to be something in the game that is OP. Every game has this kind of things and it also make the game more interesting, exciting. I would leave the Cloak as it is now.

Of course that comes from Mr. Skeleton
You might be right about a few things being OP is okay, but the problem with the Cloak is that it only benefits Necropolis and then it is still the old overpowered faction it always was.
Imagine if Fortress could farm Mighty Gorgons like that or Inferno Pit Lords...

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 14, 2016 12:24 PM

What's the problem with cloak? You don't like, disable it in editor. You get it in the game, keep components separate...

As previous poster said, it is required in SoD campaigns then in several maps -so removing will screw the game. Whats this weird habit that random guys want to fix this 15 years surviving game by asking official version/add on to be striped of core elements?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted December 14, 2016 12:39 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:51, 14 Dec 2016.

tax_375 said:
I am curious what do you think that diplomacy with a normal hero or undead with cloak is the bigger advantage?

See my previous post. If Pandora Boxes contain fights and piles of resources have guards necro beats all, if neutral armies are composed of very high level creatures and there are no tricks like the previously mentionned you will be better with Diplo (in HotA).

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 14, 2016 12:51 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:54, 14 Dec 2016.

Yes and Diplomacy is also totally fair, having 50 Black Dragons join for free, no problem at all.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted December 14, 2016 12:59 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 13:00, 14 Dec 2016.

phoenix4ever said:
Yes and Diplomacy is also totally fair, having 50 Black Dragons join, no problem at all.

I'm with Sal, desable it in editor if you don't like it. Again, there are already a ton of maps that count with it. All my (unfinnished) HotA maps make heavy use of it, then AI gets daily resource bonus and weekly increases to growth. The idea is to use human decision making intelligence against AI's given bonus.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 14, 2016 01:02 PM

Nah, I play my own map and there it is balanced, because I made 7th level creatures savage and 6th level hostile.
For all other maps though...

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted December 14, 2016 02:25 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:30, 14 Dec 2016.

phoenix4ever said:
For all other maps though...
Random maps already have ALL creatures hostile, so many templates will not give you more then a couple of stacks that MAY join you and otherwise wouldn't. I remember in Twenty-Five you could get pretty good armies of special creatures (like Enchanters or Master Genies) but level 7 creatures from banks were a best bet for main's army then those joinners. Of course, the troops of your race that joinned would enlarge main's mid-level stacks so I finnished some maps with thousands of Sea Dogs and Sourceresses even if I didn't had the time to produce half of them in town.

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hippox89
hippox89


Famous Hero
posted December 15, 2016 03:19 PM
Edited by hippox89 at 15:35, 15 Dec 2016.

The crew hasn't decided on a solution for diplomacy yet, at least officially, but there's an official HotA tournament called 'Urfin Jus and his Wooden Soldiers' where joiners of level 1-5 is allowed, though the rules on this might change further. The goal of the tournament is to observe how such changes will affect the gameplay/balance in competitive play.

With actual implementation in HotA in could be something like that 1-5 is allowed to join, but only paid and full price for half the numbers. I think I remember Sav mentioning this only as a thought, one of many other theoretical options, no doubt, on the matter.

If this was actually implemented than perhaps the Visions spell should also reveal the aggression value of monsters, because some monsters will only join if you're army is composed with 50% (or over 50%?) of the same kind of creatures as the monsters that you want to join you.

This is all in relation to random maps, of course. Not sure how this would affect scenarios if it was globally changed.

Anyhow, you might catch somebody playing in this tournament on heroes3.tv, if you're interested.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted December 16, 2016 10:18 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 00:03, 17 Dec 2016.

Phoenix4ever said:
Why would it break them?, are you saying there are maps where you are supposed to have Cloak of the Undead King?
It's still overpowered even if only half as powerful as before, especially since it's very easy to assemble.

Edit: Or maybe it could be changed from Zombies/Wraiths/Power Liches to Skeleton Warriors/Zombies/Wraiths? (The Skeleton Warriors raised with power like normal skeletons)


And who cares about it? I mean you can play with rules vs other players (not to use it) also AI didn't assemble it at all -> and if it does... finally an able AI player... As for yourself, feel free to leave it disassembled. I don't see your point... I just hasn't any relevance in singleplayer...

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 17, 2016 12:25 AM

Fine, leave it as it is then, I can easily solve the "problem" myself.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted December 17, 2016 01:07 AM

as I said... there is no problem... the only uncalculateable problem would be AI using it, thats the only thing you haven't any influence. But seriously... it doesn't really matter imho.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 17, 2016 08:31 AM

I don't suppose there's any way to make it so that creatures are slightly more likely to join if they're of the same town types as four or more of the creatures already in your army?

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nik312
nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 17, 2016 10:12 AM

MattII said:
I don't suppose there's any way to make it so that creatures are slightly more likely to join if they're of the same town types as four or more of the creatures already in your army?


The underlying formula for diplomacy will most certainly never change. The skill itself might. Hippox in his post above was correct on most of his statements. I sometimes wonder if he secretly knows the password to our inner forums

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ArchDruid
ArchDruid


Adventuring Hero
posted December 22, 2016 04:29 PM

I think the diplomacy formula, used in Heroes 2 was very good!

Basic: Squared price for quarter of creatures.
Advanced: Double price for half of the creatures.
Expert: All creatures join for their original price.

The only thing has to be eliminated, is to joining for free.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted December 22, 2016 08:51 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 00:14, 23 Dec 2016.

Would still be OP, 20%, 33%, 50% of the creature amount and 200% price, 150% price and 100% would be okay maybe...

edit: price should maybe depend on creature level. from 100% for a peasant or ther lvl1 unit up to 150% for a level 7 unit -> this would mean 7500 for an archangel/titan... thats quite something, in that case you would also have benefits for stronghold and fortress. Even better would be an algoritm to calculate the price from map values or something. Vampire Lords -> Expensive! while trash units like: Imps -> quite nothing. Benefit of Map Value calculation for creature prices on diplomcy -> a precise balance is possible in case of diplomacy and map value.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted December 25, 2016 12:48 PM

Doesn't better if we only get part of creatures join us? Like 15% of stack? Also with paying for joiners.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted December 25, 2016 03:04 PM

For me the join mechanic is broken... As long as moral penalty is that "nearly not existant" as it is at the moment.

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