Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 330 pages long: 1 40 80 120 160 200 240 280 ... 283 284 285 286 287 ... 320 330 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 20, 2018 09:34 AM

This is from a mod I made after Hota first version came out, which combined Hota objects - at that time (and didn't update as they stated they don't want they graphics used in other mods), with several quality WoG objects by Astaroth, Darkloke and others. So is usable only for WoG/Era and objects are blank, they need scripting.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 20, 2018 11:10 AM

Sal, are you planning to create some WoG/Hota hybrid mods in the future?

The thing I honestly like from WoG most are commanders and useless skills being buffed.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted February 20, 2018 01:03 PM

@ solandris: some of the images circled are already part of the hota lod. you can see them all pictured in the op of their thread, i think.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 20, 2018 03:08 PM

Doomforge said:
Sal, are you planning to create some WoG/Hota hybrid mods in the future?


Look, hota guys stated they don't want other modders use their graphics, so no. On the other side, wog allows endless customization of actions in map, battles, replace this or that, add this or that, so I don't really understand what means hota/wog hybrid. Hota is about top quality graphics and a faction matching vanilla quality. Wog is about having fun when you are bored with original mechanics, there are no boundaries (well, except adding new towns).

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Popcioslav
Popcioslav


Hired Hero
The best H4 unit
posted February 20, 2018 05:29 PM
Edited by Popcioslav at 17:33, 20 Feb 2018.

Salamandre said:
This is from a mod I made after Hota first version came out, which combined Hota objects - at that time (and didn't update as they stated they don't want they graphics used in other mods), with several quality WoG objects by Astaroth, Darkloke and others. So is usable only for WoG/Era and objects are blank, they need scripting.

That's what I thought actually and to be honest, I'm glad some of these went unused.

But at the same some of the objects do look like nice prototypes for either decorations or other objects. I'm actually sure some of them were past prototypes, like the weird building (mine? dwelling?) with yellow orbs on it looking very familiar to one of the new Seer's Huts.

And the one that takes inspiration from H2 Bone Dragon's dwelling also looks pretty great, hmm... I might actually make a post on the ideas and suggestions thread on the unused objects and try to come up with some use for them. Again, most of them do look like something from beta, but with enough polish I imagine they could be used or are already being remade.

Doomforge said:


The thing I honestly like from WoG most are commanders and useless skills being buffed.

Sounds like want Heroes 4 to me. I'm not joking by the way, if there are things I enjoy in H4 over H3 is the way skills are handled (there are SOME useless ones and some mandatory ones, but they are never dead or wasted slot tbh) and being able to develop your own hero unit.  

I'm honestly glad Commanders are the wog only thing and part of the past.

With skills the issue is quite different. I'm glad with the two skills already changed (Necromancy, Scouting and Arguably Artillery) and truth to be told, I'm glad 1.5. brought an amazing change that saved like 2 seconds of restarting the Autosave/saving before every Witch Hut - ability to decline from Witch or Scholar, however the RNG is still there for people who like it. Thing is, changing too much can be an issue for some people who play Hota because it's expanding the original H3, instead Wogifying it. The another question is, if you want to change Eagle Eye... what do you want to change into? Do you just want numbers increased? How do you want to change artifacts giving you the Eagle Eye bonus etc.? There is also the argument that we need bad skills to balance out the good ones and that it's simply too hard balance too make most skills balanced out at this point.

I look forward to changes in the future regarding skills, maybe even new ones. Skills always used to be the Achilles heel of this game, but I imagine that the Hota team can't just release a patch without the untested changes of something so massive and crucial to all H3 fans.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 20, 2018 06:01 PM

If they don't know how to/can't balance Eagle Eye/Learning, then banning Logistics and Tactics entirely would be the alternative, albeit a lame one (reducing choices a player can make). If, however, they want to buff Eagle Eye/Learning - WoG already has some solutions for those skills. Learning skill in WoG can be made totally OK with a 50% chance to get +1 stat on levelups and extra XXX experience per day.

Commanders are an interesting addition because they further reduce the wicked randomness of Homm3 due to addition of a strong, tankable melee unit that can also cast a useful spell (sometimes those spells are spot on, ie. haste for fortress commander) and have a skill that boosts a certain aspect of the faction. it's unpolished and raw, also broken a bit (especially paralysis skill with 50% chance to occur, fear and extra ballistae/first aid tents per day) but I like the idea behind it. After some polishing, it could become a golden standard.

See, in my past, I used to think randomness sucks, but HoMM6 kinda changed my mind on that. However, I still think that too much randomness hurts. A commander packed with key utility spells and being tanky isn't "too OP", but helps to even out the difference between towns in 1st/2nd week, which I find preferable to "grand elves vs. stone golems as neutrals guarding an important mine" kind of pain in the butt we have right now. A decent WoG commander can quickly reach the frontline and hold it well, making those grand elves doable for all factions early instead of promoting heavily a side which lucks out on slow, unupgraded walkers guarding important stuff.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Known Hero
posted February 20, 2018 06:07 PM

Commanders were just the WoG implementation of fighting heroes from HoMM4.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 20, 2018 06:30 PM

Well, yes and no, since they weren't really that strong individually, neither in might, nor magic.

assuming improved commanders was on:

1. Haven commander had +150% experience gain. Seems lame, but this allowed him to quickly become very tanky, allowing easy creeping. Also, this meant he could reach paralysis very early, and a +50% chance of paralysis was broken, pretty much. His spells were cure+bless. Not too bad, leaving you a free cure in case you got blinded or something (actually OP as hell ). Starting ability was infinite retaliation, making him hilarious with high speed against big, weak melee neutral stacks. Especially with paralysis, lol.

2. Ranger commander had free tents per 4 levels. This was either broken (if buffed warmachines was on) or useless (if warmachines werent buffed themselves). His spells were shield+mirth, which wasn't exactly the thing Rampart needed (not too bad tho). A special of magic mirror was lame, nobody used spells vs. commanders anyway. Overall a lame commander that could become a broken monster with any of warmachine buffs WOG offered.

3. Barb had free ballistas per 4 levels. Again, with warmachine buffs this would either be OP (not as much as tents tho) or only a minor addition to your hero's potential. His spells were stone skin+counterstrike. Yeah, counterstrike, a level 4 spell. Kinda powerful, eh? The real winner was his "30% chance to block damage" special. With some hax luck, you could make him survive anything and this would heavily discourage other players from attacking him, which would mean spamming his spells all over your units and paralyzing stuff around. Very powerful commander.

4. Fortress had +150% hero att/def for your commander. Arguably useless. He did have good spells though, the much needed haste plus free fortune. His starting ability was poison (50% chance to poison the target) - not as strong as paralysis, but pretty powerful later in the game. Average commander.

5. Necro had... well, "undead" as special ability. Lame? yep. The commander could cast animate dead, tho... making early game super easy. Too easy. In addition, the commander started with fear skill. While animate dead was useless later in the game as commander couldn't keep up with the growing total HP of your army, it's still a strong one.

6. Tower had a powerful commander. The broken mana regen special (a percentage of mana used returned to your hero each turn, LOL), spell was prayer (!) and the starting ability was "can shoot". Combined with solmyr and master gremlins this could be the only thing needed to clear most of the map, leaving your 2nd (preferably barbarian, overlord, plainswalker, etc) hero to gather an army and act as your main.

7. Dungeon... well, a weird one. 50% battle exp to gold conversion, seems neat but it's not much gold overall, pretty great on impossible tho. Depends on the map, highly. Spells were... crap, I can't recall nothing too useful IIRC. Skill was "no retaliation", which was pretty meh, as paralysis would kinda make it obsolete, and paralysis should be the 1st skill anyway. Not my favorite commander.

8. Inferno had a very powerful skill, up to 20% neutral stack instantly joining you, making it sort of a baby diplomacy skill. This could also mean food for demon rising every combat. Decent spells (Bloodlust+fireshield), useless special (can fly).

9. Conflux.. the potential -20% enemy army at the beginning of the battle was quite a dealbreaker. Broken special. His spells was summon elemental, and those elementals would steal retaliations or block shooters, again OP a bit. Starting skill was -50% target defense, quite unfitting since this guy should be casting elementals all the time. Another broken commander.


YEP, those guys were often way too powerful, but they did further improve the feeling of faction uniqueness, which I liked.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Solandris
Solandris

Tavern Dweller
posted February 21, 2018 12:34 AM

Ah, thank you for the reply, it's a shame they're WoG objects so there's no chance of seeing them in the game. But still, I'm sure there's a lot of unused Hota objects, like the Ruined Subterranean Gate for example, laying around and I wish there would be a way to get them even if just as eye-candy in the map editor.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Solandris
Solandris

Tavern Dweller
posted February 21, 2018 12:39 AM

fred79 said:
@ solandris: some of the images circled are already part of the hota lod. you can see them all pictured in the op of their thread, i think.


I know, I should probably know what .lod is by now, I've heard this term used a lot ~ but what exactly is it and how do I work with it? I know it is a kind of arhive specific to HoMM.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted February 21, 2018 02:24 PM

Solandris said:
fred79 said:
@ solandris: some of the images circled are already part of the hota lod. you can see them all pictured in the op of their thread, i think.


I know, I should probably know what .lod is by now, I've heard this term used a lot ~ but what exactly is it and how do I work with it? I know it is a kind of arhive specific to HoMM.


It's where there is the sprites and all, you can open it with wog tools. For instance you can get wog tools from Era package that you can download from Era II thread.
____________
Even Italian restaurants seemed to betray me. -Neraus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Solandris
Solandris

Tavern Dweller
posted February 21, 2018 05:04 PM

I will have to look into it more, it's way more interesting than I was expecting, and I realize how bad my previous question was, there's no way I could get an answer on such a lengthy subject in just a comment. I'd have just one more question for now tho, could I use it to edit sprites in my own Hota game?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted February 21, 2018 05:11 PM

I guess so, but Hota is not so friendly to edit, but some folks here did it, you can find appropriate threads if you look around.
____________
Even Italian restaurants seemed to betray me. -Neraus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted February 22, 2018 09:48 AM

Do you guys prefer HotA, or WoG personally? I know Sal is more of a WoG guy, and that's all I know lol

In all honesty I'd probably play HotA, because I find it easier to play a game with set rules instead of making my own (especially since some WoG options completely change the game). I also like the balance changes of HotA, they seem fine - not too brutal, just necessary stuff like Firebird growth or necromancy. However, I'm still not overly happy with useless skills like Eagle Eye and such being not fixed in HotA


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted February 22, 2018 10:26 AM

I'm a HotA player myself. I've taken a look at WoG before, but I just don't like the enormous amount of freedom it gives mapmakers, essentially turning the game into something it was never meant to be.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 22, 2018 10:36 AM

Doomforge said:
Do you guys prefer HotA, or WoG personally?


I have few h3 copies on my hd. I can't play one mod/addon too long. So I like to play one map with HotA, second map with Era, third with VCMI, Master of Puppets, Glory of War, Mythology mod and so one...All of these mods have their own advantages and keep my love to h3.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted February 22, 2018 10:53 AM
Edited by Galaad at 11:02, 22 Feb 2018.

Doomforge said:
Do you guys prefer HotA, or WoG personally?


They're both very different. Hota is more like an expansion trying not to change classical gameplay too much (even though 1.5+ leaves me skeptical) while wog breaks all limits. For a casual game with friends I favor Hota, for an epic single player adventure (and by that I don't mean random maps ) or for mapmaking I take Wog handsdown.
____________
Even Italian restaurants seemed to betray me. -Neraus

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted February 22, 2018 11:06 AM

/off-topic:

Maurice said:
I just don't like the enormous amount of freedom it gives mapmakers, essentially turning the game into something it was never meant to be.


how do you know it was never meant to be? homm2 and 3 had map editors; who's to say that, had nwc never folded(and ubisoft wouldn't have taken the series into the great toilet beyond), they WOULDN'T have given map creators more freedom? especially if they made a deal in the future with steam and it's modding community?

assuming what nwc would do, is just as bad in this community, as assuming what god would do. i'm calling SACRILEGE. *shakes finger accusingly*

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 22, 2018 11:28 AM

Imo the question is not what was not meant to be, as WoG does not change the game by itself, it only gives access to memory by using a scripted language, therefore you are able to modify parameters then share the modified game as mod files, without forcing everyone to modify their game executable, which will block further updates or mods. So WoG can as well fix bugs, then also logically expand mechanics, as giving to seer huts a more dynamic role, create additional border gates (make sense with the XXL recent maps), create more battle opportunities by having fixed armies in each slot (SoD can not do that at such extent) and so on.

It starts to get out of the classical boundaries when you, as creator, decide that. And I would say, after having an objective perspective on recent threads, that almost everyone is interested into implementing his own ideas in the game. Well, with Hota you can't, at least not without going into very tech-savvy manipulations, but then next update will break them.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted February 22, 2018 11:48 AM

fred79 said:
how do you know it was never meant to be? homm2 and 3 had map editors; who's to say that, had nwc never folded(and ubisoft wouldn't have taken the series into the great toilet beyond), they WOULDN'T have given map creators more freedom? especially if they made a deal in the future with steam and it's modding community?


I can't say either way, of course; I just know that the base game never considered creature stacks with more than 4K units or levels beyond 70-ish to be "natural". I see discussion and screenshots of WoG maps that usually break well beyond that. Breaking the limits in that way takes the game into a whole different range than what the designers released.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: Next Thread » This Popular Thread is 330 pages long: 1 40 80 120 160 200 240 280 ... 283 284 285 286 287 ... 320 330 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0947 seconds