Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 319 pages long: 1 40 80 120 160 200 240 280 ... 289 290 291 292 293 ... 319 · «PREV / NEXT»
OrrinIsTheBest
OrrinIsTheBest


Adventuring Hero
posted March 17, 2018 04:24 PM
Edited by OrrinIsTheBest at 16:45, 17 Mar 2018.

Sav said:

Dwarf resistance ability (as well as Unicorn and Crystal Dragon ones) works the same manner as before. So, 7 battle dwarves + Armageddon is still viable tactic.

Weird but nice.
p.s. Thorgrim doesn't get bonus to his resistance skill,please fix it asap.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gruk_
Gruk_


Hired Hero
posted March 17, 2018 07:13 PM

Erdamon said:
Hi guys.

Is there anyway I can enforce strong monsters on a random map ?
I'm always setting the monsters to Strong in the pre-game screen, but I usually end up with a map filled with lousy 3-4 level units, with a few strong units here and there.

Now I know it can be done because in more than one occasion I had a map filled with strong monsters, and by strong I mean level 7 and powerful neutral dragons.

What am I missing ?


Monsters are either here to guard a connection or an object (or group of objects).

For monsters that guard connections, all you have to do is increase the connection value. The higher the value, the stronger the monsters.

For monsters that guard objects, you can increase "Monsters Strength" in zone settings, but the effect will be quite limited. Another option is to put objects of higher value on your map. Objects of higher value will be guarded by stronger monsters. To generate such objects, you need to increase the treasure ranges of your zones. Of course, this will alter the kind of objects generated on your map: you will get more valuable objects.

If you want strong monsters to guard minor objects, you can customize object values. For example, if you want windmills to be guarded by very strong monsters, add a rule "Enable / Edit > Windmills" with a huge custom value (like, 50000), and then create zones with a very high treasure range that contains your custom value (like, 45000-60000).

Of course, if you start doing so, you may also want to customize many other objects, in order to make you whole set of values consistent. ... which can be tedious.


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TyrAntilles
TyrAntilles


Hired Hero
posted March 17, 2018 07:14 PM

Please keep HotA Heroes III

Right now, up to version 1.5.1, I consider HotA the best and most complete version of Heroes III. I cannot thank HotA crew enough for this wonderful game.

However. I think is so awesome precisely because I consider HotA the next big expansion of Heroes III SoD, not a custom Heroes III mod.

Please, HotA team, do not change Heroes III rules, skills, spells, from the way they were suposed to work in Heroes III Shadow of Death. If you do that, very few players will be willing to learn all the changes that will quickly start to pile up and HotA will end up as niche mod of Heroes III instead of a full fledged expansion.

I think is very nice to repair all the bugs, to add wonderful new things to expand the game, but if you change the core rules of the game I am afraid HotA will start to become less and less Heroes III.
I mean, I love HotA up to version 1.5.1 and I was able to convince my friends to play with me just because I insisted that HotA don't change the original Heroes III rules, it only repair bugs and add up awesome new artifacts, campaigns and town(s). None of the old Heroes III players want to learn the rules of a custom mod. They want to play an improved and expanded Heroes III they love.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 17, 2018 07:30 PM

Look fantastic however I have a compassionate thought for all the brave mapmakers who spent months to design then release xxl maps and now possibly find that some rules changed.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted March 17, 2018 07:33 PM

The actual changes work for me, resistance has some more use now in PvP... before it was kinda pointless anyway, I wouldn't have picked it anyway the only exception is Thorgrim. As for the old mechanic itself, I would add it to other/new artifacts (minor/major).

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Tovio
Tovio

Tavern Dweller
posted March 17, 2018 08:04 PM

TyrAntilles said:
Right now, up to version 1.5.1, I consider HotA the best and most complete version of Heroes III. I cannot thank HotA crew enough for this wonderful game.

However. I think is so awesome precisely because I consider HotA the next big expansion of Heroes III SoD, not a custom Heroes III mod.

Please, HotA team, do not change Heroes III rules, skills, spells, from the way they were suposed to work in Heroes III Shadow of Death. If you do that, very few players will be willing to learn all the changes that will quickly start to pile up and HotA will end up as niche mod of Heroes III instead of a full fledged expansion.

I think is very nice to repair all the bugs, to add wonderful new things to expand the game, but if you change the core rules of the game I am afraid HotA will start to become less and less Heroes III.
I mean, I love HotA up to version 1.5.1 and I was able to convince my friends to play with me just because I insisted that HotA don't change the original Heroes III rules, it only repair bugs and add up awesome new artifacts, campaigns and town(s). None of the old Heroes III players want to learn the rules of a custom mod. They want to play an improved and expanded Heroes III they love.

Then I have bad news for you - the HotA Crew plans to globally rework all the magic in the game to make it more balanced. Docent Picolan said this on their offcial forum - DF2.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
SuperJB
SuperJB

Tavern Dweller
posted March 17, 2018 08:51 PM

Hi !

Giant maps and Primary skills limit issue:

Giant maps open a new type of gameplay. Primary Skills should no longer be limited to 99. It's frustrating to not be able to advance your character while the game is not over.

[Small Bug]There is a bug with the spell Land mines when Power of the dragon father is in the battle. The spell can be launch but the mines dosen't explode.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Aura89
Aura89

Tavern Dweller
posted March 18, 2018 01:27 AM
Edited by Aura89 at 01:28, 18 Mar 2018.

Seems 1.5.3 have been released but can not find changelog for it, any information on that?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Docent_Picolan
Docent_Picolan


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted March 18, 2018 01:36 AM bonus applied by Maurice on 18 Mar 2018.
Edited by Docent_Picolan at 01:50, 18 Mar 2018.



1.5.3 update is live. Version 1.5.2 was found to be peppered with minor bugs, which called for a quick bugfix.

Download link:
Official version, needs original Heroes 3 Full (HD Mod recommended):
http://download.h3hota.com/HotA_setup
https://www.sendspace.com/file/24s3y6

HotA bugs
[-] Non-working Thorgrim specialty fixed

Graphics
[-] Sand Gem Pond image improved
[-] Oasis image fixed

Miscellaneous
[-] Map fixes

____

We have acknowledged numerous comments inquiring about new Resistance mechanic and the reasoning behind choosing it for our project. Here are the advantages of it over the old one we consider significant:

1. The original Resistance skill suffered of vast dispersion in terms of usefulness. Every battle featuring a hero trained in it was essentially a coin toss that could momentarily decide the outcome of a long game. The new mechanic is lacking the random factor, and its effect is permanent.
2. The original Resistance mechanic was completely negated by the Orb of Vulnerability, which rendered the skill with already limited usefulness virtually useless.
3. The new mechanic allows suppression of crucial spells like Elemental summoning and Resurrection.
4. The new Resistance mechanic finally made the skill unequivocally useful, allowing the player to select it by choice, rather than by force.

Notice that the old mechanic persists in the game as a creature ability. The gamble element cherished by many is preserved for existing tactics featuring such creatures.

In order to allow the players to compare the two mechanics and appreciate the advantages of the new one, we introduced the test version option in the HotA 1.5.3 launcher. With it enabled, the game will employ the old Resistance mechanic. This will give the players who have unfinished games started with the old skill version the option to complete their games with all the advantages of the new stable release, albeit with the old skill mechanic. The Crew, however, is not planning on reverting the change; the old mechanic will be completely abolished by the next major release.

Another important point is understanding that altered Resistance skill and rebalanced spells do not make up the entirety of our plans to rework the game's magic system. These exact changes are merely measures to accommodate banning Orb of Negation and Recanter's Cloak on all official templates. Simply speaking, these steps were made to allow for acceptable magic-based gameplay until next major releases are rolled out.

A large-scale rebalancing operation is currently being planned; it will include altering magic skills (such as Eagle Eye and Mysticism), dealing with overwhelmingly useful (for instance, Mass Slow) and miserably useless (for instance, Magic Mirror) spells, and solving the issue of poorly interbalanced magic schools. This is a complex undertaking which is of high priority for upcoming releases. It is meant to be batch delivered in one update.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted March 18, 2018 03:16 AM

very nice work, docent.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted March 18, 2018 03:53 AM

I also don't like the changes.
When I think the so asked Market of Time was rejected with the reasoning  founded on preserving the old mechanics and now the team wants to impose a new magic-system and trades a skill like Resistance for something that has nothing to do with the original, I can't see it in a positive manner.
I don't know what is intended to Mass Slow and Mass Haste but, broken as they are, they are part of the mechanics of thousands of custom battles. If they are changed, from HotA 1.5.3 on there will be two forms of playing and most maps made previously to the changes will no longer be playable within the mod.
Sincerely, at this moment WoG seams more trustable to me then HotA. In WoG I have the power to decide if some change stays or not. Designing maps for HotA feels like I'm working in some kind of dictatorship, where rules can change for any non-sense, despise of what we have been working for.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
AncientDruids
AncientDruids


Known Hero
BEware THe DRuids
posted March 18, 2018 04:29 AM
Edited by AncientDruids at 05:10, 18 Mar 2018.

"forge hath no fury like a Heroes' fan scorned"
- a well-known adage

With growing restlessness, I wonder how history will play out this time.

Personally, what bugs me the most about the recent update, is that how it seems to say: "IT'S STILL RESISTANCE, BUT IT'S NOT RANDOM NOW, SO IT'S BETTER!", despite HOTA's seeming aspiration to stay true to the spirit of the original game.

The option to choose new balance settings would be optimal, but if that's impossible, my suggestion would be to start renaming new abilities and choices. I.e. "this is no longer RESISTANCE, this is now ENEMY POWER MITIGATION", or "this is no longer NECROMANCY, this is now LESSER NECROMANCY".

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Alyx182008
Alyx182008


Hired Hero
posted March 18, 2018 07:54 AM

I've seen the following sentiment in another thread before, in a conversation regarding balance, but I think it should be restated here too.
What makes a game like Heroes 3 fun IS the random element in it. I understand that the vanilla game suffers from some severe imbalances, but completely destroying any randomness in the pursuit of perfect balance might leave a husk of a game that is no longer fun, and can no longer be called Heroes of Might and Magic 3.
I'm sure these changes, and future ones, will make HoTA the perfect and the preferred choice for tournaments, but not everybody wants to play in tournaments all the time. I think people should keep that in mind.

As for the current situation with the Resistance skill, I'll say this: for me it doesn't really make sense.
As I understood the classic Resistance skill, the hero would train as to be able to place a kind of ward on his own troops before battle, that would protect them from spells with a negative effect. Think of how in the Might and Magic games you could cast spells on yourself before starting a battle. So Resistance would work against direct damage spells, but also against things like Slow, Curse etc., but it would have no effect on the opponent casting Resurrect, or Haste on his own troops, as your hero wouldn't have the time needed to perform any kind of ward on all enemy troops.

In the new HoTA version of Resistance, now the hero somehow affects the opponent's spell power from across the battlefield? The idea that in a massive battle, with hundreds or thousands of  troops, your hero would be able to quickly spot the enemy hero among his army, and cast such a powerful effect on him, accurately, before battle, each and every time, seems unrealistic.
Or maybe instead, the HoTA Resistance is supposed to suppress magic in general on the entire battlefield? But again, the hero would have to be very powerful to be able to have such an effect on a large expanse of land, and consistently during battle. And then there's a second problem, that this would presumably also suppress your own magic capabilities, or at the very least, your troops' spell casting. So this doesn't seem to fit well either.

TL;DR I find that the new way HoTA wants to treat the Resistance skill might affect too much the random factor, which is what makes a game like Heroes 3 fun in the first place, and for me it doesn't make sense lore-wise and it breaks immersion.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Erdamon
Erdamon


Adventuring Hero
posted March 18, 2018 08:04 AM

I agree that blocking the enemy from casting beneficial spells on his troops seems kinda dumb. I mean, take it from dictionary:

resistance: the ability not to be affected by something, especially adversely.

So what does it have to do with opponent casting spells for his own ?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
OrrinIsTheBest
OrrinIsTheBest


Adventuring Hero
posted March 18, 2018 09:11 AM

Alyx182008 said:

What makes a game like Heroes 3 fun IS the random element in it. I understand that the vanilla game suffers from some severe imbalances, but completely destroying any randomness in the pursuit of perfect balance might leave a husk of a game that is no longer fun, and can no longer be called Heroes of Might and Magic 3.


The team's goal is not to take random elements out of game and bad luck is proof for that. It was just resistance could get easily negated by black orb which made the developers go for such major changes. And tbh i find them weird and non-logical too but do you have a better idea? I believe,no.
As for the crew's new plans im really excited to see some reworked eagle eye or first aid in action,oh boi !!! Best of luck in your work and try to get the most out of community opinions.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
dr_kolossus
dr_kolossus

Tavern Dweller
posted March 18, 2018 09:13 AM
Edited by dr_kolossus at 09:14, 18 Mar 2018.

Hello Hota Team

thank you very much for your great work on this mod!

In the current version, the revised Gem Pond for the sand terrain is now a gold mine.

I think for the rpg character of the new resistance one can compare with the -% of the nix.
If you look at it this way, the Resistance Hero's troops are more resistant to magic, which means that the opponent's spell power is lower. Depending on which way you look at it ^^

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Alyx182008
Alyx182008


Hired Hero
posted March 18, 2018 09:56 AM
Edited by Alyx182008 at 10:05, 18 Mar 2018.

OrrinIsTheBest said:

The team's goal is not to take random elements out of game and bad luck is proof for that.


I don't think you can use "bad luck" as proof that HoTA members are interested in preserving the random elements. As I see it, "bad luck" was a feature that should have existed in the vanilla game. It's lack was seen as a bug, which HoTA crew fixed. From my perspective, this is nothing more than a bug fix.

As for HoTA's commitment to preserve the random factor, I'll quote Docent_Picolan when he says that "The new mechanic is lacking the random factor" is seen as an advantage. So it does seem that randomness was seen as a detriment.

As for how Resistance could be improved otherwise, I'm not an expert player, so maybe my ideas aren't the best anyway, but I wouldn't make it reduce the opponents spell power, that's for sure. Maybe make it so on top on the vanilla Resistance, it also provides a golem like resistance, so even if the skill fails to stop a spell like Implosion, it still slightly reduces the damage dealt. This way you'll still get some usefulness, even when the vanilla Resistance fails (or when someone has the black orb), you'll still have a chance to negate a detrimental spell like Slow, and you're not making the skill illogical by affecting the opponent's ability to cast beneficial spells on his troops.

Edit: As for how illogical I see the HoTA Resistance skill, imagine if Offense Skill was remade to reduce the opponent's Defense, or if Armorer were to reduce the opponent's Attack.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
kicferk
kicferk


Known Hero
posted March 18, 2018 10:40 AM

The way I see it it's not about taking randomness completely out of the game, it's about allowing players to mitigate it for a cost.

Say, new mage guild system is still random to a degree, but if you pay enough money and resources you will get the spell you wanted, as long as it's allowed in the game. IMO it's pretty good.


Personally I've never considered resistance particularly useful in multiplayer games. Black orb negating it is a very true point, and it was not a valid answer to opponent sending suicide heroes with arma or implo because of how unreliable it was. So I would end up taking skills that work reliably.

Why bother with 20% chance for each of my stacks to live if I can take tactics and kill opponent faster reliably? Why rely on resist if I can take earth magic and resurrect? Why take resist instead of offence that lets you kill opponent more reliably?

And all those skills were also useful outside of that fight, while resistance is really not. So while there might be issues with exactly how this works I think it's a step in right direction.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted March 18, 2018 10:46 AM
Edited by frostymuaddib at 11:47, 18 Mar 2018.

I respect what Hota does for the game, and I respect their reasons. But from my point of view, but new resistance is not something that fits in Heroes 3 (reminds me of some WoG options, but there it was just an option). I understand that random factor is bad for multiplayer, but, on the other hand, it is something that is welcome, imo, in single player games. And I'm sure that a lot of players are single players like me. I also wonder why Hota team changed resistance, when still there are useless skills in game.

I'm gonna stop updating my game from 1.5.1, so I can see what will happen with the game.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted March 18, 2018 11:08 AM

Despite obvious quality work, since 1.5 I feel Hota is another mod and not h3's expansion any longer. In my opinion the original classical gameplay spirit has been lost in a small competitive niche of players not wanting/liking to deal with the random element of the game.
As a result I don't want to play it anymore, and I also don't wish for new towns any longer since they redlight any kind of port to other modding platforms.
____________
He JVC taught us how to use skeletons. -Ghost

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This Popular Thread is 319 pages long: 1 40 80 120 160 200 240 280 ... 289 290 291 292 293 ... 319 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.1133 seconds