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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 319 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 60 120 180 240 300 ... 315 316 317 318 319 · «PREV / NEXT»
revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2018 11:31 AM
Edited by revolut1oN at 11:44, 21 Jul 2018.

Lth3 said:
=
Sav is just playing with you. everybody knows Tower is the 2nd strongest choice after Inferno. then comes Stronghold, Castle or smth like that. and we're not talking about Jebus - it's a poor man's template anyways


If you have any objections, just check pro gameplay - see how much can FTS, Gomungulus, Dave or Dawidu pay not to play Tower. On many templates, not only Jebus. See Diamond, Nostalgia, Firewalk etc. For example in last round of Firewalk tournament Dawidu got 7300 extra gold day 1 for starting with Tower vs Rampart. And thats just the most recent game from 2-3 days ago. I guarantee that if I start looking I won't find any competitive pro game where Tower player actually had to pay gold to play the town.

Either you are complete troll (then why would you waste time for trolling, would be better to get a life) or you're a noob, then just watch games, play and educate yourself.

Just please, stop spreading false informations. You are only confusing people who want to learn something from this thread.

Cheers.


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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted July 21, 2018 05:53 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 17:55, 21 Jul 2018.

Obviously he is trolling, no one in his right mind would chose Inferno for a PvP match. But I want to second your motion, Tower could use some tweak, even the trade from Neela's Scholar to Tactics was undone.
Maybe if Alchemists weren't burden with useless magic skills from the beginning would be a start. Also, Torosar should have Artillery as starting skill.
Personally, I would love to see Theodorus starting with Archery and having it as specialty (I would want to play it in SP) but I don't the use of this except for fun.
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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 21, 2018 08:42 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 20:49, 21 Jul 2018.

revolut1oN said:
Lth3 said:
=
Sav is just playing with you. everybody knows Tower is the 2nd strongest choice after Inferno. then comes Stronghold, Castle or smth like that. and we're not talking about Jebus - it's a poor man's template anyways


If you have any objections, just check pro gameplay - see how much can FTS, Gomungulus, Dave or Dawidu pay not to play Tower. On many templates, not only Jebus. See Diamond, Nostalgia, Firewalk etc. For example in last round of Firewalk tournament Dawidu got 7300 extra gold day 1 for starting with Tower vs Rampart. And thats just the most recent game from 2-3 days ago. I guarantee that if I start looking I won't find any competitive pro game where Tower player actually had to pay gold to play the town.

Either you are complete troll (then why would you waste time for trolling, would be better to get a life) or you're a noob, then just watch games, play and educate yourself.

Just please, stop spreading false informations. You are only confusing people who want to learn something from this thread.

Cheers.




let me educate YOU. Diamond is not a suitable template for Tower because you need a strong might hero and very fast pace, which Tower does not have - that's why they pay for Rampart. Rampart has best heroes and has an extremely fast pace

Nostalgia is very good for Tower. i bet you can't find me games on this one, unless they are SoD games. like those streamers you mention - 2 of them are SoD players, which does not apply to this discussion

next, Firewalk is some kind of polish template i am not familiar of. i assume is a hybrid of 'Puhar Cienmosci' or something, with strange terrain selection and towns. and i cannot find the template outline on google either

anyway, Tower is a decent town if you exclude hero selection. Inferno is obviously not that good on small maps, or templates with strange town selections like all neutral towns are Necro. while Tower is strong both small and big map. it is a versatile town

come to lobby some time, i will teach you a lesson


bloodsucker said:
Obviously he is trolling, no one in his right mind would chose Inferno for a PvP match. But I want to second your motion, Tower could use some tweak, even the trade from Neela's Scholar to Tactics was undone.
Maybe if Alchemists weren't burden with useless magic skills from the beginning would be a start. Also, Torosar should have Artillery as starting skill.
Personally, I would love to see Theodorus starting with Archery and having it as specialty (I would want to play it in SP) but I don't the use of this except for fun.


no trolling. well maybe a little, because obviously town selection depends on map settings. nobody would pick Inferno on an M map or something, if they are free to select another one

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted July 22, 2018 07:39 AM

Another problem with Inferno is that you need to do many easy battles yourself, cause of demon farming, while with any other town you would do them in quick-combat. Now, if you are playing with a chess-timer of ten minutes, for instance, it's quite possible you end up not being able to optimize the movement and chains because of this.

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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 22, 2018 09:20 AM

it needs some additional work, that's for sure. but as long as you have enough Lords to transform any size meat, then it becomes easy later on

also, chess time works so you get a free minute or two for each combat, so it's not a problem

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Orrinisthebest
Orrinisthebest


Adventuring Hero
posted July 22, 2018 11:26 AM

I know this was discussed recently in one of the hota threads and i really think it should change - Necromancy percentages.
Skeleton farming now is only used if the player starts as necro and it is not even bothered when you have necro specialist and necro artifacts. Maybe change % to 5/10/20 to bring back the old fun/strat to make necro GREAT again? By the way im suggesting this because i believe it was nerfed ruthlessly.

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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 22, 2018 04:52 PM

yeah there's not much to say about Necro without Thant. skeleton farming should be comparable to demon farming, but HotA only buffed Inferno and only nerfed Necro

i'd say Thant could be a decent Mysticism Specialist

but if Thant is left alone, they should atleast allow Necro to assemble their artifacts, for it to have some perspective

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted July 22, 2018 10:34 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 23:01, 22 Jul 2018.

I would instead keep the percentages of both skill and artifacts as they are but restore the values of Necromancy Amplifier and Necropolis Grail. This way Necropolis would be more viable for someone to start with but skeleton farming with others cities would still be unprofitable, something I think is the correct way to go.
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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 22, 2018 11:55 PM

bloodsucker said:
I would instead keep the percentages of both skill and artifacts as they are but restore the values of Necromancy Amplifier and Necropolis Grail. This way Necropolis would be more viable for someone to start with but skeleton farming with others cities would still be unprofitable, something I think is the correct way to go.


why do you think it should be unprofitable to skeleton farm for others, whereas demon farming is always profitable?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted July 23, 2018 03:42 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 03:48, 23 Jul 2018.

Sometimes you can get up to 15 Pit Lords from a Pandora Box but those occasions are quite rare, you may use any hero to farm but most of the times you need to develop an Inferno town to do it, while with a bit of luck you can farm skeletons from day 1 starting with any other town. For instance, you start with Stronghold and Crag or Fortress and Tazar, find a necromancer in tavern day one, after some time get another one and you have the main advantage of starting with Necropolis plus the ones from starting with that town (except for the 5% you get from the Necromancy Amplifier).
There are disadvantages from starting with Necropolis, like having poor level 2 and 3 troops and since you can't get Galthran and Necromancy specialists have that rule of development making them almost always unfit for main, IMO farming skeletons should be better when you start with the respective town then when you start with another.
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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 23, 2018 09:12 AM

you don't have a Skeleton Transformer though. makes it extremely slow with nerfed percentages

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Jluil
Jluil

Tavern Dweller
posted July 23, 2018 12:11 PM

bloodsucker said:
Obviously he is trolling, no one in his right mind would chose Inferno for a PvP match. But I want to second your motion, Tower could use some tweak, even the trade from Neela's Scholar to Tactics was undone.
Maybe if Alchemists weren't burden with useless magic skills from the beginning would be a start. Also, Torosar should have Artillery as starting skill.
Personally, I would love to see Theodorus starting with Archery and having it as specialty (I would want to play it in SP) but I don't the use of this except for fun.

It's a pity that a town with 3 shooters basically has no starting hero with archery. Alchemist must indeed be the worst hero class in the game.

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Jluil
Jluil

Tavern Dweller
posted July 23, 2018 12:16 PM

bloodsucker said:
Another problem with Inferno is that you need to do many easy battles yourself, cause of demon farming, while with any other town you would do them in quick-combat. Now, if you are playing with a chess-timer of ten minutes, for instance, it's quite possible you end up not being able to optimize the movement and chains because of this.


One way of optimizing in HotA is to use magogs with (F) to attack own stack. This way you can quickly farm demons on slower melee creeps.


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Nik312
Nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 23, 2018 04:37 PM
Edited by Nik312 at 16:46, 23 Jul 2018.

There is too much inaccurate balance statements in this thread that I've lost the spirit to fully answer it all (not anyone's fault, just my current state) , but in short: revolution is mostly right about Tower, but we'll see the state after the magic rebalance. Lth is mostly wrong about necro and I have videos from pro players amassing tons of skeletons without Thant or Galthran, but even without a ton, just using vampires you can win maps. Necro strength (not weakness) is potentially a problem, but we'll see after magic rebalance. Also, demon-farming is not always beneficial - one pays with a ton of tempo (in terms of heroes and movepoints used) and timer for those demons. Unlike skeletons.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted July 23, 2018 05:33 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 17:43, 23 Jul 2018.

Nik312 said:
Necro strength (not weakness) is potentially a problem, but we'll see after magic rebalance.

I'm not saying it's weak, I'm saying skeleton farming is already strong enough with other towns. For me it would make sense if it was way better when Necropolis is your starting town but I watched the stream you posted of Gomunguls with Thant and VLs. Yes, in the hands of a pro that is more then enough to make the town strong, not weak.
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Nik312
Nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 23, 2018 06:05 PM

bloodsucker said:
Nik312 said:
Necro strength (not weakness) is potentially a problem, but we'll see after magic rebalance.

I'm not saying it's weak, I'm saying skeleton farming is already strong enough with other towns. For me it would make sense if it was way better when Necropolis is your starting town but I watched the stream you posted of Gomunguls with Thant and VLs. Yes, in the hands of a pro that is more then enough to make the town strong, not weak.


That part was more of an answer to Lth posts)
But necro is already stronger with necropolis. Just the 5% from amplifier, the inbuilt transformer and the starting amount from 2 heroes is enough of an advantage. Farming with other towns is still possible, but would require some special conditions, like having a cloak or boots, possibly also having a necro village and an outward transformer

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Javiduc
Javiduc


Hired Hero
posted July 23, 2018 06:33 PM

Regarding simultaneous turns. Would it be posible to develop a system in template editor to create conditions to trigger simultaneous turns end? Like, when a group of monsters defending a connection between areas is attacked by a definded player or players, then the st turns ends.


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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 23, 2018 07:13 PM

Nik312 said:
There is too much inaccurate balance statements in this thread that I've lost the spirit to fully answer it all (not anyone's fault, just my current state) , but in short: revolution is mostly right about Tower, but we'll see the state after the magic rebalance.


that's cool. i'm very interested in what HotA will come up with

Nik312 said:
Lth is mostly wrong about necro and I have videos from pro players amassing tons of skeletons without Thant or Galthran, but even without a ton, just using vampires you can win maps. Necro strength (not weakness) is potentially a problem, but we'll see after magic rebalance. Also, demon-farming is not always beneficial - one pays with a ton of tempo (in terms of heroes and movepoints used) and timer for those demons. Unlike skeletons.


you can farm demons whenever you can and want actually. it's up to you to decide whether you want to use your army or transform it. whereas with skeletons time matters and every fight can be a missed opportunity. then you have to go 2 or 3 fronts, cause most likely it will not be enough if you just farm with 1 main hero (as you showed in popular player streams), and then with each hero you also need a tag-a-long hero to gather the farmed skeletons, so you don't actually end up losing more then you gain

so i guess you can not reply to this anymore. is just my observations. i trust that HotA crew knows what is best

Jluil said:
It's a pity that a town with 3 shooters basically has no starting hero with archery. Alchemist must indeed be the worst hero class in the game.


they are not necessarily shooters, but hybrids with no melee penalty

like Dungeon also has 2 hybrids, but no Archery

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Jluil
Jluil

Tavern Dweller
posted July 24, 2018 10:47 AM

Lth3 said:

Jluil said:
It's a pity that a town with 3 shooters basically has no starting hero with archery. Alchemist must indeed be the worst hero class in the game.


they are not necessarily shooters, but hybrids with no melee penalty

like Dungeon also has 2 hybrids, but no Archery



Hybrids or not, towns with crappy shooters like Fortress and Inferno have heroes with archery and Tower and Dungeon don't.
Some rework here would be nice.

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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 24, 2018 11:46 AM

Jluil said:
Lth3 said:

Jluil said:
It's a pity that a town with 3 shooters basically has no starting hero with archery. Alchemist must indeed be the worst hero class in the game.


they are not necessarily shooters, but hybrids with no melee penalty

like Dungeon also has 2 hybrids, but no Archery



Hybrids or not, towns with crappy shooters like Fortress and Inferno have heroes with archery and Tower and Dungeon don't.
Some rework here would be nice.


i will again correct you

Lizard Warrior is the strongest lvl 2 shooter, while Magog not only has excellent damage, but also an AOE attack

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