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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Super Thread is 548 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 350 420 ... 454 455 456 457 458 ... 490 548 · «PREV / NEXT»
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 09, 2020 11:26 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 23:27, 09 Nov 2020.

Well if a map lasts 4-6 months, I think there is enough time and resources to build them and they can also join you on the map.
And honestly I don't see what is so hard about building Sea Dogs, the DOWNGRADED Mage Tower costs the same.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted November 09, 2020 11:33 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 23:36, 09 Nov 2020.

Nobody gets the downgraded mage tower up until week 3 or smt.

They are still quite vulnerable anyway, and Cove doesn't have very fast creatures either. So expect them to be the first target in each battle against most level 7s or Efreet Sultans. Or the first target of spells and shooters too. And unless you have Golden Bow or Sharshooter's Chad Bow, you will probably kill less creatures  in the first turn by using the ability, possibly followed by a turn 2 where Sea Dogs are attacked. But again, it doesn't make such a difference in later months against neutral AI stacks (since they are relatively easy to take care of in most cases). Mostly just the spellcasting AI with full army would pose a threat/challenge, which could obliterate the Sea Dogs relatively easy.

Sea Dogs also are quite expensive.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
posted November 09, 2020 11:39 PM

Well, what i obeserved in many games, Shooters will be own by Dragons, no matter if it Marksmen, Grand Elves, Sharpshooters, Enchanters or Sea Dogs, unless you Have Phoenix or Angels with speed artifacts. Also Sea Dogs precise shot is either hit or miss to roll, while cows death stare will trigger always when you have more then 10 cows. Cows are easier to get then sea dogs(as resource silo is good to build in poor maps). Fortress and Stronghold are very fast to build.

If you play single player with 4-6 months game time, Gorgons and Behemoths are better Azure Dragons slayers then Sea Dogs.
____________

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 09, 2020 11:49 PM

But gorgons and behemoths can't shoot, that's the point.
Death Stare also does'nt work against all creatures.

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted November 10, 2020 12:01 AM
Edited by revolut1oN at 00:02, 10 Nov 2020.

PEASANTS ARE OP.
On my map games tend to drag until 12 month and there are 50 peasants dwellings around my castle so by the end of month 12 I have a powerstasck of peasants killing hordes of Azures with their imba pitchforks.

Nerf please

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted November 10, 2020 12:07 AM

@Phoenix4ever

Sea Dogs are the priority for AI. Mighty Gorgons and Ancient Behemoths can soak up some damage, unlike the Sea Dogs.

@revolut1oN

I fully agree with you. I one-hit killed everything, even stacks of Azures. Maybe growth should be lower, or speed. Or they should cost money.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted November 10, 2020 12:38 AM
Edited by gatecrasher at 01:03, 10 Nov 2020.

Yeah, HotA guys, how come you didn't realise OP peasants SPOIL our game? Do something about it already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boy, am I angry with you!!!!!

@phoenix For the (n+1)th time:
your experience limited to games vs rubbish AI makes you overestimate the power of shooters.

Please, for the love of god, have some PvP matches. It never has been as pleasant as today. You've got online lobby and simultaneous turns nowadays.

Please stop your wild guesses. For a valid assessment of balance you'd have to gather some good chunk of statistical data.
That won't be worth my time for sure.
If that kind of balance isn't needed anyway. I don't think "perfect" faction balance it would make the game any better.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 10, 2020 08:11 AM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 08:16, 10 Nov 2020.

gatecrasher said:

Please stop your wild guesses.

No, as I said I am talking about my experience, there are no guesses.
I was using Sea Dogs as a good example of a perhaps too powerful Cove army, there are many things that takes Cove over the top imo.
Castle is also up there, but they have always been boring and "easy-mode".

If they ever release Factory I wonder/dread what 2 level 7 units are going to be like...

I guess HotA needs their factions to be top 3...

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted November 10, 2020 11:21 AM

Then just don't play it.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 10, 2020 12:27 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:28, 10 Nov 2020.

Wow you would be a great IT Supporter.
Can't fix the computer?, well just don't use it.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted November 10, 2020 12:57 PM

"Hey mister, I can't tighten screws with your hammer! It's a snow tool!!!!!!!!!!! I want my money back!!!"

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Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted November 10, 2020 02:11 PM

Yes! Example of the Grail When all heroes haven't a tavern. You can't take a artifact like Necromancer, Death Knight, etc imbalance! We don't want legion skeletons but the Grail to win game.

noobs.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 10, 2020 02:35 PM

Phoenix4ever said:

No, as I said I am talking about my experience, there are no guesses.



What gatecrasher meant was lack of online PvP experience. Things are only as valid as human vs. human makes them be. Because the AI struggles with many things that are no problem for a human player, many strategies that work well against the A.I. will completely fail vs. humans.

Perhaps if the AI was better... but it isn't, so here we are.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours

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evildustructor
evildustructor


Known Hero
Pizza Man dominos pizza yummy
posted November 10, 2020 03:51 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Wow you would be a great IT Supporter.
Can't fix the computer?, well just don't use it.


likening the feedback thread for an expansion project is not the same as getting personal support for your own computer, stop treating it as such lol i mean feedback is most certainly welcome but this kind of feedback is without any sort of evidence they would be backed by the community

balance can't be made after one persons experience, it would destroy the project you need to take regards to what the whole pictures user experience is like etc like we all ssaid 100 times by now

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 10, 2020 04:11 PM

Doomforge said:
Because the AI struggles with many things that are no problem for a human player, many strategies that work well against the A.I. will completely fail vs. humans.

Perhaps if the AI was better... but it isn't, so here we are.

The AI has no problem shooting down my Archangels or Gold Dragons with it's sometimes huge stacks of Sea Dogs and I can do the same to it as well.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted November 10, 2020 04:16 PM

phoenix4ever said:

The AI has no problem shooting down my Archangels or Gold Dragons with it's sometimes huge stacks of Sea Dogs and I can do the same to it as well.


Wow, now that's something.

Thread should be renamed to "phoenix4ever vs HotA".

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 10, 2020 04:19 PM

Okay let's just leave it at that.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted November 11, 2020 05:55 PM

Phoenix4ever said:

I guess HotA needs their factions to be top 3...


Well, not actually.

To tell the truth, Cove is at the bottom of the tier lists in most played MP templates. For example, streamer named Alex the Magician made his own JC tier list few months ago, and he did put Cove on the second last spot, and I would say most of the MP community will agree with that (and pretty much with most of the list anyway).

While it's certainly possible to win with any town, Cove has some disadvantages compared to other towns:

- The awful terrain penalty of swamp makes some off-road objectives painful to take. You need to greatly focus your hero chains for certain areas in order to get anything done, and you're still likely doing stuff slower than the other, non-cove player.
- Cove has good units, but they don't have a clear way snowballing in the early game, in other words other towns are simply better at doing early objectives. Nymphs die easily, Pirates have few ammo, Cannon doesn't fit inside creature banks.
- The town doesn't provide any good special buildings like Mana Vortex or Magic university.
- While Cove certainly has good quality of heroes, this mostly just translates into a wider starting selection. You can only pick one hero, and the other is given you at random. Therefore, the good hero pool isn't helping Cove that much. Also, as the maps are randomly made, the Cove player cannot even strategize his picks - sometimes you pick Anabelle to find out there would be more use for Cassiopeia's Nymphs, or go with Jeremy to realize this was the map for Derek's tanky crewmates.
- While captain is fine hero class, there are other classes that are better, especially when it comes for rolling earth magic at lvl 4.
- In Jebus meta, no creature bank provides you more of your own army. (Castle has angels, Tower lamps and giants, etc)

To put it more into perspective, let's compare the other swamp town - Fortress - with Cove. Remember that Fortress is rated being only an avarage town:

- Fortress can hoard more and even upgrade the found Wyverns.
- Serpent flies are accessiable on turn one, and thus they can be given to each scout. The flies are one unit faster than Oceanids, and you're also not forced to upgrade the tier 1 dwelling on day 1.
- Beastmaster is a sick class with good chances of rolling earth magic.
- Fortress units can actually take some beating, so when it comes the time of sacrificing your troops to gain better ones, your old troops can provide you some time, and not get instantly killed like nymphs or pirates.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted November 11, 2020 06:12 PM

Oceanid rush with Cassiopeia go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!! This is the only good early rush for Cove, with nicely-though placement of units as well as 1-unit stacks. Derek could be a choice too, but he's usually disabled.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 11, 2020 06:29 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 18:31, 11 Nov 2020.

Hourglass said:

Well, not actually.

To tell the truth, Cove is at the bottom of the tier lists in most played MP templates. For example, streamer named Alex the Magician made his own JC tier list few months ago, and he did put Cove on the second last spot, and I would say most of the MP community will agree with that (and pretty much with most of the list anyway).


Second to last?!, wow I guess people are really terrible at playing Cove, maybe because they have'nt played it for 20 years like the other towns.
Let me guess, Inferno is at the bottom?

I gotta admit there are a few disadvantages about Cove, units (except Nixes) and Cove heroes feels quite fragile and Navigators sometimes have a hard time learning Earth Magic.
I suppose the terrain could be a disadvantage as well, if you start in swamp, with few roads around, but the same is true for Fortress.
In battle Cove wrecks everything, maybe tied with Castle.  

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