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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted November 11, 2020 09:45 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Second to last?!, wow I guess people are really terrible at playing Cove, maybe because they have'nt played it for 20 years like the other towns.
Let me guess, Inferno is at the bottom?
I gotta admit there are a few disadvantages about Cove, units (except Nixes) and Cove heroes feels quite fragile and Navigators sometimes have a hard time learning Earth Magic.
I suppose the terrain could be a disadvantage as well, if you start in swamp, with few roads around, but the same is true for Fortress.
In battle Cove wrecks everything, maybe tied with Castle.
Cove isn't exactly that "new" town anymore, as even the English-speaking community has been able to play it since early 2014. Therefore, it's rather hard to imagine Cove's "freshness" having a significant impact on it's performance on today's gaming.
And yeah, Inferno is rated dead last. They just don't have anything big going for them.
I agree that Cove is indeed really good and satisfying town to play if you have the time to develop it, and even looks good on paper when it comes to MP gaming. If your games usually go to 6th month, it's no surprise you highly rate Cove.
However, when you scratch the surface, you begin to notice Cove isn't exactly very good on stress tests, and multiplayer enviroment is all about speed. Generally, faster player has more control over the map, and access to more and better stuff, which ultimately leads those players winning more games. There's a big difference being able to do things this day rather than next round, and this is a major reason why Cove is rated so low.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 11, 2020 10:06 PM |
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Okay thanks for a reasonable explanation at least.
Inferno being last is another reason to improve Fire Magic.
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted November 11, 2020 10:33 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Second to last?!, wow I guess people are really terrible at playing Cove, maybe because they have'nt played it for 20 years like the other towns.
Let me guess, Inferno is at the bottom?
I gotta admit there are a few disadvantages about Cove, units (except Nixes) and Cove heroes feels quite fragile and Navigators sometimes have a hard time learning Earth Magic.
I suppose the terrain could be a disadvantage as well, if you start in swamp, with few roads around, but the same is true for Fortress.
In battle Cove wrecks everything, maybe tied with Castle.
Man, stop your nonsense. You are a big noob with 0 (ZERO) knowledge on how the actual, optimal game looks like yet you force your ridiculous baseless opinions down people's throats (in the wrong thread if I may add...) and even have the nerve to ridicule people who actually can play the game by calling them terrible... I am 100% positive that I can beat you in 10 games out of 10, you playing Cove me whatever and I am not even a great player myself. Doesn't matter if we play normal multi template or any of the original maps. You will be surprised that the game can actually end in 3 weeks time if the player actually knows what hes doing.
Cove being second to last is of course not true, but its kind of an average town in all aspects and its not stronger than the rest, neither is Castle for that matter. Even if there are some minor imbalances they are evened out by the trade aspect anyway.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted November 11, 2020 10:36 PM |
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Guess we might have a match to look forward to. Please stream it somewhere when (and if!) you're doing it, if I ain't asking for too much. And yeah, Cove is average, I agree.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 11, 2020 11:20 PM |
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I am not playing that troll in a box, just because he comes here and threatens me.
I know well enough some maps can be completed in 2 or 3 weeks and congratulations to you for that, but that is simply not possible with my map and my rules. It WILL take at least 3 1/2 to 4 months to win. I don't think I need to go into more detail than that.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted November 11, 2020 11:27 PM |
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Your map is one map among more than thousands. Complain about your map's balance of Cove in another thread made specifically for it, no offense. Everyone here discussed/discusses overall balance on most maps/templates.
Still looking forward to such a match.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted November 12, 2020 06:51 PM |
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Dude, who cares about your map. Why do you even mention it in HotA thread? Im tired of your non-stop blabbering, I'm here to see HotA-related news, not 999th of your baseless noob complaints.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 12, 2020 07:02 PM |
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Well maybe you should stop replying to my posts then, otherwise how will it ever end.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted November 12, 2020 07:32 PM |
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Don't clown, revolut1on. Ok all guys, if Cove was an illusion, and Interno can't be bottom. You still see the jungle covered, the same chess, you can't see the jungle, but experience by you start to see a new move, trap, etc Remember RoE showed Archangel vs Archdevil, maybe RoE was different, when Archdevil was 250HP, now's 200HP, and Archangel got one extra gem. Nerfed!? For me, Cove is a good.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted November 12, 2020 09:46 PM |
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revolut1oN said:
Cove being second to last is of course not true, but its kind of an average town in all aspects and its not stronger than the rest, neither is Castle for that matter. Even if there are some minor imbalances they are evened out by the trade aspect anyway.
Interresting, how would you rate the towns then? I mean for JC, just like the mentioned tier list. I would totally call Fortress avarage, as it's clearly weaker than the top contenders, and Fortress has way more advantages than Cove just like I wrote last page.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 12, 2020 10:07 PM |
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What does the full tier list look like? Is it only based on Jebus Cross?
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted November 12, 2020 10:10 PM |
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Inferno is fine town if you know how to play with it. It just lacks conservatory to make power stack like Castle, Fortress or Stronghold.
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted November 12, 2020 10:54 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
What does the full tier list look like? Is it only based on Jebus Cross?
Not only for Jebus Cross, but rather accurate to all "jebus style" (one big treasure zone in the middle connecting to each starting zone) templates, which are the most played in MP community. But definetly not accurate for all templates, that's for sure.
The video I posted last page is only around 30 minutes long, but it looks like this:
Towns are put on 6 tiers:
Tier 1: Necro
Tier 2: Conflux
Tier 3: Dungeon
Tier 4: Castle, Tower, Fortress, Rampart (in that order)
Tier 5: Stronghold
Tier 6: Cove, Inferno (in that order)
Personally, I would put Castle up a tier, but after Dungeon. Rampart's tier is IMO correct, but it should probably be before Tower and Fortress.
Some (short) reasoning:
Necro is top tier because you can still get a lot of skeletons and animate death. This means their own biome can have absoluly nothing in it, and they can still do fine with just skellies alone.
Conflux is all about Luna, and they also got the university to make sure their main hero gets earth magic, which is super important.
Dungeon is great because they got Mana Vortex, Overlord can get earth consistantly, also if they can get the dragon dwelling they can instantly summon another dragon from their Portal of summoning.
Castle is good because while Knights are unwanted heroes, Valeska is amazing starting hero, and they can also get more angels from their biome than other towns do, and even upgrade them.
I value Rampart a bit more than the tier list mainly because they got really good tier 1 and 3 troops, and even Dwarfs can be useful for tanking a lot of damage. They don't have such big high roll capabilities like Tower does with lamps and Fortress with hives, but then again, Tower and Fortress are in quite a bit in trouble if they can't find their "own" objectives, while rampart is fine without.
Tower does get the genie lamps in JC, and they can be used as a striking force if you can get bunch of them, but if not, they're still good as a simple supportive one-stacks. Can get more giants, and even upgrade them.
Fortress I pretty much have said summed up already.
Stronghold is at the bottom because they have trouble at taking early objectives, and their early build is pretty much always the same. They can get more cyclops than other towns and upgrade them, which is something.
Inferno is rated dead last, because they got not much going for them. They don't get their own troops from creature banks, overall poor hero + creature quality. Sultans are good units, and Inferno can try to cheese armageddon by using them.
zmudziak22 said:
Inferno is fine town if you know how to play with it. It just lacks conservatory to make power stack like Castle, Fortress or Stronghold.
Definetly! You can of course win with anything, and the balance isn't that terrible to be honest + there's always the trade at start.
But when creating lists like this, sadly, something is always the worst one.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 12, 2020 11:21 PM |
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Thanks again Hourglass.
That tier list could be accurate for Jebus style maps, I would'nt know since I don't play them. Still interesting to hear.
I somehow overlooked that video you linked to, think I will watch that tomorrow.
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted November 13, 2020 01:23 AM |
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Honestly, I'm shocked Cove is rated so low, to be honest. I play almost exclusively against the AI and usually only on Hard, so I'm not exactly a pro, but I would have expected the tier list to go something like this:
1 - Necro with skeleies, vamps, animate dead, easy earth magic, dread knights
2 - Conflux with sprites, storm elementals, magic university, 3 phoenixes per week
3 - Rampart with Mephala, Kyrre, elves, treasury, easy earth magic, centaurs, and unicorns.
4 - Cove with excellent starting heroes, diet sprites(heh puns), sea dogs, flying paper crusaders, sorceress spam, reverse behemoths, death worms, amazing starting heroes, cannon
5 - Castle just because their units are all extremely solid except maybe the zealots.
6 - Dungeon for the same reason although slightly less so, but with better heroes. I tend to underestimate the mana vortex.
7 - Fortress for relatively cheap buildings, early wyvern rush, dragon flies, might gorgons, and beastmasters, although only level 3 mage guild and overall below average army in terms of power. Plus only 1 shooter.
8 - Tower for mostly awful heroes, and their strong late-game troops and library are hindered by an extremely high rare resource cost and weak early-game troops.
9 - Stronghold because of level 3 mage guild, the army is made of wet paper, unique buildings are mediocre, shooters are weak, you don't get to use the cyclopes in most games etc.
10 - Inferno with their abysmal creature growth, 1 slow shooter, imps, their main power stack requires you to lose troops, expensive and situational unique building, and fire magic bonus.
Looking at all my reasonings now I realize the logic I used is a bit inconsistent and probably based just as much on my proficiency with a given faction as it is on their actual strengths and weaknesses as again, I play mostly single player.
All this reading about competitive strategies makes me really wish I played online more. I'm just really not that good at rushing, I prefer a slower-paced game where you can really max out everything. That's the main reason I play more heroes 5 than 3, 5 has a more interesting skill system and the specializations are more unique and important to playstyle.
Is there a discord server for newbies or something where I can play against other people that are new to the online scene? I don't want to waste anyone's time on a boring one-sided match.
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Syth
Hired Hero
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posted November 13, 2020 09:32 AM |
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Seems to me fixing the overreliance on earth magic and buffing some other magic schools/skills would greatly change the ranking of the castles. I mean some rankings are solely based on (which they are right about) the ability to roll earth magic.
Some intermediate skill/spell balance would have been great for the next patch. I surely would try the new castle and how it that fire dies fast when you encounter same old unfixed things. What brought me back after all those years was A)simultaneous turns B) the change done to skills estates/mysticism/slow spell et. Those were fine touches.
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seiran
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 13, 2020 11:26 AM |
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Fortress and Stronghold are tied for best town. All the others suck.
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted November 13, 2020 06:42 PM |
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excalibur
Known Hero
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posted November 14, 2020 04:28 PM |
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Guys, is there any way to disable the "Two Way Monoliths" (Portals) through the RMG Template Editor? I can't find any option and those things kinda ruin my random maps. 
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Hourglass
Famous Hero
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posted November 14, 2020 07:41 PM |
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excalibur said:
Guys, is there any way to disable the "Two Way Monoliths" (Portals) through the RMG Template Editor? I can't find any option and those things kinda ruin my random maps.
I'm not fully sure, but you could try editing each connection's placement hint by setting it as default. Also, RMG will likely have issues of not placing monoliths if there are many zones with multiple connection between them, so one way of fighting against this issue could be to play to avoid that kind of templates.
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This Super Thread is pages long: 
