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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Super Thread is 548 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 350 420 490 ... 492 493 494 495 496 ... 548 · «PREV / NEXT»
evilcherry
evilcherry


Hired Hero
posted November 28, 2021 12:40 AM

They should open a school in order to teach H3 modding to the new generations before this knowledge fades forever. ^^

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted November 28, 2021 12:57 AM

they do. it's called D2F forums.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted November 28, 2021 01:18 AM

Kipshasz said:
they do. it's called D2F forums.


Yeah, but I think what evilcherry means is an actual wiki, where one can easily find the useful information in the appropriate sections.
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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted November 28, 2021 01:25 AM

Something like this, but maybe hosted on another site:

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46202
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Opera
Opera


Adventuring Hero
posted November 28, 2021 01:41 AM

Maybe 2077 ?
jokes aside i hope it will be in 2022 not the end of 2022 really..

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted November 28, 2021 01:56 AM
Edited by FirePaladin at 02:00, 28 Nov 2021.

@evilcherry, @Kipshasz

I don't recall anyone related to HotA making 3D modeling and animation guides, nor guides for programming and reversing HoMM3, so that's generally almost 0 relevant information shared for people to mod the game. As for actually doing it, I doubt they will (that might easily generate competition after all, as long as they care about that), but who knows. And well, at that point, why not make it a modding platform instead? (alright, I know you're gonna say "b-but they won't have the time or knowledge to work on it!" but you get the overall idea of what I meant)

Sidenote: as long as you got a good eye, aren't a re**** in terms of design and ideas and know how to model and add materials properly/decently + animation, creating creatures for H3 should be pretty straightforward. Speaking from experience.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 28, 2021 02:58 AM

when i think about it, their knowledge was gained from hard work, trial and error, etc. meaning, they put in the effort to learn how to mod homm3; so if they did all that work, do you think it's fair that others just want that knowledge handed to them?

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evilcherry
evilcherry


Hired Hero
posted November 28, 2021 04:01 AM

fred79 said:
when i think about it, their knowledge was gained from hard work, trial and error, etc. meaning, they put in the effort to learn how to mod homm3; so if they did all that work, do you think it's fair that others just want that knowledge handed to them?


Seriously ??
I can't accept this type of statement.
Didn't Einstein work hard ?
Didn't the people from Tesla work hard ?
Their discoveries are free to use though, their patents are open sourced.
There are millions of other examples like these.

Does the skill of modding HoMaMIII represent more benefit potential than the thousands of patents from Tesla ?
Do you really think this modding knowledge is better buried with the modders rather than shared ?
Just weigh the pros and cons for 2 seconds please.

If you think like that then you should also take ridiculous actions like completely deleting the heroes.thelazy.net website for example. Because this website makes basic Heroes' knowledge way too easily understandable for beginner players and it is unfair in regard to the veteran players who started to play the game when this website didn't exist yet.

You should also destroy every single school in the world and replace it with "trial and error", because everything we learn in schools is inherited from the hard work of other people. We'll be back to the Stone Age very fast with your kind of reasoning.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 28, 2021 04:26 AM

Oh please. I think it has more to do with the tediousness and worthless of such task, Einstein didn't wrote a manual of basic physics to make his theories understandable, but made his research available to those already mastering physics. So its not for everyone.

And guess what, for those mastering coding, Hota is an open book, you look into executable, understand what is done then you start your own variant. If you don't get how to work with Heroes executable, then all your reasoning is futile, no manual from Hota will ever help.

From my experience around, there are two types of people. Those asking for knowledge to be handed to them - and in 100% of cases giving up sooner or later when seeing the complexity, and those acquiring it the hard and the right way.
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Era II mods and utilities

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evilcherry
evilcherry


Hired Hero
posted November 28, 2021 05:12 AM

Salamandre said:
Oh please. I think it has more to do with the tediousness and worthless of such task, Einstein didn't wrote a manual of basic physics to make his theories understandable, but made his research available to those already mastering physics. So its not for everyone.

And guess what, for those mastering coding, Hota is an open book, you look into executable, understand what is done then you start your own variant. If you don't get how to work with Heroes executable, then all your reasoning is futile, no manual from Hota will ever help.

From my experience around, there are two types of people. Those asking for knowledge to be handed to them - and in 100% of cases giving up sooner or later when seeing the complexity, and those acquiring it the hard and the right way.


You misunderstood my point.
I never asked for a manual available online for modding HotA.
I never asked them to hand knowledge blindly to anyone.
My initial joke was about actually creating a school, what i meant is that the only life goal of the students there would be to mod Heroes, like in a usual school where you learn your future job and not just read a few infos as a hobby, but again, it was just a joke.

Yes of course modders would lose time if they teach stuff to people who are not dedicated to the job. Everyone agrees on that and me too, obviously.

But that's not what fred was saying. fred was saying that this knowledge should be worshipped as private property and never shared to anyone. This is what i complained about.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 28, 2021 06:11 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 06:18, 28 Nov 2021.

Well if anything reverse-engineerting software usually goes against copyright/ToS so if we believe in intellectual property, modders should be in jail for violating both legalty and terms of use...
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Never changing = never improving

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 28, 2021 06:11 AM

From a realistic point, fred is right: knowledge being worshiped as private property is the core component of marketing in our society. I don't think Hota team should be challenged on that, they created it, its their property. Even if it is not, at the moment, financially valued.

Imagine in the close future, some big company decides to create a follow to Heroes, based on the success Hota meet. And for that, starts to look for people who can handle executable the way Hota did. If Hota made their coding schema public, there would be hundreds of potential coders, instead of those who created the thing from scratch. And which should get the priority.
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Era II mods and utilities

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 28, 2021 06:18 AM

NimoStar said:
Well if anything reversze-engineerting software usually goes against copyright/ToS so if we believe in intellectual property, modders should be in jail for violating both legalty and terms of use...


They should, if they monetize their mods when using assets made by others. In my view, Hota keeping the "secret" for them selves is also a marketing attitude, in case they have a serious proposal in the future.  There may be also other personal reasons, but this one looks to me enough important to justify their stance.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 28, 2021 06:20 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 06:21, 28 Nov 2021.

I don't think anyone making something commercial in base to original H3 code is very feasible. Even when Ubisoft made Heroes 3 HD, no modders were consulted at all and only RoE code was used. Simply, companies don't care about the code of some 25 year old game.

Modern coding practices and codebases don't even follow the same schemes as back then, the development process is quite different.
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Never changing = never improving

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 28, 2021 06:22 AM

well, i've seen people undermine the release time of Factory due to the death of a man. there is no mod so important, that the death of a man comes second over gaining access to content. i mean, if we want to look at this from a moral angle, let's get that straight, at least...

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 28, 2021 06:23 AM

Maybe not in the spirit of H3 game, but just based on the common sense, aesthetic and technical skills of a team who hit the nail at a precise moment. Hota team knew what people wanted, companies are looking for such people.

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evilcherry
evilcherry


Hired Hero
posted November 28, 2021 06:53 AM

I worked in 2 startups and i can swear to all of you that humanity should stop worshipping private property.
It is truly finacially beneficial to only a few humans who almost never worked in their life at all (and thus my opinion is that they do not deserve this money), and to the pharmaceutical businesses (becasue their business is literally based on hiding the fact that they mostly sell {sugar+water} for $100 per gram).
To everyone else, it is not financially beneficial AND it strongly slows down the technological advancement of humanity.

(I know that in our case the problem of the slow release of HotA content is not related to private property. It is slow because modding Heroes does not provide any revenue and because learning the very specific code of Heroes does not help much for coding in general. Thus it is not a job nor a formation, only a hobby, and thus the team working on it is small.)

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 28, 2021 07:08 AM

Do you give your home for free? Sign me in!
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Era II mods and utilities

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted November 28, 2021 08:17 AM

If paying/donating to HotA would actually speed up development, I'm all for it.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted November 28, 2021 12:44 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 12:48, 28 Nov 2021.

@evilcherry




Also guys, remember when I predicted another mald session? I didn't think you'd rant this much just overnight, but oh well, you always surprise me in terms of how much you go in circles (generally talking, not pointing or blaming any of the regulars this time).


@Salamandre

Good point.
What's next, sharing underwear with 100 other people and living in a house that's not yours, with a PC that is rented for 7 days and a wife that's not yours?
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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