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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 10, 2014 08:30 PM |
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Edited by nik312 at 20:34, 10 Mar 2014.
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Rage08 said: I've decided to post this here, because nobody seems to be reading my thread (maybe it would do better in this section of
the forums)
The Cove team seems overpowered. I'm surprised nobody has been talking about this (perhaps they have)...
In a nutshell:
- The Haspid's revenge specialty is too powerful, often boosting their damage upwards of 60% or more against ALL enemies on the battlefield, not just the enemy that has attacked them. This is on top of the fact that they already do above average damage, have very high attack skill and Captains have high attack. Maybe this special should only work on retaliation and not continue to stack or should at least only work against enemies that have attacked them, and independantly as well (meaning revenge is calculated on a unit to unit basis depending on how many times they have attacked the Haspids)
- The Nix Warrior's ability to ignore attack skill makes them too tough, often able to last longer than many level 7 units. Perhaps ignore 60% is just scaled down to 40%. For a team that emphasizes so heavily on attack and damage output, they now suddenly get one of the best tanks in the game (and they aren't even that slow)
There's a lot more to add, but I don't want to basically make a clone of everything I've said in my other post. I've spent many hours testing this team against the other factions. I encourage you to have a look at my thread "Heroes 3 Town Rating -Cove-" in the Library of Enlightenment.
In closing, I only strive to give constructive feedback and I only want what's best for the community. We're all obviously passionate Heroes 3 players or we wouldn't be here. I know that the HotA has worked very hard for us to be able to enjoy this fantastic add-on and it must feel like a thankless job (as a nurse, I know what a thankless job can feel like). Personally, I found these imbalances very noticeable, but I would like to hear from others and hopefully the HotA crew.
Overall - we don't like looking at balance like "one monthly intrest of creatures vs another one", it's almost pointless. The idea of town's balance must form as a whole - from week one through meta game into late game and final battle with opponent. As a model we take multiplayer game on a random map, generated by most conventional templates. Non-conventional templates are imbalanced by definition, while authors of fixed maps are mostly self-responsible for their maps' balance.
Week 1 Cove is really strong against neutral guards, thx to Anabel and high amount of pirates. However, dungeon and rampart are almost as strong, while having much greater melee power and tankability, which gives them the advantage in banks with close contact (hives, conservatories, graveyards, medusa-stores). If Cove is rushing for Serpents+Castle week 1, then its army strength is even less, while having the same drawbacks.
Week 2+ (metagame) With proper previous development Cove becomes really good in most banks, and for most guards (especially if got lucky with early earth magic). The problem is however so, that for most tough battles you'll need most of your upgrades and building these could mean terrible losses for your tempo. Another major problem for Cove here are dragonfly hives. The town just has no good melee units and no good tanks for taking those. Surely, small hives can be taken by 6 nixes, but higher ones could really become a pain in the... a big problem.
After few Utopias and with lots of relics. Final battle. Cove has no special late-game power, like necromancers or demoniacs do, so no extra advantage here (Though grotto can be considered such...). However, most of Cove's features truly shine in final battle. Sorceresses, Nixes, Haspids suddenly find their abilities useful. So, here is the place, where Cove can have a big advantage, but it is not obvious if its features are more OP, than magic immunity of elemtentals, double damage of black knights, AoE attacks of liches, massive amounts of archangels and wywern-monarchs, e.t.c.
I'm almost sure that you've tested the situation as monthly amount vs monthly amount, but it is never like this. Monthly growth of native creatures cannot give a sufficient striking power in lategame, the power comes from wywerns, angels, firebirds, demons plus all native units, that you've had outer dwells for. Even if to assume, that both players had comparable numbers of hives/conses/red towers, you cannot assume, that native army can deal some sufficient damage without dwells. And you can't have dwells for everyone. So, if to try and to test it properly you'd have to test something like "monthly growth + 1/2/3 dwells of level 6/7 + 0/20/40/80 wywerns/wywern monarchs + 0/2/4/8/16 angels/archangels + some amounts of firebirds/phoenixes" vs ---||---. And by these slashes I mean that you really have to test all combinations as they are different.
So, we don't really want to put it to such theoretical test. We will just release 1.3.3, come to every multiplayer comminity that is still alive, give them the game, and then we will track the statistics of win-losses and listen to complaints. After that - balance adjustments will be made. As for now - by few test games that we (including multiplayer testers) had, nothing got too exceptional about Cove. A strong town, but does not seem imbalanced
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Jayfro
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 12, 2014 04:06 AM |
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HD Mod with HotA 1.3.2
Has anybody had success running HotA 1.3.2 with the HD Mod? I have not had success with this yet, and would really like to know how to get it working. I am using Wineskin to port the game on my MacBook Air.
I saw the comment about using virtual desktop Windows but I cannot do that. I am not planning on using gameranger. Can somebody please help me figure out how to get this to work on Wineskin. It worked fine with 1.3.0 (russian). Not working with 1.3.2 English.
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Chagoux
Hired Hero
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posted March 12, 2014 12:47 PM |
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Jayfro said: Has anybody had success running HotA 1.3.2 with the HD Mod? I have not had success with this yet, and would really like to know how to get it working. I am using Wineskin to port the game on my MacBook Air.
I saw the comment about using virtual desktop Windows but I cannot do that. I am not planning on using gameranger. Can somebody please help me figure out how to get this to work on Wineskin. It worked fine with 1.3.0 (russian). Not working with 1.3.2 English.
[url=http://wineskin.urgesoftware.com/tiki-view_forum.php?forumId=1]wineskin support forum[/url]
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Cal
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 21, 2014 01:12 AM |
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Edited by Cal at 01:13, 21 Mar 2014.
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Hi there,
I've been an avid H3 player since well, its release-whereabouts. I've played the vanilla version, played WoG (and loved it) and then, a few days ago, after a long HoMM break, I've found the HotA project. Obviously it was an instant-install.
I came here to share my impressions (good and bad), since I, alas, cannot speak Russian ;<
First of all, I want to say - tons of respect towards everyone involved. I've heard you were looking to create something that's feels like an expansion, not a fan-made addon, and honestly, you've done just that. The town, gameplay, all of it, they fit flawlessly into the game and feel like a part of the original game Great job.
I am not one of those guys who can discuss balance and judge it in comparison to other towns etc so I won't go into that It didn't strike me as oddly OP or UP or anything, but what do I know. Nothing, is what.
So the visual Town design:
I love it. I haven't had grail built, but I've seen a screenshot of it and the town looks great. Everything fits together so much better than it does in Conflux, nothing seems randomly placed, everything comes together, all I can say is here - I'm impressed.
Hero portraits:
I like a lot that they don't strike to be of different style than original H3. They are not odd ones out, they melt into the visuals, good job.
Cove creatures:
I have to say I've a little mixed feelings here. Oceanids feel kind of useless in general (too squishy with nothing much to make up for it like no counter-strike or something). Level 2 and 3 feel a bit too similar to me, but I guess it goes with the Castle-like theme. I really like the birds and the snakes, I think they go great with the theme, but Nix makes me think too much of the Stronghold, town I really dislike
All in all though, they are all well-done and it's just a matter of personal preferrence here.
Campaign:
I've played the campaign and I have generally enjoyed it very much gameplay-wise. It was challenging and fun (aside of the Nix map, which was super easy). I have a big beef with something though, that actually made me stop playing after the Nix map: the heroes.
I liked having Bidley at his low-level, I got him to have skills I liked most and I kept him as a main hero on map 3. Map 2 I suffered because of the terrible skills forced into the other 2 heros - first aid, misticysm, ballistics or whatever they had there? Awful and with difficult maps (difficult to average players like myself, I believe pros could just sniff them up ) it really bothered me. But I somehow made do.
Then I found out that Bidley is actually gone from the final scenario! My beautiful, well-trained Bidley. It broke my heart and worse of all - there was not even a way to cheat-change the other's skills in any way so I got discouraged from playing
I had a lot of fun with the maps before that and I'll surely come back to the campaigns in the future when more of them are finished, but I sincerely wish that something was done about the heroes. Letting them all start at low level or at least giving useful skills would be great
That being said - I sure hope more campaigns will be made in the future for HotA ^^
Future:
I've heard one thing that broke my tiny heart - the Cathedral town is on hiatus/scrapped entirely? D: The idea was so cool! I loved it by the description, I thought to myself "Ah, new favorite town incoming! :3" and then I heard the rumor that it's been buried ;< I send my hopes into the universe that it will come back and grace HotA with its badass presence after all.
Thanks to everyone involved with the project, you've gained one more fan ^^
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hellburn
Famous Hero
The efreet
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posted March 21, 2014 08:54 AM |
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Edited by hellburn at 08:55, 21 Mar 2014.
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nik312 said: PS Just wait about a week, MAYBE 1.3.3 will come by then.
That was in 31 January.
We waited week, we waited almost 2 months... Any updates on the matter of 1.3.3 ver?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 21, 2014 10:07 AM |
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He made an update later on:
nik312 said: As for 1.3.3 - it's coming. Though a bit slow, but... Anyway
The next big version will be we don't know when. Someday.
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CoronerZg
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 21, 2014 02:01 PM |
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Hey guys,
as other people said, first of all - respect! Great mod that really
feels like an expansion. Perfect fit, great visuals - 10/10 in my book.
I wanted to ask you about the multiplayer though. I usually play on
GameRanger and I have managed to convince GameRanger to start-up
my Heroes with Hota installed, but no connection with other players
could be made. So does version 1.3.2 even support online play?
Thanks!
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Sav
Known Hero
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posted March 21, 2014 03:07 PM |
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Edited by Sav at 15:40, 21 Mar 2014.
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Quote: Any updates on the matter of 1.3.3 ver?
I`ve done everything I wanted to do for 1.3.3 in code and even more. Some graphical things remained.
Quote: I wanted to ask you about the multiplayer though. I usually play on
GameRanger and I have managed to convince GameRanger to start-up
my Heroes with Hota installed, but no connection with other players
could be made. So does version 1.3.2 even support online play?
Yes, HotA support online, but I don`t know if it works with GameRanger. It works with Hamachi for sure.
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heroes_fanboy
Known Hero
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posted March 24, 2014 07:54 PM |
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Finally, THE OFFICIAL HOTA FACEBOOK page is up!
Let's like it good.
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My suggestions are JUST suggestions. 1) I didn't mean to make fun of anybody. 2) I can always be WRONG--if that's the case I'm sorry.
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heroes_fanboy
Known Hero
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posted March 26, 2014 10:31 PM |
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On the official Russian forums, there is a really interesting discussion going on regarding the naming of the future versions of what is now called HotA.
It seems that the HotA Crew wants to keep the name 'HotA' even when a new town will be added. They are afraid that the name's change might confuse some of the fans, and argue that 'HotA' is already like a popular brand name.
This of course makes much sense. However, I rather feel that changing names with every bigger version would make this project more like original add-ons (HoMM fans are after all, used to changing titles). Also, it would be a good opportunity to show a new title screen, icons and other graphics. Such a change can actually bring more media attention to the project. What is more, community channels and the auto-updater can make such a transition practically painless.
And what do you guys think about it?
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My suggestions are JUST suggestions. 1) I didn't mean to make fun of anybody. 2) I can always be WRONG--if that's the case I'm sorry.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 26, 2014 11:16 PM |
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That's a very interesting discussion indeed.
It's true that each new town could bring a new name for the game. Just like Armageddons Blade (Forge Conflux addition) or Shadow of Death (Conflux epic Sandro campaign + artifacts sets).
BUT there is one problem. That was nice while it was added to Heroes III. Which we perfectly knew it was developed by NWC. Whenever we saw Heroes Of Might and Magic III : XXXXX we knew it was an H3 expansion (or something related).
Now, we are talking about the next installments made by HotA team. And then only way to assure that next installments made by HotA team are recognized by the community is to keep Horn of the Abyss name. Coz otherwise, if the next installment was to be the Forge town and be called "Heroes III : Forging the Ancients", at first look people would have no reason to link it with HotA, they could easily think it's another MOD just like HotA or WoG.
So, while the idea of changing names doesn't sound bad, I think the best way to go is HotA 1.x, 2.x, 3.x...
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted March 27, 2014 07:15 AM |
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Name "Horn of The Abyss" is not directly related to Cove, so addition of Forge would not change anything.
AFAIK Horn of The Abyss was supposed to be an artifact related to storyline. Not sure why it didn't make it yet.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 27, 2014 09:46 AM |
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Isn't the second (current) campaign about finding the Horn of the Abyss? (you don't find it yet though) Last time I played them was in January, but I'd swear it was about that
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blueskirt
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 29, 2014 07:04 AM |
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I kind of understand where fans are going with this but I think the title should remains Horn Of The Abyss. That doesn't mean they cannot give names to updates they deem significant, to help advertising that "New things have been added in this update", but for the sake of brand recognition, the mod title should stay "Horn Of The Abyss", even when the mod will have moved away from the Cove and the Horn campaign, onto the next faction and campaign.
heroes_fanboy said: On the official Russian forumsHowever, I rather feel that changing names with every bigger version would make this project more like original add-ons
Except it's not like an original add-on. Old add-ons were set in stone on release, once they were out, developers worked on the next game or add-on. As long new stuff is added with every update, Horn Of The Abyss is still a work in progress.
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Mon
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 30, 2014 12:27 PM |
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Hello fellow gamers i just bought this game (on GOG.com) and i was wondering since i never played this game (or the other ones in the series) should i play it vanilla or can i install this mod on top of it?
What i'm looking for is a graphics mod and a mod that expands the base game and adds lots of replay value since i'm not interested in Online play and only in custom games and the campain itself. Can you guys perhaps point me out such a mod? Perhaps this one?
Thanks in advance!
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted March 30, 2014 12:28 PM |
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rubanani
Hired Hero
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posted March 30, 2014 03:44 PM |
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@mon:
First play a bit of your heroes complete gog.com vanilla version. Then install HoTA on top of it.
Also, install HD mod for graphical improvements and more. https://sites.google.com/site/heroes3hd/eng/download
Here are some new maps when you are getting bored. http://www.maps4heroes.com/heroes3/maps.php (choose shadow of death maps or hota maps)
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Mon
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 30, 2014 03:48 PM |
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@ Warmonger i did read the first post and after that i was skimming and reading various posts. I just wanted to ask for be sure since there are many other mods out there i want the best one suited for rookies like me that are new to the series.
@rubanani thank you! And yes i'll play a bit of vanilla first to get a taste and try out the HD mod. But i'm interested in this mod though (thanks to the stalker games i'm addicted to mods) i always want my first playthrough to be as good, fun and long lasting as possible .
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted March 30, 2014 07:02 PM |
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Quote: I just wanted to ask for be sure since there are many other mods out there i want the best one suited for rookies like me that are new to the series
HoTA is the bets you cna get. There are tons of other mods, of course, but they tend to include weird ideas or just replace content. HoTA is simple, straighforward and classic in its beauty. Also, it seems to work correctly.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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rubanani
Hired Hero
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posted March 31, 2014 08:45 PM |
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I have a question about the HoTA map editor. I noticed that some new decoration objects that are mentioned in the full log, are missing in the map editor. Is it possible to use them when making a map? And I also noticed there are even more new decoration when searching the HoTA def files.
To give an example, I like the red trees (mentioned in the log file), but I can't find them in the map editor.
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