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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Super Thread is 548 pages long: 1 70 ... 85 86 87 88 89 ... 140 210 280 350 420 490 548 · «PREV / NEXT»
ericoz
ericoz


Adventuring Hero
posted October 31, 2014 02:40 PM
Edited by ericoz at 02:15, 01 Nov 2014.

level 6000+, lol? Give it a 30% bonus at least so you don't need to exaggerate like this. Talk about situational. I think when a map get revolved into forcing you to use a bad skill it's not a challenge, just a bored mapmaker that decided to give it some use.

Defending magic mirror by saying it is good vs faerie dragons. Damn, you can't get more situational than this... A spell that might have some use on one over a hundred units... And still there are better options... At expert is 40% in just one unit. Just blind it or teleport/haste a blocker into meele and it's over.

Slayer at expert gives +8 atk bonus on a single unit... while bloodust gives +6 to all units vs all units. The first is a level 4 and the second is level 1... I'm not telling it's useless, just bad. I would laugh if a player vs player ever tried to use it.

Every time "Oh but when you're facing legion/zounds..." I just think how often is that. If vs AI you'll just exploit it. And unless the mapmaker banned other spells like blind/berserker/Force Field you will never, never ever use those other spells.

All examples being given are on challeging/situational maps. I'm talking about regular maps, random generated maps, multiplayer maps.

And yes, I remember getting stuck with DD because no mana left, but only when I had no expert Air on random maps. Magic wells and resting in towns or just having a large mana pool with expert intelligence (an example of an useful SS) make it up for it. Recovering miserable 4 points a day... It's a waste of a skill slot. It would take literally almost a week to use one more DD with expert mysticism.

Diplomacy is broken, but the artifacts are in the wrong class. Finding a +5/6 stat or any other good artifact instead is always better.

The fact that you need such ludicrous, extreme exceptions to finally use it just proves my point. They need to be reworked.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 31, 2014 02:58 PM

ericoz said:
I'm talking about regular maps, random generated maps, multiplayer maps.


And I was clearly talking about single player scenarios when you called me drunk. So what we do now, compare apples with bananas and play deaf?

What you say is: hey, we use mostly 100 english words in a forum, so this means all the other words are useless. Then when someone talks nice and adds a word which fits inside, you say "ludicrous, this is situational!".

Who is boring?
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Era II mods and utilities

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Siegfried
Siegfried


Famous Hero
posted October 31, 2014 03:05 PM

Hi,

maybe it would be nice if everybody calms down?

Just a reminder: This kind of communication lacks direct contact. You can't see your partner. So all the non-verbal communication, which in fact is more than 80% of the communication is missing here. This means that here you have to carefully choose your words. Not everything which is quite o.k. in face-to-face communication is o.k. here too. This quite restricted form of communication has an inherent risk of misunderstanding. It would be good for all to be as polite and forgiving as possible.


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ericoz
ericoz


Adventuring Hero
posted October 31, 2014 03:43 PM

I'm not angry or offended by any means. Don't care about the ad hominem on the internet coming from strangers either. Just find curious the examples used to defend what I call unbalanced/situational/bad. It's just opinions on an old game. Why would I ever get angry about it? By saying things me and some friends who used to play this game online used to think back in the day? Sure we can disagree on a lot of things, and I'm trying exactly to find a consensus.

I moved on. HOMM3 was a good game but needed a lot of rework. Knowing about HOTA and getting nostalgic to play it after years with a team that seems to think like I did is great news to me. It's surprising that people think the game is stable and balanced and all spells/SS/artifacts are well rounded and useful, I honestly think that 30% of the spells/SS/artifacts are garbage and need rework but maybe I'm looking into to a different style of gameplay.


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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted October 31, 2014 04:43 PM

Siegfried said:
Hi,

maybe it would be nice if everybody calms down?

Just a reminder: This kind of communication lacks direct contact. You can't see your partner. So all the non-verbal communication, which in fact is more than 80% of the communication is missing here. This means that here you have to carefully choose your words. Not everything which is quite o.k. in face-to-face communication is o.k. here too. This quite restricted form of communication has an inherent risk of misunderstanding. It would be good for all to be as polite and forgiving as possible.




Too late for this forum, if you look in some "places" also chauvinistic speechs are quite common.

I also agree with "Ericoz" in most things in the last 2-3 Posts of him. Anyways: The Game ist from 2000, other games also started to rebalance/reconcept at this time, same has happened with HoMM4+. AD&D->D&D, DSA3->4(TDE in US for "the dark eye"), Dungeon Keeper 1->2, even Wizardry 7->8,  changed the whole concept of balance in their games from "classic" to "balanced". (to name a few P&P/Games) It's the spirit of the times and HoMM3 will always be "Inbalanced" I think part of the lucky/unlucky game mechanic same as "works/didn't work" on Levelups in old P&P when you TRY to get one more point on that skill.

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nik312
nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 01, 2014 12:05 PM
Edited by nik312 at 12:47, 01 Nov 2014.

Ok. A lot of discussions took place since my last answer, so I'll go rather briefly:

Quote:
I have my own opinions and played some 1000+ online games during Heroes III golden age.


Well, that's an impressive amount, but as I get it from your posts (no offends) you are not much familiar with modern multiplayer and therefore - gameplay as a whole. So, please do not confuse other users by stating in a definitive manner: "multiplayer this", "multiplayer that".

Quote:
I always considered Heroes as a "game" where the fact that you can win due to a flaw or extreme luck is...part of the game and is fun

Of course it's OK to win due to extreme luck. But you see... Finding Cloak of the Undead King is not extreme luck. It's just luck. One specific relic, one minor and one treasure are rather easily collected with some fortune. IIRC about a tenth of Anarchy games ended with one side getting CoUD. Getting diplo and joining a stack of 20 Dread Knights because of their low aggressiveness on week 2 is no big luck at all. It's a small luck, giving huge advantage. Winning game due to 5 impossible morale/luck procs is kinda OK. Winning game due to 25% coin toss is ruining. This is what distincts fun part from game breaking mechanic.

Quote:
That some obscure russian tournaments consider Heroes as a sport and mainly a brain challenge, where every area has to be kinda mirrored


Yes, heroes game is a brain challenge. But that does not mean areas have to be mirrored. As I said earlier - winning due to extreme luck or getting some advantage due to RNG is fine in most cases. Adds some spice. But developers and rule creators must catch that point between "fun part of gameplay" and "game ruining element".

P.S. Though most important duels between strongest players are really more fun to play/watch on mirrored maps (special mirror templates in WT). But that's not for regular tournaments.

Quote:
Also Pirates with external dwellings are damn OP imo... same as vampire lords.


Ehm... No. Not even close. With 1 dwell of vamp lords you take any bank/cons and most of zone guards on 121 with just that one stack and no losses. With 2 dwells you can take even utope. Pirates are just a high-damage shooter that is easily killed by any random morale proc and that has no means of countering opposing shooters.

Quote:
sterilizing the game because a few MP players complain about balance


Not again... Why casual players always believe that they are playing some different game, than others? "OMG, my game is changed because of few players (playing other game) stupid complaints!!11!". Well, maybe that's because this is the same game. And this game has certain problems that players that maximize their usage of game mechanics, obviously, reveal more easily. And the fact that these people are "few amonst others" is imo rather tragical for the game. You can't see those problems when playing casually, but it doesn't mean they are not there. The same way competitive players don't see the problems of graphical design or game's lore.

We are not changing the game to satisfy some groups of people, we are changing it to make it better from all perspectives that we've set ourselves. There will always be some who understand and accept certain changes and some that don't. To play the game as we bring it or to complain 'bout our decisions - always people's choice. But you can't change that multisided integral way that we see the game.

Quote:
Hi, since you love complex games (as i do), you might like these ideas i've already implemented:


Hi, Siegfried. This is called "hero classes" and it was implemented once in WT. In HotA we decided it to be a non-classical element, so, it will not appear. Skill balance will be changed by changing skills themselves, not by creating some combinations.


P.S. Overall - a kind reminder that we don't really need ideas about gameplay/balance/random cool stuff. We have a lot of things to do already in mind, so for now intresting suggestions can rather appear in non-gameplay spheres (like interface for example).


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Pepebotijo
Pepebotijo

Tavern Dweller
posted November 01, 2014 12:51 PM
Edited by Pepebotijo at 12:56, 01 Nov 2014.

nik312 said:

P.S. Overall - a kind reminder that we don't really need ideas about gameplay/balance/random cool stuff. We have a lot of things to do already in mind, so for now intresting suggestions can rather appear in non-gameplay spheres (like interface for example).




Ok. About the UI: Sometimes is hard to see an enemy approaching to your territory. More than once I have lost some castle due to this. What about a blinking sign in the minimap and/or the main map?

Thanks
____________
Las batallas contra las mujeres
son las únicas que se ganan
huyendo.
NAPOLEÓN BONAPARTE

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nummi
nummi

Tavern Dweller
posted November 01, 2014 01:28 PM

As to non-gameplay. Map editor, the "obstacle tool".
Idea would be to give it more functionality in the sense that you can choose which objects it will place.
Sometimes nice and interesting combinations pop into mind but the problem is it requires objects from different terrains. And when a large area has to be filled then it takes quite a bit of work. This extra function would make map making easier and faster and more interesting.
I haven't seen many "unique" landscapes, usually there's no divergence from default combinations - so eventually it gets boring in this regard, especially if you see more possibilities that already exist in the game but are generally not used.

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kors
kors

Tavern Dweller
posted November 01, 2014 10:46 PM

Good evening. In the game there are the special terrain types (magic terrain, holy grounds, cursed grounds etc), but I know that they are never generated by the RMG. Could this be implemented in HotA? Of course I know the risks for the multiplayer balance, but it would be a fun addition that I only saw in the scenarios. Maybe make it like an option in the RMG options menu in order to satisfy both single player and multiplayer fans.

Also since this is my 1st post on these forums, I want to congratulate the whole HotA team for making this unofficial and true to the original expansion! Waited for something like this for years. Keep up the good work!

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2014 12:56 AM

I would prefer more variety to the random map algorythm, atm. its always the same stuff.

Larger Screen resolution would be nice too, at least if you could choose it.

Several buttons to speedup micromanagement, transfer all units button, buy all units from town button... e.g.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2014 02:26 AM
Edited by gatecrasher at 02:51, 02 Nov 2014.

P4R4D0X0N said:


Larger Screen resolution would be nice too, at least if you could choose it.

Several buttons to speedup micromanagement, transfer all units button, buy all units from town button... e.g.



Sounds like you might want to try the HD mod:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=33708

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2014 03:06 PM

does it work with HotA?

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Marc
Marc

Tavern Dweller
posted November 02, 2014 06:06 PM

Hello, this is my first post in heroes comunity and I from spain, sorry for my english.

I love heroes 3 and Horn of te abyss is a great expansion for the game. Congratulacions to Hota team.

I try to explain my sugestions: I make a easy mod modification the text files. Building same as Hota, crtraits, hero secondary abilities probabilities, and the most disbalanced and important, the magic.

Isn't logic than 1 level spell with expert is extremely powerful compared to spells damage on expert.

I changed this: 1 and 2 level damage spells effect power with non magic is 5.

Then is 15, 45, 135. For basic, advanced, expert, respectively.
That is multiplicate x3 each time.

For level 3 the same but the base effect is 10.

Level 4 is 15, and level 5 (only Implosion) is 20.

I make most changes but I will post them later.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 02, 2014 06:22 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
does it work with HotA?

Quote:
Platform and installing
The whole modification is created by reverse-engineering Shadow of Death files. So, HotA is to be installed on top of clean Heroes III: SoD or Complete edition. We do not guarantee stable work on any “optimized builds” or with mods that can change original game files (except for HD mod, which is 100% compatible). The modification surely will not work on AB, RoE or WoG. No ERM (or other script language) support is available.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2014 06:27 PM

I don't like "could"s and "may"s, sorry... In that case I think I've to wait...

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ericoz
ericoz


Adventuring Hero
posted November 03, 2014 01:36 AM

yes, mass level 1 spells are overpowered.

No, HOTA won't change it.

Yes, a lot of stuff are bad implemented and HOTA crew won't change it, because somehow it's a core part of the game. Deal with it.

Stop hating on Eagle Eye guys. It might be useful on a future map, who knows...

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Marc
Marc

Tavern Dweller
posted November 03, 2014 03:01 AM

thanks Ericoz, but I don't undestand this position. Anyone have not used ipnosis (for example) in his life. This is correct? No, that is one of the very disbalanced aspect of the game. Hota  is a great expansion searching for a perfect heroes 3 and the magic is not perfect in heroes 3.
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted November 03, 2014 03:19 AM

As stated they will take care of what they consider major flaws.
Wait and see!

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ericoz
ericoz


Adventuring Hero
posted November 03, 2014 03:47 AM

Na man hypnosis is fine, you just didn't play the right map to find it useful! It removes berserk, so it's a good spell. Very useful. That's why pendant of free will is such a good artifact too!

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Marc
Marc

Tavern Dweller
posted November 03, 2014 04:23 AM

jajaja nice Ericoz nice. pendant of free will is the best artifact!! I Know.

But in my heroes 3 that spell can have a chance to be used ( I never see its animation spell before) whith astral. It is funny to use...
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