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Marc
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 03, 2014 04:54 AM |
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Othe good change is devil and archdevil sped, because the manual of restoration of erathia says: archdevil "can move on any box of the batlle" this is true if archdevil has 19 speed perhaps archangel needs 19 or 20 speed, I prefeer 19. Archedevil and devil more defense than attack? Impossible, archdevil attack may be 29 and maybe his abilitie keeps -1 luck. Devil attack increased +2 or +3 and his speed +1. This is my humilde opinion.
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted November 03, 2014 07:00 PM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
I also think, that tactics is quite OP too in some constellations.
yes, for sure. Every experienced players know it.
ericoz said:
yes, mass level 1 spells are overpowered.
who cares ?
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ericoz
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 08:07 PM |
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Edited by ericoz at 20:10, 03 Nov 2014.
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Is your argument really in the form of a question?
HOMM2 cared when mass and single spells were separated. So did HOMM4. HOMM3 badly implemented it with Secondary Skills of magic. IMHO it was a bad move, proof is they went back to HOMM2 model in the later releases.
I honestly don't care, mate, just think they are better than a lot of level 4,5 spells and lacks balance. But who cares about balance anyway...
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 11:34 PM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 23:51, 03 Nov 2014.
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Haste and slow being level 1 spells means that they're much easier to obtain which you could argue makes them more balanced as you and your opponent will both have an easier time finding them, no?
Also, these spells can be pretty vital against neutrals in pretty much all stages of the game, and so changing what level group they belong to would have some severe consequences on how the game is normally played.
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ericoz
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 04, 2014 05:42 AM |
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Edited by ericoz at 05:55, 04 Nov 2014.
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Haste or slow can keep being level 1 (sometimes I think they should be level 2, but hey, it's just me and maybe Tournament Edition that agree on that). But mass haste and mass slow definitely shouldn't be level 1, hence why some people think they should be higher leveled. They are much stronger than so many higher level spells like forgetfulness, precision, disrupting ray, weakness, fire shield, air shield... These I just named might be too situational to even compare but they are still level 2+ and being higher leveled makes harder to get what is already a situational spell, rendering them useless in like 90%+ of the games.
While haste and slow are always useful, always causing huge impact into battle.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 04, 2014 11:32 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 16:20, 06 Nov 2014.
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hippox89 said:
Also, these spells can be pretty vital against neutrals in pretty much all stages of the game, and so changing what level group they belong to would have some severe consequences on how the game is normally played.
+1
HOMM first level spells being powerful at expert level is part of charm of this game (+1000 to Cape of Silence btw).
Removing it would be way too much a drastic change in gameplay and we all know HotA doesn't aim for that.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 04, 2014 02:11 PM |
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Indeed, haste and slow are fundamental on your average game. They are imbalanced in a way that make those two schools better than the rest (not only this two spells of course), and they also disrupt balance between their schools themselves, as only a very few spells may be used in combat before haste/slow.
I won't lie, I would love to separate mass spells from single unit spells (except high level spells like Prayer), and have the mass versions of haste, slow, bloodlust etc one or two levels above. I believe it was a mistake from 3DO to make mass versions obtainable through expert Magic School instead of separated like in H2 or H4.
BUT, with that said, I can't forget that HotA team wants to expand H3 experience. They don't want to make too radical changes to the game. And like it or hate it, Haste/Slow is a fundamental part of H3 as we know, and changing it would be against HotA direction. I don't see them changing this ever, and can I understand why.
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Marc
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 04, 2014 02:29 PM |
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Hello Storm-Giant, thanks for your modding tutorial of "la torre de marfil".
I aprove mass slow/haste, but why not increment the damage spell with expert? Is very poorly when you see expert Ice bolt does 20 points of damage more than basic ice bolt.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 04, 2014 02:38 PM |
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You're welcomed.
Marc said:
I aprove mass slow/haste, but why not increment the damage spell with expert? Is very poorly when you see expert Ice bolt does 20 points of damage more than basic ice bolt.
That can be changed in a second in game data. Personally I wouldn't be against that, but I don't know if HotA team will check spell after spell and make many small changes.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted November 04, 2014 06:24 PM |
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Maybe compromise: Slow - No Earth Magic -> one target, basic/advanced -> 2 enemies (1 random choosen), expert -> 3 enemies (2 random choosen). Same with "Haste".
Also possible: Rewrite "Mystic" or any other skill to add more max enemy counts to "mass spells" (basic -> 1 more enemy, advanced -> 2 more enemy, expert -> 4 more [in that case all 7 Slots with Earth/Air Magic])
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ericoz
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 04, 2014 07:07 PM |
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Edited by ericoz at 02:25, 05 Nov 2014.
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What is "charming" for some it's a game flaw for others, I guess.
Storm, do you really think it would be a drastic game change to separate them into single/mass? Depending on how you do it it wouldn't make a great impact on gameplay.
Honestly the drastic change imo was the bad implementation of SSs of magic.
Maybe the weaker (level 1) haste/slow could only affect low level units and/or have a fixed duration (2 rounds). Then a mass version of it could be stronger and affect all units. Idk for sure what would be better in terms of optimal balance but I'm pretty sure the way it is now is completely unbalanced.
In fact the whole magic (including the SSs that affect it like Eagle Eye, Mysticism, Sorcery...) in HOMM3 is somewhat unbalanced/bad implemented.
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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 04, 2014 09:17 PM |
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Quote:
Storm, do you really think it would be a drastic game change to separate them into single/mass? Depending on how you do it it wouldn't make a great impact on gameplay.
Yes. Any change to haste or slow would be a pretty drastic change. We will not go far with that if go anywhere at all. Haste/slow are kinda OK part of gameplay, the only problem is absolute power against neutrals in case of getting early mass-earth. There can be different ways of dealing with this including "not dealing at all". Which one will be chosen - still to find out some day.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 12:20 AM |
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I somehow understand Ericoz... You guys talk about structured "PvP" and "skilled player/gameplay" but never complain about "broken mechanic" or "worse balance" de facto it is in a lot of ways, even some PvP ppl. admit it but there is an omnipresent excuse for everything. It is a "charming" game with these flaws but "who cares?" about balance anyways?  Sorry but this is just paradox... how could u ever call it "PvP" when it's just a "skirmish". When you NEED to create rules to prevent "mechanic exploits" for example "no necro", "ban townportal", "ban angel wings", "ban shackles of war", "ban orb of inhibition", "ban orb of vulnurablity" ban this, ban that, ban players, ban everything... a good PvP Game would stand without any rules. Only rule: win the game vs all oponents by all means... Somehow its hard to understand you ppl.
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ericoz
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 03:02 AM |
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Edited by ericoz at 20:20, 07 Nov 2014.
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Those are my 2 cents:
Magic/artifacts/SS needs rework/balance.
Half of the spells are useless/weak/too situational/in the wrong level, low level spells being way stronger than high level ones. Thus giving might heroes too much advantage.
Earth is the only way to go. Maybe Air if you have haste (and because it counters slow, lol). If you waste 3 levels on another magic school you're done in a competitive game, unless you found a scroll of Berserk, Prayer or summon elemental early.
The best map control, debuff and damage spells are all earth. Meaning you will only choose another element because you had no choice.
Finding some specific Majors/Relics on shipwreck survivors or Dragon Utopias is game breaking. The already mentioned artifacts (inhibition, shackles, angel wings, Cloak of the Undead King...) are game breaking.
A third of the SSs are useless/bad. I'm not even mentioning, everyone knows.
No point implementing more stuff when bad stuff is around.
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nummi
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 05, 2014 07:50 AM |
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Some aspects might actually need more "balance" but generally what is needed is simply "more stuff". Powerful artifacts or spells? Keep them, don't remove them nor change them! The solution would be to introduce new ones that aren't as powerful - this means more variety, which also means more options of how to design a map and thus gameplay.
A game may be "balanced" but then it will become quite boring.
You don't like powerful artifacts and spells? Then disable them via the map editor - problem solved (but first more items are needed).
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 08:34 AM |
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nummi said:
Some aspects might actually need more "balance" but generally what is needed is simply "more stuff". Powerful artifacts or spells? Keep them, don't remove them nor change them! The solution would be to introduce new ones that aren't as powerful - this means more variety, which also means more options of how to design a map and thus gameplay.
A game may be "balanced" but then it will become quite boring.
You don't like powerful artifacts and spells? Then disable them via the map editor - problem solved (but first more items are needed).
Golden words!
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yojo2
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 05, 2014 08:55 AM |
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Just an idea, would it be possible to make magic terrain generate on random maps? That'd add more variety to the game.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted November 05, 2014 11:42 AM |
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nummi said:
Some aspects might actually need more "balance" but generally what is needed is simply "more stuff". Powerful artifacts or spells? Keep them, don't remove them nor change them! The solution would be to introduce new ones that aren't as powerful - this means more variety, which also means more options of how to design a map and thus gameplay.
A game may be "balanced" but then it will become quite boring.
You don't like powerful artifacts and spells? Then disable them via the map editor - problem solved (but first more items are needed).
I also agree on that, add more variety to the pool also would change the balance of artifact drop drastic. But that needs a bunch of new Items also on relic rank... would be quite difficult.
Imho balance means a greater variety of different tactics... as I mentioned before "Guild Wars 1" did a great job with balance, by buffing/nerfing worse and nice builds every month based on the tournaments pvp-games that are played, until a good balance was found.
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Marc
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 05, 2014 10:49 PM |
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Ericoz you can't have more reason. And for example cloack of the undead king (one of my favourites artifacts, not for power, it is fot its theme) will be a half of power to the necropolis grail or maybe the same power. It is 10 or 20 per cent to necromancy. Beacause summon power liches is very powerful. I don't understand what thinking heroes 3 team when they mades this and other questions. In spite of everything heroes 3 is one of the best games in history.
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Marc
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 05, 2014 11:01 PM |
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Edited by Marc at 23:13, 05 Nov 2014.
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In my opinion orb of inhibition and shackles, will be eliminated for the game. A might heroe with orb can be unstopable and magic hero with... what?? Armageddon and berserk will be nerfed too. Sorry for my english again.
Please I'll see the return of Galthran. Ranloo (sorry Hota crew) sucks.
I love Kinkeria image but her secondary ability and specialty is a snow. She will have earthquake or weakness specialty. But I understand its ability beacause she is the only heroe in learning ability right?
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