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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Hota] - English translation
Thread: [Hota] - English translation This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
hippox89
hippox89


Famous Hero
posted January 23, 2014 04:12 PM
Edited by hippox89 at 16:22, 23 Jan 2014.

heroes_fanboy said:
What is the problem here? If you are pointing at "sepulcher", this is US spelling.


Oh, I see. Yes, that was it. My mistake then. I didn't recognize 'sepulcher' as an English word. I thought to look the word up before posting, but I was like 'no way this is the proper English word'. I was indeed wrong.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwin Data Modeler
posted January 23, 2014 04:36 PM

Hobbit said:
Quote:
Guys, really, leave more detailed proofreading to native speakers.

There are not so many native speakers, and I'm afraid most of them wouldn't want to discuss stuff like that. And I still want to help in this way or another.


To be honest with you, I'd be happy to proof or vet all of the HotA texts myself, if a text dump were made available.
It wouldn't be my preference to do it all alone, but I'd still do it if I were asked and nobody else wants to.

And yeah, in my opinion, the number of people involved in it should be kept low, like maximum three people maybe, to ensure consistent work. You don't want a patchy proofread-by-committee where things are all over the place.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 23, 2014 05:10 PM

People at HotA asked as for help. I'm doing what I can, though I'm not a native-speaker. I'm not even a writer so I can't give HotA guys some advice on how to write novel-like scripts for their campaign scenarios. Writing some short texts for homework was all the artistry I've ever created . From the look of things I don't think HotA guys are people who have a big experience in this matter. They are great programmers, but they lack a bit in the script department (seriously guys don't mind me you're doing a great job , I wouldn't create anything better), so those texts are there to give their campaign some flavor. But let's just drop this subjective talk, as it is not the point here...

I'm helping them correct some obvious mistakes. If they decide to get help from ma native speaker it's fine by me, for now I'm trying to help them fix some obvious mistakes, things that can be done in few minutes (or so I hope) and implemented in the next fix/patch.

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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 23, 2014 05:20 PM
Edited by heroes_fanboy at 17:49, 23 Jan 2014.

blob2 said:
People at HotA asked as for help. I'm doing what I can, though I'm not a native-speaker.

...



I can't tell for sure, but... I hope you understand that because you're not a native speaker some (not all) of your suggestions might be wrong.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 23, 2014 05:38 PM
Edited by blob2 at 17:41, 23 Jan 2014.

heroes_fanboy said:
blob2 said:
People at HotA asked as for help. I'm doing what I can, though I'm not a native-speaker.

...



I can't tell for sure, but... I hope you understand that because you're not a native speaker some (not all) of your suggestions might me wrong.


Yeah I understand. But I'm sure that the specific errors I pointed out so far in this thread and my suggestions to fix them are correct. Of that I'm sure...

But those are "suggestions" so HotA guys don't have to listen to a non-native speaker

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Known Hero
posted January 23, 2014 06:07 PM

The last new Tavern rumour (stored in randtvrn.txt inside HotA_lng.lod) reads "...It will give you unpached power"

Is this supposed to be "unmatched"?

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Gnomes2169
Gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted January 23, 2014 07:08 PM

blob2 said:
nik312 said:
Firstly, thx for all reports, we will surely process those at same point. Secondly, I'm not quite sure, what is wrong here (though I feel that something is):

Quote:
There are many sentences in the campaign dialogs that read like this: ""Attack!" shouted I (insert Hero name). While it's not incorrect in terms of grammar (I think ), it definitely sounds funny


How would you advice to change that?


Simple, change the sequence of the words, for instance:

"Shouted I" -> I shouted"

or "Replied I" -> "I replied"

It's not that big of a deal, but believe me, in most novels, dialogs etc you won't find such a structure of a sentence. Usually it goes in this order: pronoun and after that a verb. It's hard for me to explain it to you grammatically, but hope I made it clear to some extent.

This would be correct, yes. Also, if you are using a pronoun such as "I", then you do not need to include another pronoun such as a person's title or their actual name. So instead of:
"Attack!" Shouted I, Fred, *as we charged from behind the trees.

You would have a sentence more like this:
"Attack!" I shouted, *leading my men from their hiding places in the tees.

(*Note, I added the second part just to make a more complete sentence and to set a scene, I have not actually played the game yet myself so I do not know the actual context that the scene is set in.)

And on that note, I actually do need to play Horn of the Abyss before I can comment on the discrepancies and changes that need to be made. Oh, and for future reference, unless you are listing someone's name you should only capitalize the first word in each sentence. So that moral box should not be capitalized completely.
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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 23, 2014 08:35 PM

Gnomes2169 said:


...

And on that note, I actually do need to play Horn of the Abyss before I can comment on the discrepancies and changes that need to be made. Oh, and for future reference, unless you are listing someone's name you should only capitalize the first word in each sentence. So that moral box should not be capitalized completely.


Verriker would like to work with a small group of native proofreaders on the translation, so you may want to join him later on.

This morale box is a really interesting thing. It looks like a problem with original HoMM 3. But the HotA Team is known for fixing even the issues of the original game, so maybe they will correct it.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 23, 2014 09:27 PM

Heroes 3 capitalizes a lot of adjacent things, for better reading.
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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 23, 2014 11:14 PM

Salamandre said:
Heroes 3 capitalizes a lot of adjacent things, for better reading.


But is it really the best way to make text easier to read?
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My suggestions are JUST suggestions. 1) I didn't mean to make fun of anybody. 2) I can always be WRONG--if that's the case I'm sorry.

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Gnomes2169
Gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted January 24, 2014 01:12 AM

Let's just go through these corrections quick...

blob2 said:
I'll go first:

Suggestion 1: There are many sentences in the campaign dialogs that read like this: ""Attack!" shouted I (insert Hero name). While it's not incorrect in terms of grammar (I think ), it definitely sounds funny

We already went over this one in my last post, so I'll just say, "Attack!" I shouted is the correct phrase and move on.

blob2 said:
Suggestion 2: The sentence "A shot thunder is more pleasing for him..." in Jeremy's bio. If I recall, there is no such term in English. In my opinion it would be better to exchange it into sth like "sound of a gun/pistol shot", or a "firing pistols sound"...

Perhaps instead the phrase could read, "The sound of cannons is more pleasing to his ear", if it involves a cannon or firearm, while "He finds the roar of thunder far more pleasant" would be more fitting if it was referring to the weather.

blob2 said:
Suggestion 3: Casmerta, fifth map of the Terror of the Seas campaign, second dialog "Chill! Your brother is alive!". While it's not incorrect in any way, it just doesn't feel to be okay in a medieval/fantasy setting of Heroes III, as "chill" or "chill out" is quite a new word in common language.

I'll agree to that, the dialogue just doesn't fit a HoMM setting. Instead of "Chill!", try "Calm down!" or "Relax!"

blob2 said:
"The freedom of Nix" !!!Spoilers ahead!!!

First dialog window (bolded words are my suggested changes):

+ "He was preoccupied about his people" - Simple "He was thinking about his people" would be enough...

I'll agree with this here, "preoccupied" does not fit with "about", though there is another option. While you could use, "He was thinking about his people," you could also say, "He was preoccupied with the fate of his people", which fits a fantasy setting a bit better.

blob2 said:
+ ...started Bidley, when Tark interrupted him... -> the next Tarks sentence should start here, not after the dot, as it is an insertion...

I would have to see this in context, but if Tark's dialogue continues immediately, then it should come after a period. So it would read:

... started Bidley, when Tark interrupted him. "(Dialogue)"...

blob2 said:
+ "Maybe you need some help?" offered (the) pirate (or it could be Bidley instead of "pirate")

the addition of the word "The" or just using Bidley's name in place of the title would be fore the best, yes. But only one or the other. (So either "the pirate" or "Bidley", but under no circumstances "the Bidley". that would be silly.)

blob2 said:
+ "No. You have a different road ahead of you"

Alternatively, you could say, "No, a different road lays before you." This would give it a more fantasy feel and make it seem like a bit more of an epic.

blob2 said:
+ "finished he" (see Suggestion 1)

Yeah, change that to "he finished" and it should work a bit better.

Second dialog window:

blob2 said:
+ "nix that lived here aloof for the island where Tark ruled" -> it doesn't sound natural. I suggest something like "lived here far from their native island and with no recognition to Tark's rule"

Close, but I would say "and they did not recognize Tark's rule" instead of "And with no recognition to Tark's rule". The Later is a bit more clumsy and just takes up a bit more space.

blob2 said:
+ "All in all Tark was the last heir" -> "Afterall, Tark was the last heir..." sounds better imo. The next sentence after that should start from the next paragraph, if you ask me...

Well, if it comes after a list of deceased family members, then I would go with, "In the end, Tark was the last heir". Otherwise, yes, I agree, "after all" fits better than "all in all". Either way, it's a good place to start a new paragraph.

blob2 said:
+ "(...) small island and it's nearby waters (...)."

Actually, not it's. "It's" means "Is is", which does not fit the context of the quote. It should be "Its" without the apostrophe instead.

blob2 said:
+ "In spite of their race slow and phlegmatic (sluggish sounds better) nature, as it goes with almost any other reptile, Tark quickly absorbed information. -> that's my suggestion for the start of this paragraph.

I would actually rearrange it so that it says, "In spite of the sluggish nature of his race, Tark quickly absorbed the information." That allows it to flow into the point a bit better.

blob2 said:
And about the third dialog window when you move a few steps (Nix Warrior): if the dialogs are kept in a prose style, there should be more narratives like: "After w few minutes walk Tark encountered a being that looked like a Nix clad in shining armor: "I cannot believe my eyes! You are a noble heir! - shouted the mysterious warrior..." -> But this is not a translation error, only my suggestion...

Nothing to comment on here, I would have to see the original to compare it.

blob2 said:
And I might be wrong, but I think that if "nix" is the name of the race (which is the name in itself), it should be written with a capital letter...

Nope, the names of races do not need an upper-case letter.
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agerweb
agerweb

Tavern Dweller
posted January 24, 2014 10:53 AM


Quote:

Simple, change the sequence of the words, for instance:

"Shouted I" -> I shouted"

or "Replied I" -> "I replied"


This is not a matter of correct English, but of personal taste. To finish with the pronoun is not incorrect it is merely old fashioned and for me is appropriate and sounds fine in a context which is essentially medieval.

Consequently I would agree with a previous poster that "Chill" is not appropriate in the context and does sound distinctly odd to my, albeit old fashioned, ear.  

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 24, 2014 12:45 PM
Edited by blob2 at 12:56, 24 Jan 2014.

Gnomes2169 said:
blob2 said:
+ ...started Bidley, when Tark interrupted him... -> the next Tarks sentence should start here, not after the dot, as it is an insertion...

I would have to see this in context, but if Tark's dialogue continues immediately, then it should come after a period. So it would read:

... started Bidley, when Tark interrupted him. "(Dialogue)"...


Unfortunately, I'm not able to make a screenshot of the whole dialog. You would probably see what I mean. But let's just drop it, it's not that important...

Gnomes2169 said:
blob2 said:
+ "Maybe you need some help?" offered (the) pirate (or it could be Bidley instead of "pirate")

the addition of the word "The" or just using Bidley's name in place of the title would be fore the best, yes. But only one or the other. (So either "the pirate" or "Bidley", but under no circumstances "the Bidley". that would be silly.)


Of course, forgot to indicate it, I thought it was obvious

Gnomes2169 said:
blob2 said:
+ "(...) small island and it's nearby waters (...)."

Actually, not it's. "It's" means "Is is", which does not fit the context of the quote. It should be "Its" without the apostrophe instead.


Of course your right, my bad, that's what I meant (and not "Is is" but "It is" )...

agerweb said:
This is not a matter of correct English, but of personal taste. To finish with the pronoun is not incorrect it is merely old fashioned and for me is appropriate and sounds fine in a context which is essentially medieval.


Yeah, and that's why I pointed out in one of the previous posts that it's not incorrect, yet unusual. But let's be honest: you rarely see this kind of writing, even in today's medieval or fantasy themed novels...



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Gnomes2169
Gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted January 24, 2014 04:06 PM

@Blob2: Derp, "Is is" is a typo. That is supposed to read "It is". But "It is" does not fit the context of the quote, the island is not the water, in fact, by definition is is above and separate from the water! So instead, the water belongs to it (its would be the possessive pronoun of it), so that's why there is no apostrophe.

@Agerweb: It's really, really close to broken english in today's day and age, and the only native speakers that write the verb before the pronoun tend to be children. As Blob said, even the medieval novels being written today go with "I said", but I'll also add that if they don't, then they tend to be very long, very dry and a bit pretentious.
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 24, 2014 05:09 PM
Edited by blob2 at 17:09, 24 Jan 2014.

Gnomes2169 said:
@Blob2: Derp, "Is is" is a typo. That is supposed to read "It is". But "It is" does not fit the context of the quote, the island is not the water, in fact, by definition is is above and separate from the water! So instead, the water belongs to it (its would be the possessive pronoun of it), so that's why there is no apostrophe.


Well, I was referring to your typo. You don't have to explain it to me, I know what the difference between "It's" and "its", is (damn, this is getting confusing). The whole problem was created by my own mistake, I unintentionally wrote it's instead of its

Nevertheless, thx for checking my suggestions, I hope HotA crew will make some use of this...

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted January 24, 2014 06:23 PM
Edited by The_Gootch at 19:17, 24 Jan 2014.

There seems to be a lack of organization for this proofreading effort, particularly this editing by committee.  In my opinion, lack of organization leads to wasted effort.  I'm not interested in wasting my time or anyone else's.

My suggestion is find one person who is both competent and willing, offer something of value to pique their interest, secure an agreement, give them a deadline, and wait for the results while occasionally staying in contact.  What is being done here will only end up as a mess and will lead to arguing over who screwed up more.


____________



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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Erwin Data Modeler
posted January 24, 2014 06:53 PM

Gnomes2169 said:
Nope, the names of races do not need an upper-case letter.


And already there's where we get into problems with consistency, because the Heroes series almost always capitalizes the names of races in its story texts, especially in Heroes 3 and Heroes Chronicles.
You need not only a decent proofreader, but one who obsesses over minor details in the context of the actual game and series itself.

The_Gootch said:
There seems to be a lack of organization for this proofreading effort, particularly this editing by committee. In my opinion, lack of organization leads to wasted effort. I'm not interested in wasting my time or anyone else's.

My suggestion is find one person who is both competent and willing, offer something of value to pique their interest, secure an agreement, give them a deadline, and wait foe the results while occasionally staying in contact. What is being done here will only end up as a mess and will lead to arguing over who screwed up more.



Damn straight
Unfortunately proofreading work is not in line with democracy. A forum thread where everyone gives piecemeal input will not do the job, though I appreciate blob2's efforts.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 24, 2014 07:03 PM

Well I created this thread, because HotA guys asked for it themselves...

But yeah, it would be better if one competent person (or a small team) took this upon himself/themselves to make it happen. I'm afraid I'm not competent enough, I'm a self-taught person and definitely not a native-speaker so as far as I can help correct some obvious mistakes, I won't be able to reedit the whole "script"...

It's up to HotA team to decide how they want to do this, they already see there are people willing to help them if they'll enable some suitable files...

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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 24, 2014 07:08 PM

The_Gootch said:
There seems to be a lack of organization for this proofreading effort, particularly this editing by committee.  In my opinion, lack of organization leads to wasted effort.  I'm not interested in wasting my time or anyone else's.

...




I think this "editing by committee" is the first unofficial effort to point out the issues of the translation.

I'm sure real translation proofreading would be much more organized, and whoever is willing to do this will be contacted personally by the HotA Crew.

So I suggest that the native speakers of English who want to help should just declare it here, and wait.
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My suggestions are JUST suggestions. 1) I didn't mean to make fun of anybody. 2) I can always be WRONG--if that's the case I'm sorry.

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nik312
nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 25, 2014 05:30 AM

heroes_fanboy said:
The_Gootch said:
There seems to be a lack of organization for this proofreading effort, particularly this editing by committee.  In my opinion, lack of organization leads to wasted effort.  I'm not interested in wasting my time or anyone else's.

...




I think this "editing by committee" is the first unofficial effort to point out the issues of the translation.

I'm sure real translation proofreading would be much more organized, and whoever is willing to do this will be contacted personally by the HotA Crew.

So I suggest that the native speakers of English who want to help should just declare it here, and wait.


Exactly

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