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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Hota] - English translation
Thread: [Hota] - English translation This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 19, 2014 02:35 PM
Edited by blob2 at 14:44, 19 Jan 2014.

[Hota] - English translation

Hi!

Guys from Horn of the Abyss crew asked to help them spot as many English translation mistakes/typos in order to make their mod even better then it already is. Most of you guys probably play the English version of the mod, so it would be nice to make this version as polished as possible. I don't know Russian (the native language of HotA creators, and the original mods written language), so I can't tell how the English version compares to the original in terms of the written text, but let's just focus on the English one (or, if someone is able to, make suggestions based on the Russian version of the mod).

Please post errors/mistakes/misspellings/typos that you've found and possible suggestions (if you want) to correct them.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 19, 2014 02:40 PM
Edited by blob2 at 16:06, 19 Jan 2014.

I'll go first:

Suggestion 1: There are many sentences in the campaign dialogs that read like this: ""Attack!" shouted I (insert Hero name). While it's not incorrect in terms of grammar (I think ), it definitely sounds funny

Suggestion 2: The sentence "A shot thunder is more pleasing for him..." in Jeremy's bio. If I recall, there is no such term in English. In my opinion it would be better to exchange it into sth like "sound of a gun/pistol shot", or a "firing pistols sound"...

Suggestion 3: Casmerta, fifth map of the Terror of the Seas campaign, second dialog "Chill! Your brother is alive!". While it's not incorrect in any way, it just doesn't feel to be okay in a medieval/fantasy setting of Heroes III, as "chill" or "chill out" is quite a new word in common language.

"The freedom of Nix" !!!Spoilers ahead!!!

First dialog window (bolded words are my suggested changes):

+ "He was preoccupied about his people" - Simple "He was thinking about his people" would be enough...

+ ...started Bidley, when Tark interrupted him... -> the next Tarks sentence should start here, not after the dot, as it is an insertion...

+ "Maybe you need some help?" offered (the) pirate (or it could be Bidley instead of "pirate")

+ "No. You have a different road ahead of you"

+ "finished he" (see Suggestion 1)

Second dialog window:

+ "nix that lived here aloof for the island where Tark ruled" -> it doesn't sound natural. I suggest something like "lived here far from their native island and with no recognition to Tark's rule"

+ "All in all Tark was the last heir" -> "Afterall, Tark was the last heir..." sounds better imo. The next sentence after that should start from the next paragraph, if you ask me...

+ "(...) small island and it's nearby waters (...)."

+ "In spite of their race slow and phlegmatic (sluggish sounds better) nature, as it goes with almost any other reptile, Tark quickly absorbed information. -> that's my suggestion for the start of this paragraph.

And about the third dialog window when you move a few steps (Nix Warrior): if the dialogs are kept in a prose style, there should be more narratives like: "After w few minutes walk Tark encountered a being that looked like a Nix clad in shining armor: "I cannot believe my eyes! You are a noble heir! - shouted the mysterious warrior..." -> But this is not a translation error, only my suggestion...

And I might be wrong, but I think that if "nix" is the name of the race (which is the name in itself), it should be written with a capital letter...

For now that's all, because at the moment I can't go back to previous maps. I'll write some more when I'll find more things...

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Known Hero
posted January 19, 2014 03:01 PM

blob2 said:


Suggestion 3: Casmerta, fifth map of the Terror of the Seas campaign, second dialog "Chill! Your brother is alive!". While it's not incorrect in any way, it just doesn't feel to be okay in a medieval/fantasy setting of Heroes III.


What's wrong here.? HotA dialogues are translated from special Russian slang in many cases. Why not use English slang / colloquial language?
Should they use Old/Middle English? In contrast to Old English manifested in written documents (which are unintelligible to non-specialists and differ considerably from the then-slang/vernacular/everyday language) what you my be referring to as medieval/fantasy English used in some films etc. is mostly an awkward-sounding unauthentic Shakespeare-time pidgin.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 19, 2014 03:52 PM
Edited by blob2 at 16:03, 19 Jan 2014.

gatecrasher said:
blob2 said:


Suggestion 3: Casmerta, fifth map of the Terror of the Seas campaign, second dialog "Chill! Your brother is alive!". While it's not incorrect in any way, it just doesn't feel to be okay in a medieval/fantasy setting of Heroes III.


What's wrong here.? HotA dialogues are translated from special Russian slang in many cases. Why not use English slang / colloquial language?
Should they use Old/Middle English? In contrast to Old English manifested in written documents (which are unintelligible to non-specialists and differ considerably from the then-slang/vernacular/everyday language) what you my be referring to as medieval/fantasy English used in some films etc. is mostly an awkward-sounding unauthentic Shakespeare-time pidgin.



Like I already said, it's not an error in any way. It just doesn't sound right to me, it's like some kinda dude shouted "Chill out man, imma gonna roll with dis s*it" kinda thing. Not sth a serious Hydromancer would say...

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Frank Erwinatra
posted January 19, 2014 05:04 PM
Edited by verriker at 17:05, 19 Jan 2014.

I'm a native English speaker, I just don't always let my posts reflect it, lol

The translation is meh to adequate. There's room for improvement especially in the campaign texts. You see a direct translation isn't always the best one, when you're feeding stuff from another language back into the original game. Lots of stuff like in blob2's post feels stilted, and makes me cringe. It could be fixed with minor edits.
"A shot thunder" is meaningless.

I also noticed some stylistic inconsistencies between HotA and the rest of Heroes 3, such as the HotA hero bios, some of which are extremely long and contain line breaks.
All text in Heroes 3 should have double spacing too, HotA however doesn't.

Needs work to feel professional/on par with the original game text.
If you put up a text dump, I'd like to make specific suggestions, in my spare time.

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Hobbit
Hobbit


Supreme Hero
posted January 19, 2014 05:30 PM

Quote:
I also noticed some stylistic inconsistencies between HotA and the rest of Heroes 3, such as the HotA hero bios, some of which are extremely long and contain line breaks.

Yes, exactly. While other heroes' bios are just about 2-3 sentences long, every Cove hero is like another book.
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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 20, 2014 02:36 AM
Edited by heroes_fanboy at 02:45, 20 Jan 2014.

verriker said:

...

Needs work to feel professional/on par with the original game text.
If you put up a text dump, I'd like to make specific suggestions, in my spare time.


It is really nice of you that you want to help them. Translations done by non-native speakers SHOULD BE PROOFREAD to make sure they sound natural, and that there is no negative transfer (as is the term in linguistics) from the translator's mother tongue. You can read more about it on Wikipedia, and in professional linguistic journals. It's good for a translator to know about such things.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 20, 2014 12:47 PM
Edited by blob2 at 13:01, 20 Jan 2014.

heroes_fanboy said:
It is really nice of you that you want to help them. Translations done by non-native speakers SHOULD BE PROOFREAD to make sure they sound natural, and that there is no negative transfer (as is the term in linguistics) from the translator's mother tongue.


Assuming that Verriker was an A student in his English lessons

I might not be a native speaker, but I understand those nuisances quite well. Many errors in HotA translations have their origin in the differences between "knowing" and "understanding" the meaning of words or sentences in both languages. For instance, many English words, like in other languages, can be used in different situations, and I'm not talking about naughty words Words that are correct in terms of grammar or their dictionary meaning, don't necessarily fit into a sentence.

The problem in my case lies in grammar and punctuation. Things, that are problematic even in your own language, so it's better for someone that actually uses the language on a daily basis to check those dialogs (or someone with a writers passion ). Dialogs in HotA are a kind of fanfiction, so they should be treated like actual prose

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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 20, 2014 03:10 PM
Edited by heroes_fanboy at 15:34, 20 Jan 2014.

blob2 said:

...

Assuming that Verriker was an A student in his English lessons

I might not be a native speaker, but I understand those nuisances quite well. Many errors in HotA translations have their origin in the differences between "knowing" and "understanding" the meaning of words or sentences in both languages. For instance, many English words, like in other languages, can be used in different situations, and I'm not talking about naughty words Words that are correct in terms of grammar or their dictionary meaning, don't necessarily fit into a sentence.

The problem in my case lies in grammar and punctuation. Things, that are problematic even in your own language, so it's better for someone that actually uses the language on a daily basis to check those dialogs (or someone with a writers passion ). Dialogs in HotA are a kind of fanfiction, so they should be treated like actual prose


It is not just a matter of how well non-native speakers learned English grammar at school, but it is rather a problem with grammar in their heads. We (I'm not a native speaker either) didn't acquire English we learned it. So even if Verriker got Cs only, he still would be able to spot fragments which sound unnatural for HE IS a native speaker. That's why proofreading would be a good thing.

To illustrate what I mean consider this example from Polish. If someone asks you "Co?" ("What?" in English), and you, for instance, don't want to speak with this person you can give this one word rude reply rhyming with "Co?"; "jajo", "jajco", "nico", "g*wno". You can't use any word here when replying, or you won't achieve the same effect. And this is not something that you can just look up in dictionaries.

I recommend you read this article in Polish on 'formulaicity'.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 20, 2014 05:05 PM
Edited by blob2 at 17:11, 20 Jan 2014.

heroes_fanboy said:
To illustrate what I mean consider this example from Polish. If someone asks you "Co?" ("What?" in English), and you, for instance, don't want to speak with this person you can give this one word rude reply rhyming with "Co?"; "jajo", "jajco", "nico", "g*wno". You can't use any word here when replying, or you won't achieve the same effect. And this is not something that you can just look up in dictionaries.

I recommend you read this article in Polish on 'formulaicity'.


Wiesz, szczerze mowiac nie-Polak moze miec problem z przeczytaniem tego tekstu, bo jest on na tyle rozbudowany, ze Google Translate raczej tego poprawnie nie przetlumaczy (a watpie zeby komus z forumowiczow chcialo sie tu slenczec z kilkoma slownikami na raz). Ja rozumiem o co Ci chodzi, tylko jak to teraz wytlumaczyc innym... (ale to tak miedzy nami Polakami).

I suppose HotA text is not that ambitious to analyze it deeper (of course I don't mean to mock HotA crew in any way , they are doing a great job). I think we might have gone a little to deep into it heroes_fanboy. After some thought I think that pinpoiting and correcting some obvious mistakes, mispellings and typos that appear in the dialogs would be enough, and that's what I'm asking people here...

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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 20, 2014 09:56 PM
Edited by heroes_fanboy at 21:58, 20 Jan 2014.

blob2 said:

...

Wiesz, szczerze mowiac nie-Polak moze miec problem z przeczytaniem tego tekstu, bo jest on na tyle rozbudowany, ze Google Translate raczej tego poprawnie nie przetlumaczy (a watpie zeby komus z forumowiczow chcialo sie tu slenczec z kilkoma slownikami na raz). Ja rozumiem o co Ci chodzi, tylko jak to teraz wytlumaczyc innym... (ale to tak miedzy nami Polakami).

I suppose HotA text is not that ambitious to analyze it deeper (of course I don't mean to mock HotA crew in any way , they are doing a great job). I think we might have gone a little to deep into it heroes_fanboy. After some thought I think that pinpoiting and correcting some obvious mistakes, mispellings and typos that appear in the dialogs would be enough, and that's what I'm asking people here...


Bo ten artykul byl przeznaczony dla Ciebie. Zobaczylem w profilu, ze jestes z Polski.

I think the HotA Team tries to be as professional as it is only possible. And if Verriker says that "The translation is meh to adequate. There's room for improvement especially in the campaign texts." they should at least accept his offer of help. I'm not saying the HotA Team is now to give up everything and focus only on translation. However, with the help of native speakers, and other users looking for typos and misspellings, we may achieve one day absolutely professional translation.  

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 21, 2014 12:16 AM
Edited by blob2 at 00:18, 21 Jan 2014.

heroes_fanboy said:
Bo ten artykul byl przeznaczony dla Ciebie. Zobaczylem w profilu, ze jestes z Polski.


Faktycznie. Zapomialem, ze mam tam wpisana taka informacje

Returning back to the task at hand, this (SPOILERS):



There are a few mistake here, I suggest this corrections:

- "to my cabin"

- "Casmetra, I have a suspicion..." this whole sentence feels wrong. It should be something like: "Casmetra, I have this uneasy (or disturbing) feeling, that you could've casted the spell without harming the galley" - I said, while looking straight (sounds more dramatic ) into her eyes...

- "...stretch between..." -> "tension" or "distance" would be better here.

- "I kept insisting"...

- "flared up Casmetra and stomped the ground graciously" -> this feels mighty unnatural. I suggest: "Casmetra bursted with anger, and graciously stomped with her foot (whatever it means )"

- "I replied"

- "My head goes round from all of this" -> "My head feels dizzy from all of this" (Or "I'm feeling confused", but this word was used in the previous sentence)

- "I'm a bit edgy" -> "I feel like I'm on the edge"

- "I drink hard every night to get some sleep"

PS: I don't think we can see a full re-check of the translation anytime soon (most of us probably don't have enough time for this), so I'll post some things in hopes that HotA team will at least include those few fixes in their next patch...

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hippox89
hippox89


Famous Hero
posted January 23, 2014 02:14 AM
Edited by hippox89 at 16:12, 23 Jan 2014.

Edit: never mind

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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 23, 2014 01:50 PM
Edited by heroes_fanboy at 13:56, 23 Jan 2014.

hippox89 said:



What is the problem here? If you are pointing at "sepulcher", this is US spelling.

EDIT: Or maybe you've noticed that all the words are capitalized?

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nik312
nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 23, 2014 02:20 PM

Firstly, thx for all reports, we will surely process those at same point. Secondly, I'm not quite sure, what is wrong here (though I feel that something is):

Quote:
There are many sentences in the campaign dialogs that read like this: ""Attack!" shouted I (insert Hero name). While it's not incorrect in terms of grammar (I think ), it definitely sounds funny


How would you advice to change that?

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Hobbit
Hobbit


Supreme Hero
posted January 23, 2014 03:06 PM

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that inversion in such sentences can be used if a subject is not a pronoun. So it should be "I shouted" instead of "shouted I". But I'm not a native speaker...
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Abyss on AcidCave

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted January 23, 2014 03:15 PM
Edited by blob2 at 15:17, 23 Jan 2014.

nik312 said:
Firstly, thx for all reports, we will surely process those at same point. Secondly, I'm not quite sure, what is wrong here (though I feel that something is):

Quote:
There are many sentences in the campaign dialogs that read like this: ""Attack!" shouted I (insert Hero name). While it's not incorrect in terms of grammar (I think ), it definitely sounds funny


How would you advice to change that?


Simple, change the sequence of the words, for instance:

"Shouted I" -> I shouted"

or "Replied I" -> "I replied"

It's not that big of a deal, but believe me, in most novels, dialogs etc you won't find such a structure of a sentence. Usually it goes in this order: pronoun and after that a verb. It's hard for me to explain it to you grammatically, but hope I made it clear to some extent.

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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 23, 2014 03:18 PM

Guys, really, leave more detailed proofreading to native speakers. And if you can find a one interested in English language it'd be even better.

I'm telling you this as a person who is into linguistics, one must spend a helluva lot of time abroad to use language in a more natural way, but even then she/he (most likely) wouldn't be as natural as a native speaker.

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Hobbit
Hobbit


Supreme Hero
posted January 23, 2014 03:32 PM

Quote:
Guys, really, leave more detailed proofreading to native speakers.

There are not so many native speakers, and I'm afraid most of them wouldn't want to discuss stuff like that. And I still want to help in this way or another.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave

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heroes_fanboy
heroes_fanboy


Known Hero
posted January 23, 2014 03:47 PM
Edited by heroes_fanboy at 15:49, 23 Jan 2014.

Hobbit said:
Quote:
Guys, really, leave more detailed proofreading to native speakers.

There are not so many native speakers, and I'm afraid most of them wouldn't want to discuss stuff like that. And I still want to help in this way or another.


I'm not saying that we non-native speakers of English cannot suggest anything, but the decision about the final shape of texts should belong TO native speakers.

And as HotA becomes more and more popular, I'm sure we find more of them out there.

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