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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Heroes 7 - Factions
Thread: Heroes 7 - Factions This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT»
Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 02, 2014 12:36 PM

SepSpring said:
Time-line is the key factor in this case. Deciding to reveal the earliest historical events of Ashan will make some factions unable to be implemented.


I don't think they will go so far back in history that they wouldn't be able to release at least 5 factions. Like, we will probably never see a Shantiri era standalone. And I don't think Ubi will risk releasing another prequel, unless they want to bore the fanbase to death. We already had one with H6. Two in a row is franchise harakiri.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted March 02, 2014 02:41 PM

SepSpring said:
Time-line is the key factor in this case. Deciding to reveal the earliest historical events of Ashan will make some factions unable to be implemented.

I doubt Ubi will go back in time for a second time in row...it would be overkill.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 02, 2014 03:52 PM

We don't need to revert to the Shantiri era for ubi to tell us its story.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 03, 2014 09:43 AM

MattII said:
Stevie said:
4 people agreeing on this? No way...
Well considering that these were the six factions of H2, considered by many to be the best game of the series.


Actually, my base is in H3, I just stripped off the factions that I didn't consider to be particularly interesting in that game (Inferno, Fortress and Conflux) .

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 03, 2014 11:09 AM

Fortress at least was very interesting to play. Different playstyle than most, unconventional lineup, lots of tricky tactics. And that town screen.. Amazing.
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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted March 03, 2014 12:09 PM

Storm-Giant said:
SepSpring said:
Time-line is the key factor in this case. Deciding to reveal the earliest historical events of Ashan will make some factions unable to be implemented.

I doubt Ubi will go back in time for a second time in row...it would be overkill.

Don't think they should go back in time....would love to hear the story post Dark Messiah times....

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hahakocka
hahakocka


Known Hero
posted March 08, 2014 11:54 AM

New music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGHK1pMjakA

Are you heard this? Good operatistic kind of Heroes 4 style music for a new unnamed project from Mr Romero the creator of all of Heroes games music. He worked with this beatiful talented lady on almost every Heroes and of yourse there is also there Rob King too the creator of sounds and music of Heroes series!
The video will be online for 24-48 hours. Really good voice and it has got a great mood.


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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted March 08, 2014 01:46 PM

We can't give for granted that is a work for a Heroes game, most likely is something totally non-related to Heroes. Don't forget that both Rob King and Paul Romero stopped working on the Might & Magic franchise.

Might & Magic X : Legacy music was composed by Jason Graves and Roc Chen, and the most natural follow up would be having them again for next M&M game, for better or worse.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 08, 2014 04:49 PM

I still hope they will change their mind when the time comes.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted March 08, 2014 05:35 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 17:40, 08 Mar 2014.

Storm-Giant said:
alcibiades said:
Storm-Giant said:
If it's going to be as purple as in H6, I'm right there with you here (those manticore & minotaur upgrades still give me the creeps)

Purple Manticore definitely topped it off, but even back in H3 Dungeon was a mess.

What do you mean with this?

H3 Dungeon seemed to be created by making a brainstorm over the theme "creatures that live in a dungeon". That was not a lot different from how many of the other factions were created back in H3 - for instance Rampart seemed to be created over a similar "creatures that live in a forest" theme - but it did end up with something that you could descripe as messy or heterogene in that the different creatures didn't seem to have much of a logical connection.

Obviously this is a topic that has been discussed to death many times, but personally I prefer the approach that they did in H5, namely trying to group together creatures that you could actually imagine coexisting, and then placing them in an appropriate setting and crafting them over an appropriate theme (or in some cases perhaps less appropriate, eg. Dungeon S&M).



PS: I see a lot of dislike for Sanctuary. A bit sad about this, I think thematically and artwise they were perhaps the prettiest faction of H6 and I would definitely want to see this faction envisioned in a more succesfull game. Also, nagas are in current heroes lore as much a core race ase humans and elves, so really, if you want a game with the core races, why wouldn't they be in?
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted March 08, 2014 07:15 PM

alcibiades said:
H3 Dungeon seemed to be created by making a brainstorm over the theme "creatures that live in a dungeon". That was not a lot different from how many of the other factions were created back in H3 - for instance Rampart seemed to be created over a similar "creatures that live in a forest" theme - but it did end up with something that you could descripe as messy or heterogene in that the different creatures didn't seem to have much of a logical connection.

Obviously this is a topic that has been discussed to death many times, but personally I prefer the approach that they did in H5, namely trying to group together creatures that you could actually imagine coexisting, and then placing them in an appropriate setting and crafting them over an appropriate theme (or in some cases perhaps less appropriate, eg. Dungeon S&M).

I see. It's true what you say, factions in H3 weren't the most coherent ones.

But it was something I could live with it, since the art style was good enough. The excesive colour-focused H6 factions, on the other hand...

alcibiades said:
PS: I see a lot of dislike for Sanctuary. A bit sad about this, I think thematically and artwise they were perhaps the prettiest faction of H6 and I would definitely want to see this faction envisioned in a more succesfull game. Also, nagas are in current heroes lore as much a core race ase humans and elves, so really, if you want a game with the core races, why wouldn't they be in?

I agree with several folks here, Sanctuary is okay, but for H7 starting factions I'd rather get others
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 08, 2014 09:11 PM
Edited by MattII at 21:34, 08 Mar 2014.

alcibiades said:
H3 Dungeon seemed to be created by making a brainstorm over the theme "creatures that live in a dungeon". That was not a lot different from how many of the other factions were created back in H3 - for instance Rampart seemed to be created over a similar "creatures that live in a forest" theme - but it did end up with something that you could descripe as messy or heterogene in that the different creatures didn't seem to have much of a logical connection.
I take another view, that is wasn't so much the creatures that were at fault as the theoretically intelligent races, if they'd swapped out the H3 Rampart centaurs for faeries, it would have left them with only 2 races, elves and dwarves, both of which had heroes. Dungeon would be harder since you have 4 theoretically intelligent races, but if you can remove the Medusas (possibly replacing them with Cockatrices, and giving the Minotaur Kings axe-throwing), then you remove at least one issue.

Quote:
PS: I see a lot of dislike for Sanctuary. A bit sad about this, I think thematically and artwise they were perhaps the prettiest faction of H6 and I would definitely want to see this faction envisioned in a more succesfull game. Also, nagas are in current heroes lore as much a core race ase humans and elves, so really, if you want a game with the core races, why wouldn't they be in?
As I see it, part of the issue here is that Nagas, being what they are, would lack the Artefact slot 'Feet', and thus most of their heroes are human, which I suppose in some peoples minds kind of 'cheapens' the faction. They may also been seen as driver of 'humanisation' in the other factions (you'll note it's often not easy to tell the difference between 'race' heroes and humans, certainly Inferno in H6 has no-one who looks like Deleb, Grok or Nymus), which would not make them popular either.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted March 08, 2014 09:17 PM

Meh, the fun in heroes is playing with mythological creatures. A faction with harpies, medusae, minotaurs, dragons and manticores is made of win.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 08, 2014 09:36 PM
Edited by MattII at 21:43, 08 Mar 2014.

Oh I'm not saying to homogenise the faction, just give each race that uses weapons at least a hero or two, that or a really good reason not to have heroes (like the Minotaurs in H5).

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SepSpring
SepSpring


Known Hero
posted March 08, 2014 10:12 PM

I enjoyed the common style of Sanctuary (except Pearl Maidens for their ancient Greek appearance that doesn't fit the faction's concept) before the introduction of town screens and some cards from "Duel of Champions" that destroyed the faction's charm for me.

Hope to see Fortress and Sanctuary in the next "Heroes" instalment. Little is known about these factions, so the seventh part of the series is possibly able to make them more attractive and interesting for players.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 08, 2014 11:37 PM

Elvin said:
Meh, the fun in heroes is playing with mythological creatures. A faction with harpies, medusae, minotaurs, dragons and manticores is made of win.

I agree and go a step farther: the fun in heroes is playing with mythological creatures AND THEIR MYTHOLOGICAL POWERS (as "abilities").

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted March 09, 2014 11:03 AM

I don't know, I was ok with H2 and H3, but I like H5 a lot more in that regard.

I want to play a certain faction, one race, like Orcs, Undeads, Demons, Dark Elves, Dwarfs etc, and not just random creatures from one town(not really random but you get my point).

Oh and H4 was the complete horror in that regard, that was beyond stupidity.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 09, 2014 11:32 AM

That's just an illusion.
Undead are no RACE, they just share a trait.
The Barbarian forces also share only a trait (and in HoMM 5 the Wyvern don't).
What's the racial element with Academy? A mix of consstructs, spirits and golems?

So we may be better off, if we conclude that it's not RACE that is the lement to unify a certain number of units with, but THEME. Undead is a theme, the mix of creature/demon is a theme, Dwarves and their allies, avatars, animals and so on is a theme, the human race is a theme as well...

However, unifying creatures under the theme of a certain terrain is a theme as well, and giving them additional abilities on their home terrain is a racial ability, too.

(In HoMM 4 the theme is Magic - works well for game purpose, but lacks somewhat in other areas; naturally, as well, since they reduced creatures.)

So as with everything it's just a matter of finding the right themes, the right combination of critters and the right factional abilities.

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted March 09, 2014 12:00 PM

JollyJoker said:
That's just an illusion.
Undead are no RACE, they just share a trait.
The Barbarian forces also share only a trait (and in HoMM 5 the Wyvern don't).
What's the racial element with Academy? A mix of consstructs, spirits and golems?

So we may be better off, if we conclude that it's not RACE that is the lement to unify a certain number of units with, but THEME. Undead is a theme, the mix of creature/demon is a theme, Dwarves and their allies, avatars, animals and so on is a theme, the human race is a theme as well...

However, unifying creatures under the theme of a certain terrain is a theme as well, and giving them additional abilities on their home terrain is a racial ability, too.

(In HoMM 4 the theme is Magic - works well for game purpose, but lacks somewhat in other areas; naturally, as well, since they reduced creatures.)

So as with everything it's just a matter of finding the right themes, the right combination of critters and the right factional abilities.

As far as I know, all of the Undead creatures come from Necromancy. Of course they are not a race but they are pretty well put together in any game and it isn't that hard since they are usually Ghosts and evil spirits used and controlled by Necromancers.
 
And there should be some creatures that aren't of that race but are used by that race like Wyverns in H5 that are used by Orcs. Same as Hydras and Minotaurs in H5 that are basically slaves for Dark Elves or Treants and Unicorns that are used by Wood Elves.

Academy doesn't have racial element, but all those Constructs, Spirits and Golems are created by Wizards, so they have something in common.

You can call it a theme, sure, but it is much better from me if the theme is resolving around tribe/race/wizardry/trait than "Lets mix up all of the creatures we can find in dungeon/swamp/forest and call it a day".
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SepSpring
SepSpring


Known Hero
posted March 09, 2014 12:12 PM

How can these creatures be associated with Sanctuary?.. Yeti seems more suitable for the Dwarves, and Fox... No ideas about it.


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