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| Thread: Heroes 7 - Factions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 09, 2014 12:34 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
You can call it a theme, sure, but it is much better from me if the theme is resolving around tribe/race/wizardry/trait than "Lets mix up all of the creatures we can find in dungeon/swamp/forest and call it a day".
That's your opinion, but if you look at Sylvans, you can just as well say that the faction is led and dominated by Druids, living in the woods, and that they recruit the creatures of the wood. That makes no less sense as declaring that the "Elven faction".
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2014 01:01 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
RMZ1989 said:
You can call it a theme, sure, but it is much better from me if the theme is resolving around tribe/race/wizardry/trait than "Lets mix up all of the creatures we can find in dungeon/swamp/forest and call it a day".
That's your opinion, but if you look at Sylvans, you can just as well say that the faction is led and dominated by Druids, living in the woods, and that they recruit the creatures of the wood. That makes no less sense as declaring that the "Elven faction".
As I said, it is ok to have different creatures, but not JUST creatures, that is my whole point. Sylvan is still Elven faction, they have 3 Elf units(4 if you consider those Dryads as some sort of Elven Spirits), but they have creatures from their environment that they can use/control/tame. Same as Dungeon, they have Minotaurs, Hydras and Dragons that they use, and have 4 Dark Elf units.
On the other hand, who is controlling and using all those units in H3? Even though they are themed together to terrain, they still feel somehow out of place.
A Dragon Flies, Basillisks, Gorgons, Wyverns and Hydras? Great combination of units! Wait what?
And yes, this is just my opinion, I thought it was pretty much clear from the start.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 09, 2014 01:09 PM |
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SepSpring said:
How can these creatures be associated with Sanctuary?.. Yeti seems more suitable for the Dwarves, and Fox... No ideas about it.
 
These are associated with the Shanriya nagas who dwell in an icy region. General snow theme I guess.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Fox
Personally I prefer a mix between racial and environmental themed factions. I would like a sylvan with an elf archer and a druid plus woodland creatures but not so much a sylvan with half of its units elven. Similarly I would like a fortress with a dwarven defender, a rune priest and maybe a crossbow scout/engineer but not something like the H5 fortress again. The rest of the units could be tied to the environment they live in(whether subterranean or frozen terrain) or to the dwarven culture/gameplay.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2014 01:18 PM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 13:22, 09 Mar 2014.
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Elvin said:
Personally I prefer a mix between racial and environmental themed factions. I would like a sylvan with an elf archer and a druid plus woodland creatures but not so much a sylvan with half of its units elven. Similarly I would like a fortress with a dwarven defender, a rune priest and maybe a crossbow scout/engineer but not something like the H5 fortress again. The rest of the units could be tied to the environment they live in(whether subterranean or frozen terrain) or to the dwarven culture/gameplay.
Yeah, I guess that is what I like too(still, a bit more racial oriented than environmental).
Pure environmental theme doesn't suit my taste.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 09, 2014 01:33 PM |
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For some reason I feel that the racial theme worked better in Age of Wonders than in heroes. I could be biased though.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 09, 2014 01:37 PM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 13:38, 09 Mar 2014.
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Elvin said:
For some reason I feel that the racial theme worked better in Age of Wonders than in heroes. I could be biased though.
Well, it definitely did because they had a lot more units of the same tier and a lot more units from one faction than in HOMM to begin with, but with different abilities, attributes and purpose.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted March 09, 2014 03:16 PM |
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Elvin said:
Personally I prefer a mix between racial and environmental themed factions. I would like a sylvan with an elf archer and a druid plus woodland creatures but not so much a sylvan with half of its units elven. Similarly I would like a fortress with a dwarven defender, a rune priest and maybe a crossbow scout/engineer but not something like the H5 fortress again. The rest of the units could be tied to the environment they live in(whether subterranean or frozen terrain) or to the dwarven culture/gameplay.
I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that the best compromise that will satisfy most people is to aim for the middle ground like you say: One race for each faction, and then associated creatres. Ratio between racial units and associated creatures can vary between factions, but obviously H5 Fortress went too far in one direction, and really once they came to the idea of a "giant dwarf" someone should have made a reality check to see if people were still actually thinking.
For me it was a major problem in H3 Rampart to have dwarves and elves in same faction because in pretty much every fantasy universe ever created, dwarves and elves just don't mingle very well, so this just seemed wrong. I think it's fine that there's variation between factions - for instance Necropolis, Inferno and Academy being factions specifically not tied to a race but rather to some other characteristics (being undead, being demonic and being ... animated in some sort, respectively) - because trying to force all factions into one mold will just kill diversity. The important part for me is that each faction should have a strong definition and seem coherent.
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SepSpring
Known Hero
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posted March 09, 2014 07:40 PM |
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Quote:
These are associated with the Shanriya nagas who dwell in an icy region. General snow theme I guess.
Do Snow Maidens belong to this sub-faction now?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 09, 2014 09:20 PM |
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Seeing as they appeared in H6, probably not. Didn't particularly like them, too many female humanoids around.
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SepSpring
Known Hero
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posted March 09, 2014 09:26 PM |
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Sanctuary in "Heroes VI" is some kind of a draft faction as it was introduced for the first time. The concept of Shanriya Nagas appeared later. So, I think we can expect them being removed from Hashima Nagas troops.
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SepSpring
Known Hero
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posted March 09, 2014 09:31 PM |
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Something like this turtle is really worthy for Hashima Sanctuary line-up.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted March 10, 2014 10:59 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:05, 10 Mar 2014.
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IMO there's also a third type of theme available between environmental and racial, and that's cultural. Now sure elves in a forest are great, but there are still a few options there, are they wood-elves (mostly green and brown) in a forest, or are they high-elves (mostly green and silver) in a forest? The former would be more likely (IMO) go for more 'foresty' units like bears and wolves, archers and healers, while the latter more likely to go with more 'mythical' units like unicorns and giant eagles, druids and swordsmen. It goes further too, are said elves 'good' or 'evil'? The former would be more up-front with their armies (the worst you'll get is an arrow, but more likely a sword), while the latter would be more sneaky (the best you'll get in an arrow, but more likely a poisoned dagger in the middle of the night).
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 10, 2014 06:50 PM |
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Regarding unit choices based on gameplay, the troll would fit fortress even if dwarves are not supposed to get along well with trolls. For one it fits the Scandinavian theme and secondly it matches the dwarven tanky yet ferocious character. I know that most are used to them being in stronghold but it would make a sense of sorts.
Similarly, I believe that magical, fragile and elegant fits academy. In which case.. a zephyr bird, as a lesser wind spirit.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 10, 2014 06:58 PM |
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Elvin said:
Similarly, I believe that magical, fragile and elegant fits academy. In which case.. a zephyr bird, as a lesser wind spirit.
I always loved H2 Wizard Rocs, I hope they get that kind-of-big-bird in H7.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted March 10, 2014 08:55 PM |
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Elvin said:
Regarding unit choices based on gameplay, the troll would fit fortress even if dwarves are not supposed to get along well with trolls. For one it fits the Scandinavian theme and secondly it matches the dwarven tanky yet ferocious character. I know that most are used to them being in stronghold but it would make a sense of sorts.
Well, Trolls haven't been in Stronghold since Heroes 2, so I wouldn't overestimate that sentiment. Personally, I have advocated Trolls with Fortress a few times in the past. As you say, they fit the theme and they fit the overal strategy.
The "don't getting along" can be easily circumvented as far as I am concerned. Fortress Dwarves, in my opinion, are rather more on the side of neutral than good and are known to have several subjugated animals (Bears and Mammoths). Trolls, in most fantasy lores, are so dumb they barely rank above animals, as far as intelligence goes. Trolls might easily be a species tamed by the Winterwind beastmasters.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted March 10, 2014 11:13 PM |
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Depends on kind of Trolls. You can have Swamp Trolls and combo them with the Fortress from Heroes 3, or you can have Mountain Trolls, probably with Dwarfs or Fortress from Heroes 5, River Trolls getting along with Ocrs/Stronghold, etc.
Hence, in Warhammer universe there are also Chaos Trolls, corrupted by powers of Chaos, that doesn't have normal but Chaos regeneration. So instead of just healing when you wound them, their wounds don't just heal up but grow something random, like another mouth, head, leg, arm, spike or something like that, which is actually something I really like. And of course, they belong to the Forces of Chaos and Demons.
Most of other games pair Trolls together with Orcs/Greenskins though.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 10, 2014 11:16 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
Depends on kind of Trolls. You can have Swamp Trolls and combo them with the Fortress from Heroes 3, or you can have Mountain Trolls, probably with Dwarfs or Fortress from Heroes 5, River Trolls getting along with Ocrs/Stronghold, etc.
^This. Depends a lot of how you make them.
But of course, I doubt here a lot of people want to have a snowtown versions of each creature, with one* is enough 
* Elementals obvious exception
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2014 02:38 PM |
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I'm thinking about a combination of H3 and H5 Fortress when it comes to town theme. I don't really like the H5 Fortress town that much. The big hole + lava was a nice experiment but I think that a woods + snow + mountains would be much better.
Actually, I stopped thinking about H5 Fortress as "dwarves town" for a while now, I think "mountaineers town" would be a better phrase.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted March 11, 2014 02:45 PM |
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Stevie, did you liked the Fortress's artworks on the Ashan Compendium?
Video
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2014 03:02 PM |
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Not really, there's too much emphasis on fire. I could see a fire dragon/ magma dragon but that's it. Valkyries with fire wings and dwarves with fire beards and hair? What's up with that!? The only thing I like so far is the bear and the runepriest.
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