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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Ukraine on the brink of civil war
Thread: Ukraine on the brink of civil war This thread is 70 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 50 ... 53 54 55 56 57 ... 60 70 · «PREV / NEXT»
ihor
ihor


Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
posted July 23, 2014 03:27 PM
Edited by ihor at 15:28, 23 Jul 2014.

The picture is wrong. That place is located in Donetsk region.

Link to Google Maps

Both ukrainian and russian media confirm that separatists shot down these two army planes, nothing ambiguous.

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 23, 2014 03:32 PM

damn, somebody's asleep at the wheel on msn.

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ihor
ihor


Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
posted July 23, 2014 03:46 PM

Russias top 40 lies about Ukraine - Part 1

Russias top 40 lies about Ukraine - Part 2

I would like to see a list of Ukraines top 40 lies about Russia.

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ihor
ihor


Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
posted July 23, 2014 03:56 PM
Edited by ihor at 15:58, 23 Jul 2014.

Russia's lie about Ukraine 41:
Quote:


Lifenews channel published that photo, which Orzie showed us in MH17 thread. That's a lie, which can be confirmed by flightradar data:
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17/#3d1c512


Russia's lie about Ukraine 42:
Russia Today claimed about some spanish dispatcher, who actually does not exist.
http://www.stopfake.org/en/lies-spanish-flight-operations-officer-from-kiev-informed-about-ukrainian-planes-involved-in-boeing-tragedy/


Russia's lie about Ukraine 43:
Quote:


Fake confirmation that Ukraine's army shot down MH17 - with grammar mistakes in Ukrainian language.

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted July 23, 2014 04:48 PM
Edited by orzie at 16:56, 23 Jul 2014.

I would not recommend you to believe so blindly to the Flightradar. Its information tends to be under on-the-fly editing. I personally saw one flight which was later changed to the state it is now. Unfortunately, I did not take a screenshot. So you can keep believing 5th Channel and TCH. And anyway, all screenshots can be edited. I understand this clearly as a pixel artist.

And yeah, I won't post top 100 Ukrainian lies about Russia and about itself, "anti-terrorism" operation circumstances included. Just to save my time.

By the way, that Spanish dispatcher was from Borispol, and he still might not be a fake. I wouldn't see a reason for Twitter to delete his account otherwise. There are a lot of fakes around, and all of them are not deleted. Taking into account that Livejournal and Twitter like deleting and blocking pro-separatists pages (yeah, the freedom of speech as is), this only serves against them.

Yeah, I noticed that strange screenshot about the rules for choosing the dispatchers when employing them. But from what a book was it taken? I can print everything I want, capture it using my phone and post everywhere I want.

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ihor
ihor


Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
posted July 23, 2014 05:00 PM

It is your choice and right to believe more in russian media than flightradar data. Anyway I didn't post that for you.

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted July 23, 2014 05:11 PM
Edited by orzie at 17:25, 23 Jul 2014.

By the way, Ihor, are you going to go to the southeast? Rumors say that the military committees take everyone from 18 to 55 to send them to the battle zone.

Another random Cyrillic shyte

This screenshot is from my personal FB newsfeed, and the person who reposted the post is familiar to me. He is from Kiev and he supports Maidan.

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ihor
ihor


Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
posted July 23, 2014 05:23 PM

I support army with taxes and donations. Rumors are far from truth, neither me nor anybody from my friends got asked to arrive at army recruitment point. There were a couple of people whom I know (including my former Math teacher) who are already there in the South-East for more than month.

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted July 23, 2014 05:27 PM

What about the anti-recruitment protests in Lvov? According to some media, there were women who tried to assault the military committees or something like that, to get back their men from the war zone.

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ihor
ihor


Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
posted July 23, 2014 05:37 PM

What those women wanted actually is rotation to bring their sons(who are there for more than 3 months) home. I wouldn't name the protests "anti-recruitment".

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 24, 2014 08:32 PM

Yatseniuk resigns. Also, Svoboda and Udar leave the parliament. Looks like the aim is to get a decisive "hawk" majority in the upcoming elections and press the military operation in the east (all leavers claim that the remnants from the Yanukovych-time Rada disrupt the work of the parliament in that regard... and other regards).

Also, the communist faction in the parliament got dissolved by the Speaker (former acting president during the interim government) Turchynov, following a president sanction.

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ihor
ihor


Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
posted July 24, 2014 09:15 PM
Edited by ihor at 21:20, 24 Jul 2014.

You probably meant Svoboda and Udar leaving not the parliament, but coalition (formal majority in parliament). There is such formal term in Ukrainian constitution. They can still vote for the laws before new parliament is elected. However formally president will have right to legally dissolve the parliament after 30 days without a coalition. Anyway you got the main idea right - is to reload this current parliament.
Resignation of Yatseniuk is the direct consequence of the fact coalition is broken, but the parliament is still working and for now Yatseniuk is still prime-minister (awaits parliament's approval of PM's resignation).

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted July 29, 2014 08:05 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 20:22, 29 Jul 2014.

Next round of mutual sanctions between Russia and the US/EU

Looks like fruit and chicken imports are getting hacked in Russia.

I'm not sure these sanction wars against Russia are going to have their desired effect (though I understand why they're being done). I feel as though if the Kremlin were to back-off in response to economic sanctions, it would have done it already. Now it's going into multiple phases of attack & counterattack.

Poland's nose needs to get a whiff of the opportunity here. It has some large scale shale oil projects currently in the works and it can start doing some supplying in the relatively near future since its large neighbor is looking unreliable, maybe even in the long-term. If I were Poland I'd be petitioning to allocate extra funds to pick up the pace on those energy development projects right about now, even if it means taking on debt.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."

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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
who am I?
posted July 29, 2014 09:10 PM

Last I heared about the gasport in Świnoujście the italian company building it reported a big delay and demanded more money under the threat of breaking the contract.

...

I don't even how possible they can do.

Poland.
____________
none of my business.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 31, 2014 10:13 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 10:14, 31 Jul 2014.

blizzardboy said:
Poland's nose needs to get a whiff of the opportunity here. It has some large scale shale oil projects currently in the works and it can start doing some supplying in the relatively near future since its large neighbor is looking unreliable, maybe even in the long-term. If I were Poland I'd be petitioning to allocate extra funds to pick up the pace on those energy development projects right about now, even if it means taking on debt.
Shale gas is, fortunately, still quite unpopular in Europe. On the other hand, Poland and particularly its government, by the quite accurate descriptions of one of Poland's own ministers, is a US sex toy in many regards so I can imagine something like this in action.

That said, the Russian gas supplies are not in danger. All the rhetoric aside, neither Russia, nor the main EU countries can afford to endanger their relations to that extent in the near future (to much of the US and UK frustration, it seems). Russia needs the money from that export, quite some EU countries need it to power their economies. All "sanctions" to date are deliberately moderated to the extent of becoming not-so-threatening. This is likely to continue until some actual agreement what to do with Ukraine is reached. At the end of the day, if a few EU countries decide to play tough against Russia despite the lack of willingness of other members, they will threaten the internal stability of the union. The worst part here is that this is a lose-lose game for all participants, except maybe the US.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 31, 2014 03:14 PM

Zenofex said:
... except maybe the US.


I just read a lot of debate about this here in the U.S. (not news) and I fear many things about the whole business. The main one though is why did the dangerous practice start here in the States under the guise of energy independence and now there's the banter of selling overseas. Not to mention we have a oil-based economy. Thus, no part of this adds up.

I mean I'd hate to think we are still only about creating markets and worse yet, doing so at any cost. If this a part of the conflict in Ukraine, you're correct everyone is going to lose but also the American people.

Btw, from what I've read the efforts in Poland are m/l a disaster but you probably already know that.
____________
"Do your own research"

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted August 02, 2014 07:22 AM

@markkur, from a much broader perspective the US is also a losing side, true. But in general, from all parties involved in the Ukrainian crisis, the US occupies the most comfortable position because it effectively uses the EU as a proxy both to press Russia and to absorb the Russian counter-actions. This is why the EU looks like a big collective moron in this situation - there is no scenario in which getting on Russia's bad side is beneficial for the EU countries, quite the opposite. On the other hand, the EU does not need Ukraine as its member at all, at least not economically (there are already more than enough poor cousins in the union), so the whole thing about the Ukrainian "European future" is incredibly stupid when you look at it with a sober mind. Of course Ukraine's eventual EU membership plans have never been and are still not related to the well-being of Ukraine or the EU (somewhat similarly to the membership of the Balkan countries), this is an entirely political design aiming to achieve geopolitical goals. Putting all emotions and propaganda aside, nobody can give you a solid reason why the EU wants to expands towards the Russian borders so badly if you take into account only the "official" EU values and aims. An honest analysis of the strategy of the big players does not survive outside some academic and inner political circles.

One of the strongest roots of the problem is the inability of the European countries to sever some of their ties to the Cold War ages. The EU still largely considers itself as a part of the US domain from strategic point of view. The union failed to create its own defensive organization on multiple occasions and has no real plans to do so in foreseeable future. The dependance on NATO practically means subordination or at least passiveness toward the US' military strategy, no matter if it benefits the European countries or hurts them. It is not just a master-slave relationship of course, the EU members of NATO are not completely powerless but they can't do much on their own either, especially considering that they largely follow a pacifistic doctrine after WW2 (I'm talking about the members that matter, not the NATO "territories" like Bulgaria which lack any character of their own and are just used when needed). All in all, the EU behavior as a collective entity is inconsistent, confused and vulnerable to the influence of external powers which have coherent strategy. This is not likely to change until the EU develops its own structure that can substitute NATO and a clear, mutually agreed upon foreign policy and planning. Frankly I find it more likely to see the EU dissolve before these things happen.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 18, 2014 10:41 AM

One semi-related article shows many things which are fundamentally wrong in EU's approach to the relationships with Russia and with the Balkans, including its perception about them. From economic perspective the EU policy on the Ukrainian crisis is one chaotic hodgepodge with no strategic or even tactical goal whatsoever which actually helps to increase the Russian influence in certain countries in Eastern Europe, especially Serbia. From political perspective it totally fails to convince that it has any other goals than to serve the interests of NATO and the US, even though it actually has such goals (Russia is a potential threat to the EU even without NATO and the US but it was largely a dormant threat without them). At the moment the "common" EU policy about Russia is so confused that it borders panic and the fairly common attempts to put the entire blame on Putin are disconnected from reality. Given a long series of strategic mistakes on international level and the lack of any real European defensive organization which could allow the EU to speak for itself rather than to abide by the will of NATO, it's now in the funny position of an embarrassed girl who tries to look scary by throwing threats hiding behind her daddy's back.

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Orzie
Orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted November 18, 2014 11:04 AM

Quote:
which actually helps to increase the Russian influence in certain countries in Eastern Europe, especially Serbia.

Well, I wonder if there ever is a way to increase the Russian influence in Serbia EVEN MORE. I thought it's already gone to its unbelievable extreme long ago.


Currently NATO tries to pose Russia and Putin The Almighty as an ultimate threat to all mankind. I've found a funny picture long ago, I think it approximately cuts the situation.



The current Western politics is squeezing with double standards and obvious unwillingness to tolerate a possible concurent on the world arena. The ratio rouble-to-dollar and rouble-to-euro is falling drastically, but currently we don't notice much difference. Perhaps only for now. There is no doubt that the ratio is decreased artificially.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 09, 2014 04:48 PM

Ukraine will build a wall along its border with Russia. The project will cost more than 500 million $. Right now this is equally amusing and worrying.

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