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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Ukraine on the brink of civil war
Thread: Ukraine on the brink of civil war This thread is 70 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 50 ... 54 55 56 57 58 ... 60 70 · «PREV / NEXT»
orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 09, 2014 05:02 PM

No more than another way to steal money from the budget, of course. Poor, poor Ukraine. Nothing changed.

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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted December 09, 2014 05:07 PM

Zenofex said:
Ukraine will build a wall along its border with Russia. The project will cost more than 500 million $. Right now this is equally amusing and worrying.




LMAO.


and here in the jolly basketball loving country of mine, all of them chochols are getting VIP medical treatment and other crap, like special scholarships and such. Uncle Sam's orders.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 09, 2014 06:25 PM

Great Wall, obsoleted more than 2000 years ago... what a great idea
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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted December 09, 2014 06:39 PM

well, look on the bright side.

at least the builders will have some work.

while the rest of the world laughs their bums off.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 09, 2014 08:29 PM

The news is anyway dated, the wall is being built for some months now. I don't know whom it's going to stop though - only the war refugees from Ukraine I guess. Hail democracy.

As Russian, I can say for sure that 90% of the money will be left in oligarch pockets. The wall built on the rest will provide a nice protection against stray dogs.

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kayna
kayna


Supreme Hero
posted December 09, 2014 11:06 PM

Hm. I dont know. Sounds obsolete, but maybe it isn't. Being a country between two super powers, perhaps walling one side isn't a bad idea, no matter which side it is they build it?

Aren't Jews in Israel walling themselves too? Isn't it partially working? Maybe there's some benefit to it that I dont understand... Seems to me Russia could blow up a wall easily though, if they wanted to...

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 10, 2014 08:05 AM

From defensive point of view the idea is nothing short of idiotic. Such a wall will provide zero protection against anything related to regular army (comparing the Russian army with a bunch of militants in the Middle East ranges from funny to pathetic) and the best it can be expected to achieve is to reduce the amount of smuggled weapons and fighters for the separatists regions... which will also fail because even now nobody expects that this wall can be built successfully along the border of these regions. If nothing between Russia and Ukraine improves in the next few years, the Kremlin crew should actually allow this wall to be built and make sure that the Ukrainians spend millions for garrisons and whatnot by occasionally sending some evil-looking trooper or decommissioned chopper to scare them (works fine with the Eastern NATO members). This way some day the taxpayers might start asking themselves what the hell they give their money for.

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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted December 10, 2014 08:27 AM

I guess We'll soon build a wall on the border with Kaliningrad, mimicking the khokhols. another big construction project along with the Palace of the Grand Dukes in Vilnius, our national stadium, a new nuclear power plant and several others that been largely discussed overthe past few decades.

At least the palace was completed.

hooray for wild capitalism and panic mongering.


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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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kayna
kayna


Supreme Hero
posted December 10, 2014 05:04 PM

Maybe it's just about tossing a bone in the wrong direction to keep people occupied for a couple of years. It's the scheme the western leaders tend to use when they're all out of schemes with no real idea on wtf to do. Anything to not allow people from uniting, finding what they really have to do for a better life and applying it. Must keep the people poor and crippled with debts.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 24, 2015 07:45 PM

Situation in Eastern Ukraine is rapidly worsening. The fights renewed shortly after New Year, dozens of civilians were killed despite the hollow "ceasefire" and today a missile attack in Mariupol for which the two sides expectedly blame each other promise to make things very dangerous very soon. Of course, Russia blames Ukraine for increasing the tension following clear moves toward mobilisation and everybody else blames Russia for supplying the separatists with weapons and possibly soldiers and not "restraining" them. Not even the slightest sign that someone's willing to back off and do real peace talks.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted January 24, 2015 09:17 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 21:37, 24 Jan 2015.

Not necessarily. It's not at all an uncommon pattern that the figurehead(s) are willing to maintain a ceasefire, but there's a breakdown at a lower level in the hierarchy on one side or the other, which causes a domino effect of resumed fighting. It's especially common in civil conflicts where there's a poorly defined, murky blending of regular army, militia, and partisans, and even within a particular side, there's a shifting, organic network of different channels of communication and different ideas. It's completely possible for both the Russian and Ukrainian top leadership to agree to a ceasefire and for a ceasefire to still fail. It has happened thousands of times before. If executive decisions and diplomatic resolutions actually always translated to their intended effect, human history would be much less bloody than what it is (though still imperfect of course).
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 24, 2015 11:01 PM

Except that none of the two sides is independent and acts on its own in this case.

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somi
somi


Known Hero
posted January 25, 2015 12:15 AM

Been following the conflict for some time. A full offensive is going on right now from rebels. Not sure will they try to take the whole Donetsk and Luhansk areas.

But things don't looks good from intensifying the fighting.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 25, 2015 01:02 AM

Perhaps Russia ultimately needs to be dissolved again?

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somi
somi


Known Hero
posted January 25, 2015 01:18 AM

xerox said:
Perhaps Russia ultimately needs to be dissolved again?


Yea. Thats what should be done to every bigger country. There are people that support exactly that, and think because countries will be small, there will be less aggression on each other. But not so sure it would work.

But the more aggressive countries like Russia and USA should probably be dissolved in smaller ones so they do not make a threat any more to the world. But than other countries will take their place

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 25, 2015 07:30 AM

Yup, let's dissolve the nuclear powers and leave their arsenal in the hands of whoever manages to get it first, that will do the trick.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 25, 2015 07:44 AM

The agents willing to do that needing a bigger power to dissolve the biggest powers is a hinderance enough Zenofex, so no worries there. Crucial change in historical conditions regarding resources, geography, technology, economy dissolves super powers, which usually happens very gradually.  
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted January 25, 2015 07:54 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 08:01, 25 Jan 2015.

Nuclear age requires heavier centralization, not the other way around. There are already a lot of people concerned about the future as developing countries are able to acquire nuclear technology. The Cold War was (relatively) simple, since nukes were limited to the US, UK/France, and then Russia on the other end. Today it's a more complex picture and 50 years from now it will be even more complex. Sudan with nukes. I miss the good old days when the US was the sole nuclear power and idly dangled the lives of the world on its fingertips.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 25, 2015 08:01 AM

The problem is with the power vacuum which people from Dreamland tend to neglect every time when they want some unsuitable country - Great Power or not - to dissolve or to lose its effective government. Right now not even the US wants Russia to dissolve because that would create a global security problem of epic proportions. And of course you are right, the conditions aren't good for something like that to happen overnight, especially given that Russia is actually internally consolidated now. But nevertheless, it's never a good idea to take such things lightly, like this some fairy-tale where the Good wins in the end and everybody lived happily ever after.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted January 25, 2015 08:12 AM
Edited by artu at 08:17, 25 Jan 2015.

I think the magnitude of destruction nuclear power has is usually an enough motivation not to use them when more than one side have them anyway. I mean, I remember reading something like, in the 60's, US has the power to wipe out the world 17 times over and USSR has the power to do the same thing 2 or 3 times... But really, what's the difference? It's not like having 2000 cavalry against 6000, there is only one World to wipe out.

In distant future, I think unification awaits us, anyway, not dissolvement: Related thread.
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