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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 22, 2015 12:16 AM |
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I agree. Now they're completely different, even normal, people.
My point was just that the argument was countered by that human flocks display herd mentality. Also I imagine one of the easiest common enemies to bring people together are those who isolates themselves and/or are successful.
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Living time backwards
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 22, 2015 05:51 AM |
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Edited by orzie at 05:51, 22 Mar 2015.
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xerox said:
So it's okay to just "despose" of democratically elected city administrations...? In a democracy, there's this thing called "elections" for that.
There is also a thing called "impeachment" in your beloved democracy. Say this to Maidan.
xerox said:
Russia and the separatists are the aggressors here. They have the primary responsibility for civilians being trapped with active battles all around them.
Dem arguments. 
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 22, 2015 07:04 AM |
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Quote:
So it's okay to just "despose" of democratically elected city administrations...?
Let's also apply that to Yanukovych's government, Captain. 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 22, 2015 01:08 PM |
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Difference is, Euromaidan protesters didn't turn Kiev into a war zone. Violence started when the government started attacking the protesters. The protesters then legitimately retaliated and finally, Yanukovichs government was desposed of by parliament.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted March 22, 2015 01:18 PM |
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You're forgetting the element of pression by the protesters, and there were also episodes of violence.
People dismiss the Crimean referendum because there were Russian troops in the region influencing the vote, so, what could the parliament do when they had a massive crowd at their doors and, let's not forget, with some elements ready for violence?
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 22, 2015 01:56 PM |
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The pressure only started after the government started attacking protesters who expressed their democratic rights.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted March 22, 2015 02:39 PM |
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People stating their political opinions based on their sense of belonging or whatever benefits them the most rather than seeking the truth. Nothing new here move along.
Seeking the truth from the opposite side of the earth is pointless anyways.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 22, 2015 03:06 PM |
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xerox said:
Difference is, Euromaidan protesters didn't turn Kiev into a war zone. Violence started when the government started attacking the protesters. The protesters then legitimately retaliated and finally, Yanukovichs government was desposed of by parliament.
The peaceful protesters who got attacked by the government looked like this. The peaceful demonstrations had the following results (the photos show just your usual democratic protest, nothing war zone-like). And let's not forget this small thing - for some reason the peaceful protesters became even more violent after that, almost as if someone didn't want the violence to end. But I suppose the mind of the Swedish libertarians is just too innocent for things like that so here is a cheerful image for you:
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 22, 2015 03:11 PM |
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Edited by orzie at 15:14, 22 Mar 2015.
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Thing is, the old government was too much democratic. If it was more radical towards the protesters, there would be no coup, and no war as consequence. People are starting to allow themselves too much with those Molotov cocktails. It's not a weapon of democracy. It's a weapon of random terror.
And the democratic West bashing the old government after. What a surprise.
I must remind that there were no dead people and 8 grivnas for a dollar in the times of yanukovitch.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted March 22, 2015 03:23 PM |
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Edited by Neraus at 15:23, 22 Mar 2015.
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In my opinion, this is the worst time possible for a war, or at least for me in Italy.
Considering that if the EU goes to war against Russia our gas supplies will get cut by a large amount, now, if you also add that nobody will fight ISIS, they will also cut our supplies in Libya and Tunisia, so we're pretty doomed here...
And even if there were no problems with gas I'd say, why do we still need to be hostile? The only thing I see being done during all of this farce was condemning Russia and Putin, sanctioning them and covertly helping Ukraine, all of this because they don't like the idea of Ukraine out of the EU apparently, I mean, the great illuminated west helped a far-right wing party in gaining power all the while condemning said parties in our countries.
From my point of view this pointless debacle is what helped the rise of ultra-nationalist groups.
But, read this like an old man's rant, it's been a long time since I actually cared about the Ukranian civil war so my informations may be pretty outdated...
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 22, 2015 04:05 PM |
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Edited by artu at 16:09, 22 Mar 2015.
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They are building a new pipeline that goes straight from Turkey to Europe, which will be functional in 2018.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 22, 2015 04:20 PM |
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Ah... that. That pipeline is very nice. It was supposed to go through Bulgaria. Admittedly the contracts for its construction were not very clear and there were suspicions of corruption in favour of Russia but ultimately it was cancelled following Brussels' orders to our government. No signs that anyone's willing to compensate us for that.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 22, 2015 04:52 PM |
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Well, then it got the green light again somehow because I watched the news about how the construction will be completed in 2018 only like two days ago.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted March 22, 2015 04:54 PM |
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Never heard of that, at least a little relief after these last days...
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 22, 2015 05:02 PM |
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I was talking about South Stream. The Russian government said that they're stopping the project due to lack of "interest" from EU side, although no official notes have arrived yet. The constructions were about to start when the thing was frozen by Brussels due to suspected irregularities with the choice of the contractor for implementation on Bulgarian side, in reality it was just used as an addition to the sanctions and as an investment opportunity it is lost to us, including any chances to renegotiate the grey areas of the contract.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted March 22, 2015 05:21 PM |
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The best of all scenarios would be the one where we could stop using the snowgas altogether
Sadly as always, political shortsightedness has no plans for it.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 22, 2015 05:58 PM |
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Zenofex said:
xerox said:
Difference is, Euromaidan protesters didn't turn Kiev into a war zone. Violence started when the government started attacking the protesters. The protesters then legitimately retaliated and finally, Yanukovichs government was desposed of by parliament.
The peaceful protesters who got attacked by the government looked like this. The peaceful demonstrations had the following results (the photos show just your usual democratic protest, nothing war zone-like). And let's not forget this small thing - for some reason the peaceful protesters became even more violent after that, almost as if someone didn't want the violence to end. But I suppose the mind of the Swedish libertarians is just too innocent for things like that so here is a cheerful image for you:
Those videos are from 2014 yet the protests started in november 2013, with the government attack provoking the violence happening on the 30th of november. Before that, protests were largely peaceful. Can you atleast try spreading correct information instead of reinforcing Putin's propaganda...?
Neraus said:
In my opinion, this is the worst time possible for a war, or at least for me in Italy.
Considering that if the EU goes to war against Russia our gas supplies will get cut by a large amount, now, if you also add that nobody will fight ISIS, they will also cut our supplies in Libya and Tunisia, so we're pretty doomed here...
And even if there were no problems with gas I'd say, why do we still need to be hostile? The only thing I see being done during all of this farce was condemning Russia and Putin, sanctioning them and covertly helping Ukraine, all of this because they don't like the idea of Ukraine out of the EU apparently, I mean, the great illuminated west helped a far-right wing party in gaining power all the while condemning said parties in our countries.
Well, russian gas supplies being cut off is why we need to get a EU energy union and energy independence from Russia. Not more pipe lines to Russia or getting rid off nuclear power like Germany did it (which got them even more hooked up on Russian gas). I've already explained by position on why it's important to harshly condemn Russia but unsurprisingly, the Kreml supports the rising Nationalist parties in Europe that want to get rid off the EU.
orzie said:
Thing is, the old government was too much democratic. If it was more radical towards the protesters, there would be no coup, and no war as consequence. People are starting to allow themselves too much with those Molotov cocktails. It's not a weapon of democracy. It's a weapon of random terror.
"Too much democracy",
This pretty much sums up the position of Putin's minions. /thread
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 22, 2015 07:34 PM |
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Quote:
Those videos are from 2014 yet the protests started in november 2013, with the government attack provoking the violence happening on the 30th of november. Before that, protests were largely peaceful. Can you atleast try spreading correct information instead of reinforcing Putin's propaganda...?
I think I'm spreading quite correct information, thank you. You on the other hand are pulling nonsense out of your ass where it seems to be quite abundant, so far we are yet to see something else from you. You might show some other source for a change.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 22, 2015 07:53 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 19:54, 22 Mar 2015.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Euromaidan#21.E2.80.9329_November_2013 reference 7 to 46.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 22, 2015 08:01 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:01, 22 Mar 2015.
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I'm not talking about that but about the infantile "they started first" reasoning of yours.
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This thread is pages long: 
