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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted February 13, 2021 08:13 PM |
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I don't really see what's the issue in doing that, if it's supposed to be an expansion mod and it's been left behind (which is the literal "banner" for its popular platform ever since its conception), even if just graphically, for half of its age (well, it was behind the H3 graphical standards ever since it came out to begin with, but people didn't have any other option when it came to mods/platforms back then).
And I wouldn't call it "picking on", it's more like a reminder that WoG needs an update if it's to attract the more, ah, "picky" people, like HotA players, for example (which the are the big majority when it comes to mod players). And I suppose it's a serious issue if someone like that modder comes and tells you this too (and it's not necessarily out of ill intent either).
Edit: I know its options can be disabled and that you wanna remove it in ERA 3. It's probably too late to update WoG anyway, the damage's been done. Or maybe not, can't know for sure without trying it. Just a graphical overhaul could do wonders.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 13, 2021 08:33 PM |
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Is not because WoG authors don't want better graphics, but because there wasn't any Hota level designer enough motivated or interested to give a hand. So case is closed, until one comes and proposes something. We have to focus on WoG strengths, not weaknesses when there is no solution available.
Maybe from Polish community and its great modders? Probably they improved since Grove and its trapezoid creatures which hurt eyes (sorry, something here started me). Yet I consulted their database regularly and I didn't see any good quality creature which would fit.
So, is like ordering to Stephen Hawking to walk, otherwise you won't listen to him. Pointless.
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted February 13, 2021 08:35 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
I don't really see what's the issue in doing that, if it's supposed to be an expansion mod and it's been left behind (which is the literal "banner" for its popular platform ever since its conception), even if just graphically, for half of its age (well, it was behind the H3 graphical standards ever since it came out to begin with, but people didn't have any other option when it came to mods/platforms back then).
And I wouldn't call it "picking on", it's more like a reminder that WoG needs an update if it's to attract the more, ah, "picky" people, like HotA players, for example (which the are the big majority when it comes to mod players). And I suppose it's a serious issue if someone like that modder comes and tells you this too (and it's not necessarily out of ill intent either).
Edit: I know its options can be disabled and that you wanna remove it in ERA 3. It's probably too late to update WoG anyway, the damage's been done. Or maybe not, can't know for sure without trying it. Just a graphical overhaul could do wonders.
You can come here and express your opinion I have no problem with it. He even has made some fair points and elaborated them, but you can express your opinion without this usual disparagement of other modders and their work, especially if he is creating content himself.
All other points to this discussion have already been said by Sal, there's nothing more to add.
So one last question, who is Treth and where can I take a look at his work? (just out of curiosity)
@Strigo, oh you deleted your comment.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted February 13, 2021 08:37 PM |
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Please, the current shape of Grove town is history (I think pretty much everyone can agree, even the creators). Ever heard of Tides of War? By MDT? The quality of its creature are indeed HotA standard, as well as the dwellings and perhaps the other objects too (sorry for not being able to "review" those as well, VCMI is just that bothersome to play or make it work)
Quote:
Yet I consulted their database regularly and I didn't see any good quality creature which would fit.
I will suppose this doesn't mean taking those creatures' graphics, and just that their standards are low. In which case I point at the beginning of this post.
@PerryR
I think this answer ^ fits your post too.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Strigo
Hired Hero
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posted February 13, 2021 08:38 PM |
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Quote:
@Strigo, oh you deleted your comment.
what comment? kekw
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 13, 2021 08:44 PM |
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FirePaladin said:
Please, the current shape of Grove town is history. Ever heard of Tides of War? By MDT?
Really? How many games have you correctly played and finished using that mod? Frankly.
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted February 13, 2021 08:45 PM |
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I know how to use def tool and there are youtube videos too. Besides, I ported them (dwellings and creatures) outside of VCMI as well.
Edit: I should bring up that I did bother making a map and building all the dwellings so I can see how the town screens look.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 13, 2021 08:51 PM |
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You didn't answer to my question, lets rephrase it in a more general way: how many people finished a full decent game of Heroes using that mod?
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted February 13, 2021 08:55 PM |
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If what you're saying is that ToW is so bad nobody plays it, then that's not true. The fact that VCMI is so crappy is enough to stop pretty much anyone from playing it. Dang, there are countless of complaints that VCMI does not work, etc. It also doesn't feel like H3 either, and the AI is pure garbage. Isn't this enough to stop anyone from playing it, no matter what mods it has?
Edit: VCMI contains HotA too, to add to the "platform's" (well, more like remake) so bad state that nobody plays it and uses it only as content preview. I don't know what the situation was 5 years ago, but that's how it is nowadays. If anything, it's just a mobile H3 version for the few people who bother playing it on phone.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted February 13, 2021 08:56 PM |
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wog bla bla, has historical value and all that
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 13, 2021 08:58 PM |
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No, I didn't say is bad. I say it doesn't have solid scripting support to be playable, as is done on Vcmi - an unfinished platform.
See my point? You bicker about 8th level creatures graphics in WoG, but you will give me as example a mod which lacks the exact thing WoG excels in, playability and solidity. A bit hypocrite maybe? 
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted February 13, 2021 09:01 PM |
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Oh God, dude. Sorry, I don't mean to be offensive at all, but I just pointed out a mod's graphical and content quality, regardless of its playability. You asked what wonders the Polish modders did in those regards (or who else has HotA's standards). I answered. It has little to do with its playability, again.
Dang, when did I enter a debate about WoG mechanics (capabilities too?) or anything of sorts? And it's not the modders' (well, graphic artists') fault that VCMI is trash either.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 13, 2021 09:12 PM |
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It goes both ways, "dude".
Why bad graphics but fully playable and with strong script support can be trashed along with WoG creators being mocked but when it comes to good graphics but bad implementation and no script support - so unplayable, we must hold our breath?
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted February 13, 2021 09:15 PM |
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Quote:
Maybe from Polish community and its great modders? Probably they improved since Grove and its trapezoid creatures which hurt eyes (sorry, something here started me). Yet I consulted their database regularly and I didn't see any good quality creature which would fit.
This is literally the only thing I answered to. I just showed proof of the existence pf people (including Treth) outside of HotA who have the same standards as HotA. Nothing else. Did this paragraph I quoted imply anything about playability? No.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 13, 2021 09:23 PM |
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And that isn't true. The foremost strength of Hota is playability. Nobody would even look at their graphics if a game couldn't be played. So no, their standards are not Hota's ones, only their graphics standards. A detail.
Look, WoG is a bunch of programmers. You ask them to provide great graphical skill, but you find thousands of excuses when same logic is applied to graphic designers.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 13, 2021 09:27 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
wog bla bla, has historical value and all that
Bouuu, that's all? Ten years we didn't hear from you, how you doing man?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted February 13, 2021 09:29 PM |
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I was always here, can't resist some hc drama, can you?
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted February 13, 2021 09:32 PM |
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You know, there are thousands of people. On Discord. Reddit. Everywhere. What do they say? HotA plays just like a new expansion, and its graphics seem to be made by NWC. But nobody ever forgets to mention that.... #graphicsmatter. It adds lots of flavor to the game and attracts thousands of new players to HotA. It isn't just a detail. It's a selling point. A critical detail when it comes to attracting people. Ever wonder why HotA became so popular, regardless of how popular WoG was? Surely it was just the fact that it changed nearly 0 gameplay, and not because it added high quality content, including a new town, heroes, etc.
About playability, WoG is playable too. VCMI is for showcasing stuff.
About WoG's quality in terms of graphics. I wasn't blaming the programmers. I wasn't really blaming anyone. I'm just surprised that 15+ years have passed without anyone even trying to raise WoG's graphical quality (well, there is that one guy who does that, but he can't create creatures yet afaIk).
And what excuses did I find regarding graphic creators? The guys from MDT did their job at HotA levels. Is there anything else about it? Should they have programmed too? Maybe reverse-engineer H3? Start learning ERM and publish their mod after 2 years (with indulgence; they are people with a life after all; not saying anyone here doesn't though) of no free time because they tried adding the full mod?
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 14, 2021 12:04 AM |
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted February 14, 2021 12:05 AM |
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Agreed. I'd better actually return to making graphics instead. I've yet to finish 2 objects for VMaiko (and much more).
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....
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This thread is pages long: 
