Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Heroes Universe - Development
Thread: Heroes Universe - Development This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted May 14, 2014 05:46 PM

Stevie said:
No one here knows for sure WO. Just vote what you incline to think. Can't change the poll now. I personally saw an improvement in the sense of communication and that gave me a bit of hope.


I, too, see that improvement, and I expect that Heroes VII would be less inclined too start with a stupid outset. But I am not inclined to vote either way just yet. Sorry.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 14, 2014 05:49 PM

Cautiously optimistic as ever. Good.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted May 14, 2014 07:57 PM

Emphasis on the cautious.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted May 15, 2014 01:03 AM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 21:14, 20 May 2014.

Well, here goes my Masterpost (otherwise Stevie would kill me)


I - What are your thoughts on how the franchise has been managed so far?

I will focus only on Ubisoft, becuase that's what matters for the future. The overall feeling I get...isn't great. I wasn't (aware) when H5 came out, but from the stories I've heard about saveheroes.org, heroes flying on the map an such it seems it was a buggy, delayed release...and H6 followed the same steps. TotE actually reached a level where it could challenge H3 (in my opinion, H3 is very balanced with no weak points, while H5 was heavily disbalanced - far superior skill system but very bad optimization, for example), but I'm not sure if Nival or Ubisoft should be to 'blame'.
H6 was just a mess. From not agreeing with Nival so the game had to be rushed, yet at the same time it suffered from three delays, the first patch took 2 months to be delivered (at the same time game servers were down many times), then the silence before Limbic took the patching process (again, there were delays on the patches), new patches created new bugs and crashes (black screen -.-)...god, it was like an horror movie.
So, while I think Ubisoft aren't to blame of everything that went bad, they are still responsible of quite a lot of things - resource reduction or choosing the developer and how much time are given, for exmaple. And I feel they have to improve on this regard if a good HoMM is to happen.


II - Can you make a top of the biggest mistakes the devs have ever made (no number limit)?

- Rushing vanillas releases which turned out into bugfests.
- NOT giving Map Editor enough credit. Maps are what keep the communities alive, and I think the (hardcore) fans would be very grateful if a good Map Editor was to happen.
- Completely removing randomness (H6)
- Towns Conversion effectively killing any diversity in hero's armies.
- Resource reduction. I could accept a moderate resource reduction (like gold, 2 and 2), but having 2 common resources and only one rare made no sense. And it didn't seem to work either so...
- Setting 9 as a hard faction-cap (and no Lizards/swamp fortress town)
- streamlining the adventure map. On some H6 screenshoots, I could see beautiful landscapes yet at the same time a vast desert of adv. map locations. And I would swear the game it's about playing, duh.
- not including proper town screens in vanilla version.
- Lack of modding support (H6).


III - What about top best decisions (again, no number limit)?

- Skillwheel is alone the best improvement from Ubisoft titles. It still can be improved, and I feel it should (in a future release).
- Caravans, help a lot.
- Faction unique gameplay. About racials, they are a good addition, but sometimes I feel they restrict the gameplay (of each faction) too much
- Simultaneous Turns. Great idea to speed up standard multiplayer games. Needs to return in future installments of the series.
- Rebooting M&M RPG series! Ashan has received a lot of criticism, but I feel it's a problem of repetitiveness (First game: eclipse into demon invasion, second game: eclipse into demon invansion, hell yeah), M&M games and similar gives another point of view of the world, not necessarily saving the world once again. Of course, storytelling and the story itself are also important. H5 was just bad
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 15, 2014 03:30 PM

Ty for your masterpost Stormy.

Storm-Giant said:

Quote:
• If there would be a new Heroes game, one thing that would remain for sure is the engine. Area control also proved to be as a good innovation to the Heroes series, and Ubi felt the resource reduction was an OK choice.

Though that info is from 2 years ago and they might have changed their minds, who knows


Elvin, maybe you know something? Thoughts on this? I don't want another H6. They should work on another code that won't prove to be a biatch when changes and tweaking are needed. Importing stuff from H6 seems to me to be a mistake, and the franchise cannot afford another disaster. My 2 cents.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 15, 2014 04:40 PM

Engine and code are two separate things as far as I know. Even if ubi reuses the engine, the game would not have to look like H6 nor would it share its code. But I believe they have learnt their lesson regarding the implementation of new features, assets or balance changes. It was a major issue throughout H6 and I think everyone agrees that this cannot happen again. Heavily discussed issue..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted May 15, 2014 05:06 PM

Elvin said:
Heavily discussed issue..

Good to hear
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
posted May 15, 2014 06:49 PM

For Heroes VII I would see story after DM, all Ashan Races, H3 and H5 town economy and town managing, unique racial skills and skillwheel, return mage guilds, H3/H6 Battle System, Town conversion(good feature of H6), maybe return of iconic characters in MM Series.


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 18, 2014 11:31 PM

Actually I think town conversion was one of the biggest mistakes in H6. As someone mentioned it simply killed diversity and made the game even more boring. I don't know for sure but I guess it even caused balance issues.

I don't know for external dwellings tho. But either way, a building that produces angels one day, then fate weavers the next?! I don't like that.

And just imagine it, how in the world do you change an entire building? Like, since when do buildings morph?! It's doesn't feel right!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted May 18, 2014 11:33 PM

Stevie said:
And just imagine it, how in the world do you change an entire building? Like, since when do buildings morph?! It's doesn't feel right!

A wizard did it!
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted May 19, 2014 03:19 AM

I'm okay with town conversion as long as it costs a lot, like a days for the basic town, plus a day for every two buildings that have to be converted/destroyed, so for example a town with a fort, marketplace, tavern, portal and two dwellings would cost four days to convert, and at the end you'd still need an extra two days to get back those two dwellings, which were destroyed, rather than converted. This would make town conversion a strategic decision, rather than a no-brainer.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted May 19, 2014 11:20 AM

As I've said in my greater post, I thought that townconversion was one of the best improvements made in Heroes VI. Being a monofaction player by default, townconversion allowed me to deal with the towns of differing factions that otherwise would've just sat there doing nothing, because I don't like mixing troops.

That being said, I can find myself in the argument Matt makes, and others have made before him,that conversion should be a choice. In Heroes VI conversion was too cheap to do anything but convert and not converting and mixing troops would likely be harmfull to the overall effort in the long run.
Whether Matts suggestion is balanced, I have my doubts, but this is something is very difficult to figure out here with hypothetical situations.
Overall conversion should be equally viable as mixing troops.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 11:38 AM
Edited by Stevie at 11:38, 19 May 2014.

WO the concept of building transformation is horrendous!! How do Haven bricks morph into Necro ones? So you can make buildings change shape but you can't morph your creatures? Or win battles by morphing enemy troops into goo?!

No. I am totally opposed to that.

I had no problem with the WoG style of deconstructing a town to then be able to reconstruct it aligned to your faction. That makes more sense! It's labor, not hocus pocus everywhere. It doesn't stretch my imagination.

You get me?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted May 19, 2014 02:19 PM

Stevie said:
Or win battles by morphing enemy troops into goo?!

rofl
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted May 19, 2014 02:58 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 20:41, 19 May 2014.

Allow me to respond to Stevie in a few hours time when I get back from work.


____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted May 19, 2014 08:42 PM

OK, allow me to respond on Stevie's issue with the building changes during conversion. Stevie, you take the art-assets too literally. And here is why it is the way it is.
I assume it is a cop-out. Admittedly my evidence on this is thin and mostly my own speculation, but hear me out on this.

Has anyone ever noticed that the town keeps its original name? It could have just as easily changed and generated a free name of the faction it changes in. Why is that ? I have a theory.

The theory is this. The idea behind it is town occupation. Say a Stronghold army conquers a Haven town. What happens, do they burn everything to the ground and ask the Gods to conjure up a new town, cause that what it looks like and why Stevie, among others, objects to it. I think this is not the intention. The thought that is meant to be conveyed is that the Orcs kick the Humans out and occupy Wallstreet the town. They leave the useful buildings standing, like town halls and forts and marketplaces and such. They only tear down the buildings that are in the way of them putting the town to use in their own war-effort(i.e. the dwellings and the factional uniques). It's a war, they don't have the time to start from scratch, they take what they can use and only bother to (re)build what they need. This is, what I think, is the idea behind town conversion. And if it isn't, it should be.

Now why then do we get a short animation and a whole new factional town when towns are converted? $$$$!
The problem with this idea, to represent it visually is that, in Heroes VI, you would have needed a total of 36 townscreens and mapobjects to represent it visually. Namely: an orginal Haven town, a Haven town occupied by Stronghold, a Haven town occupied by Necropolis, a Haven town occupied by Inferno... and repeat that until you have a version of every faction being occupied by every faction.
To make all that art, as awesome as it would be, would have required a whole lot more effort and expenses to make and put in. It's a whole lot more easy to make a crappy little animation of towns magically appearing and having the town switch in-game.
Why did the dwellings not get torn down during the conversion, if this was the idea behind it? (We don't know if this was the case but let's give them the benefit of the doubt here and say that this was the original intention)It was probably a cop-out as well. Heroes VI was under a lot of pressure to get put out, even before beta and it was likely easier to make things switch over entirely due to all manner of constraints.

Do you get my drift?
I hope this was the original intention, and as said, if not it should be in the future with regards to town-conversion. Even though I could understand that we cannot make y times y amounts of visual representations, with y being the total number of factions in game.

[Disclaimer, this post is in now way endorsing the occupy movement. It was a joke, I thought funny at the time.]
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 19, 2014 09:36 PM

Conversion is a reasonable feature and one that can balance out the random town factor in certain maps, especially random maps. That said.. It takes with it a part of heroes' charm: When you capture a new town you have to defend it with its own units and you cannot reinforce your hero army without mixing troops. And you will likely want to let them stay in the garrison under a secondary hero. Same goes with external dwellings, I always loved getting non-faction units from a dwelling I just conquered. And I mean some actual reinforcements, not a handful of creatures like in H6. Getting 7 hunters from a hunting lodge in H5 was awesome regardless of your main faction. Being able to always convert the dwelling is handy but.. not nearly as fun for me. More balanced certainly but that can also be achieved through map making(set nearby dwellings to faction of your choice, whether native or not) or some decent RMG scripts/options. So for me this is a feature of personal taste..

As such I would not mind if it was an optional feature to turn on or off when starting a map. I would also like the dwellings to accumulate troops every week so that they can be comparable to the growth of your town's units. That way you would not shun non-native dwellings just because the dwelling's unit strength is negligible compared to what your town produces. In fact it would help people try different combos, adding to the game's replayability. And finally.. I would like the dwellings to produce one type of unit like in the past. In H6 a core dwelling would produce all cores but give you an insignificant amount of each. That's too uniform for my taste but also unsatisfactory. Who cares about 2 vampires, 2 lamasu and 1 lich? I'd rather get 4 vampires or liches.. Something with an impact rather than pizza topping if you get my meaning.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted May 19, 2014 09:51 PM

Elvin said:
I would also like the dwellings to accumulate troops every week so that they can be comparable to the growth of your town's units. That way you would not shun non-native dwellings just because the dwelling's unit strength is negligible compared to what your town produces. In fact it would help people try different combos, adding to the game's replayability. And finally.. I would like the dwellings to produce one type of unit like in the past. In H6 a core dwelling would produce all cores but give you an insignificant amount of each. That's too uniform for my taste but also unsatisfactory. Who cares about 2 vampires, 2 lamasu and 1 lich? I'd rather get 4 vampires or liches.. Something with an impact rather than pizza topping if you get my meaning.

I agree on this, and I'd also love a turn on/off system.

At minimum should be a choice and not a non-brainer option like in H6. Hopefully Ubi will listen this time...
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
flonembourg
flonembourg


Known Hero
posted May 20, 2014 09:04 PM
Edited by flonembourg at 21:08, 20 May 2014.

I - What are your thoughts on how the franchise has been managed so far?

Difficult to say but if you ask me i'll say H5 tote is pretty good and H6 is just boring (cool graphics with no replayability)


II - Can you make a top of the biggest mistakes the devs have ever made (no number limit)?

They simply didn't listen the "community" (the fanbase) between heroes 5 and heroes 6.
But another big mistake that nobody mention is the impossibility to mod H6, no tools for modding heroes 6 is just horrible.

III - What about top best decisions (again, no number limit)?

Just H5 tote a good expansion with goods ideas and 8 factions.



I think if you have the graphics of heroes 6 and the mechanics of H5 (mage guild, skillwheel, alt upgrade, 8 factions,ressources, RTMG maps...) but you conserve the initiative system of H6 and the possibility to mod it(pretty good for me).
H6 would have been a good game!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted May 20, 2014 09:12 PM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 21:13, 20 May 2014.

(Lack of) Modding support, how could I forgotten that! *Stops dish washing to edit his masterpost*
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0639 seconds