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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Profiteering
Thread: Profiteering This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 07:21 PM

I know, I'm probably regretting this, but just out of curiosity:

if peddling food for sexual favors, is there a difference, whether the victim OFFERS them (lacking money), the seller accepting the alternative currency, or whether the seller demands the alternative currency, not selling for anything except sexual favors as currency?

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 07:23 PM
Edited by mvassilev at 19:24, 19 May 2014.

Bak:
It seems strange, but there'd be nothing wrong with keeping the food for yourself in a disaster situation. If someone tries to take it for you by force, they're no different from a common burglar or thief. With that established, if I want to give the food away in exchange for something (something that would otherwise be legal, like having sex), that's my choice.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted May 19, 2014 07:23 PM

I'm with mvass on selling stuff for sex. Nothing wrong with that.
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Aron
Aron


Known Hero
posted May 19, 2014 07:27 PM
Edited by Aron at 19:30, 19 May 2014.

Let me put it straight up guys. I'm sure we could take a beer or something but unless you were my friends and If knew your opinions I'd have no problem murdering you to feed myself and any associate based on your complete lack of ethics.

We aren't even talking about selling stuff for sex. We are talking about sexual exploitation at the time of a crisis.


Seriously. I wouldn't hesitate to kill you.

The only problem is that your principles of "non-aggression" probably would be thrown out of the window at the first sign of personal trouble and then you'd probably end up killing me before I found out what type of person you are.


Either that or you guys are immature kids who haven't experienced much in terms of suffering or lack of anything like Kip said. Partly why most old religions have fasting and other types of volountary suffering as a way to teach people about it.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted May 19, 2014 07:33 PM

Money is just a means of a trade, there is no sacred in it. Direct services are just as viable trade, leaving out the money doesn't change things in any meaningful way.

That said, I'd be very happy to be able to buy food with just sex. I'd be having much more resources to my hobbies. You should ditch your limited thinking, sex isn't sacred either, people do it for fun.
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Aron
Aron


Known Hero
posted May 19, 2014 07:53 PM

snow you can't be this dumb? It's going beyond sociopathy. I hope you're trolling for your own sake.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 07:55 PM
Edited by mvassilev at 19:57, 19 May 2014.

Aron said:
We aren't even talking about selling stuff for sex. We are talking about sexual exploitation at the time of a crisis.
"Exploitation" just means an exchange you disapprove of that wouldn't be made in different conditions.

Edit: I agree with Joonas. If he's a sociopath, then so am I.
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 08:01 PM

there are some differences with money. for example, money implies that there is a third party taking part (indirectly) in the transaction, that is to say, the one who provides the money (the bank), unless you can print your own money. the bank doesn't give money away for free, and you can be pretty sure its interests radically differ from the interests of victims of a flood.

also, whereas money is a mean of trading, it can be argueed that it actually prevents trades more than it helps it, since the amount of money in circulation (and the speed of circulation) determine the amount of trades we will be able to do, and so money can prevent trades that otherwise would have been possible.

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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted May 19, 2014 08:03 PM

Fauch's right about the money. It's also a whole lot easier to tax money than services, which is why the current time bank fad has some complications.
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Aron
Aron


Known Hero
posted May 19, 2014 08:04 PM
Edited by Aron at 20:17, 19 May 2014.

I have no idea, you guys just sound retarded. Xer has some snow together at least.

edit: I'll explain myself once more but I doubt it helps. The problem here is not the sale of sex. It is sexual exploitation which creates a servile dependence on that person and potentially forces a person to do something they really would not want.

It is exploitation because as you said it would not happen otherwise. The fact that you do not get that you're abusing a person who is desperate here is not more worrying than your willingness to do it. But it is what makes you retarded.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 08:35 PM

If they didn't want it, they wouldn't consent to it.
Let me ask you this - what's better, letting them exchange sex for food, or banning the exchange even though it would feed someone? Are you going to say, "Sorry, this would make both of you better off, but I'm banning it because it makes me feel uncomfortable."?
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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
posted May 19, 2014 08:35 PM

I can't believe you would accept sex as payment, that I call prostitution, in reverse, but it's still an exchange of goods.

But of course in an apocalyptic scenario ethics are useless, so not only accepting sex as payment will be the norm but also slavery and submission.

At that point if you are on the top you can scream:
ALL SUBMIT TO THE ALMIGHTY WILL OF THE WARLORD!

But that's an hypotetical scenario, in a more likely one after the crisis passes you would be prosecuted if you did those things.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 08:37 PM

Neraus said:
I can't believe you would accept sex as payment, that I call prostitution, in reverse, but it's still an exchange of goods.
Yes, it's prostitution. So what?
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 08:44 PM

just as with prostitution, a lot of transactions imply exploitation, and people see nothing wrong with them. sometimes I wonder if the problem is about exploitation, or about sex?

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 09:05 PM

Sorry, it's NOT prostitution, that's why I asked the question, no one seems to be interested in.

Prostitution is OFFERING the service of sex in exchange for something else. A prostitute is a SELLER of a service - ideally the selling is VOLUNTARY. Buyers can buy or not, thank you very much.

However, OFFERING something for someone in need, demanding an UNUSUAL payment - be it a service like sex, significantly more money or, say, the donation of a kidney, is EXTORTION or at least ASSAULT, because it's taking advantage of some dire straits: the deal is not VOLUNTARY. (It's basically comparable with a monopoly situation.)

I'm also sick of the libertarian bs that's not tiring to justify the most ridiculous stuff.
Imagine an old person fell down - no one in the immediate vicinity except you. Of course you could help her up - but for free? Why pass up a good business opportunity? So you say: I can help you up, but I think my service is worth a tenner...

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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
posted May 19, 2014 09:10 PM

Well... I condemn the fact that it's exploitation, and also hedonism.
But well, you can't expect people to be ok with that, especially if you say this to some particular groups.

Now, beacuse I have to admit that I am ignorant when it comes to economics I kindly ask of you  what other transaction has an immediate effect of exploiting the consumer.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 09:13 PM

well, obvious, selling your work for a salary for exemple.

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted May 19, 2014 09:16 PM

mvassilev said:
Once they stop receiving aid from the state, these "evil corporations" will cease to be so evil

How probable do you see the scenario of state stopping the aid to them?
I ask because I have not followed much the discussions of the ways to stop the problem "too big to let it go bankrupt".
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Neraus
Neraus


Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
posted May 19, 2014 09:33 PM

Fauch said:
well, obvious, selling your work for a salary for exemple.

Sorry, I don't understand, selling is exploiting?

Nah forget it, I can't understand, I am driven too much by my ethics, this kind of things just go over my reach.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 19, 2014 09:58 PM
Edited by xerox at 21:59, 19 May 2014.

I think JJ has a point. Libertarians generally have a problem seeing that some supposedly voluntary transactions, aren't all that voluntary. If a person asks you to have sex with him, or else he leaves you to die, then while that might theoretically be "voluntary", it certainly isn't much of that in practice. That's anything but freedom.
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