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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Sexuality
Thread: Sexuality This thread is 24 pages long: 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14 ... 20 24 · «PREV / NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 12, 2014 08:33 AM

We have this, directly on the subject.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 12, 2014 12:06 PM

Orzie said:
Fauch said:
what are those anti-gays laws? I thought that you had the right to be gay in russia but that it was forbidden to promote homosexuality.

Well, Putin publicly stated that there will be no gay marriage in Russia. The ultimate majority approved that, as expected. We are still being taught that being gay is an illness, not a choice.

UPD. Didn't find a more suitable thread, if someone knows a better one, I can remove the post.


What do you think can be done to change the Russian view on homosexuality?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Sal
Sal


Famous Hero
posted September 12, 2014 12:31 PM

Directly, nothing IMO. It is not the kind of subject on which people can be urged, forced or censored.

Paradoxically, I believe that less you criticize and greet it as a "superior western" progress, faster they will relax about.

But positive gays discrimination as today in Euro countries (bearded Conchita singing for ONE hour in front of Parliament), don't dream too long, Russians will never accept that.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 12, 2014 12:46 PM
Edited by xerox at 12:46, 12 Sep 2014.

I think more globalization and higher material welfare is the long-term solution. There's a strong, positive correlation between material welfare and individualism.

What sort of positive discrimination do LGBTQ people enjoy in Europe?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Sal
Sal


Famous Hero
posted September 12, 2014 01:54 PM

In MY opinion, a single representative of [insert here any minority name] which proves to be exceptional in some area is ten thousand times more valuable to its minority universal recognition, acceptance and respect than 100 mediocre ones who keep bickering for same result.

Want to show Russians that gays are like everyone else? Show them that they can be thousand times better: let's talk about Tchaikovsky, Gogol, Diaghilev and Nijinsky.  Show the European parliament their master works.

But Conchita Wurst?

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted September 12, 2014 01:56 PM

Okay: Oscar Wilde.
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 12, 2014 02:41 PM

What has Conchita Wurst to do with positive discrimination???

I agree respected public figures being LGBTQ is important. Like Neil Patrick Harris.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 12, 2014 02:44 PM
Edited by artu at 14:47, 12 Sep 2014.

Most people already know Oscar Wilde or Tchaikovsky was gay. That doesnt always do it. People tend to think " sure, they are artists, they would be eccentric." Some people here have prejudice against drinking but they are also fine with most of the famous poets of the past, whose some verses are now like proverbs, were alcoholics. US had many famous black musicians, even back when racism was very hardcore. People had no problem listening to Louis Armstrong but if his kid wanted to go to the same school with the white folks, they burned crosses.  There was this scene in a Spike Lee movie, a white guy was accusing blacks about crime and living on welfare checks, being lazy etc etc. The black guy asked him who was his favorite musician and he answered Michael Jackson, his favorite ball player Michael Jordan, his favorite actor, he says Eddie Murphy... So now, the black guy looks at him with a victorious face and the white guy says: But they are not black like you!

We have gay singers, poets, fashion designers. But an openly gay mayor would be out of the question, for example. An officer in the military would be discharged within hours. Especially, since the Romantic Era, there's like this unwritten law which says artists, show people and to a degree intellectuals are allowed to do things that would be considered shameful if a "normal" person does. Heavy drugs are a taboo everywhere, yet actors and rock stars go in and out of rehab like it's their summer house. Everybody knows about it and consider it a routine thing. It's one of the things that the society is very hypocrite about. As long as you deliver the goods, I'll turn a blind eye to your marginal habits.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 12, 2014 03:51 PM

Orzie said:
Fauch said:
what are those anti-gays laws? I thought that you had the right to be gay in russia but that it was forbidden to promote homosexuality.

Well, Putin publicly stated that there will be no gay marriage in Russia. The ultimate majority approved that, as expected. We are still being taught that being gay is an illness, not a choice.


is it that oppressive to forbid gay marriage?
in the west many people are fed up about some gay or feminist movements for example, which are constantly nitpicking about issues that are irrelevant to most people and doing their best to cleave the society.
our government seems to do its best to fuel such movements, but maybe Putin has a better clue about it.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted September 12, 2014 04:07 PM

Homophobia in Russia is not about "banning gay marriage"  Gays are being blacklisted by banks, employers, and landlords. Equating same sex relationships to straight sex relationships can cost you up to 30 000€ (new gay propaganda law. LGBT organizations are being labeled as "foreign agents", that means they are thought to be "spy agencies" of foreign countries lol. Gay marriage is not gonna be an option for gays for decades if ever, Russia is like hell for gay people.
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted September 12, 2014 04:08 PM

I've heard that about Russia.  Sounds awful.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 12, 2014 05:04 PM

xerox said:

What do you think can be done to change the Russian view on homosexuality?


Heh, well - banning Christianity, lol. I don't think it's even possible - because homophobia is self-supporting. Gay-themed jokes, using "gay" as an insult and as argument for proving the West "filthy" and "rotten".

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 12, 2014 05:14 PM

OmegaDestroyer said:
I've heard that about Russia.  Sounds awful.


It's not really hell, it's just different. Even gays don't think the family is necessary. Our marriage institute is anyway crumbling.

Besides, if you don't let everyone know you're gay, everyone will be okay with you. If you make a lot of nuisance about your gay preferences, nobody will like you. Nobody is really interested if you're gay, and if you force this info to be known, it won't cause anything except annoying feel.

Same with vegans - if you don't eat meat it's okay, but if you mention your preferences every minute, you'll be the hated one. Same for if you eat meat, but these people are the majority and don't need everyone's special attention - they just live with their preferences.

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Sal
Sal


Famous Hero
posted September 12, 2014 05:39 PM

Same here. Many friends told me one day they are gay. No reaction from my side. If they insist to have a reaction, I feel annoyed, as I am not interested in other's sexual preferences to the point to start a discussion.

Mind you, I have same reactions when a hetero tries to explain me what are his phantasms.

But when a girl talks me about, that's another story. Ab origine fidelis.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted September 12, 2014 05:43 PM
Edited by artu at 17:44, 12 Sep 2014.

@Orzie

Well, if the rules of Christianity are so crucial to society, how come marriage is crumbling? The statistics don't display you overwhelmingly religious, with a quarter of "spiritual but not religious."

Btw, if there are blacklists like Minion says, it's much more different than a policy of "I'll leave you alone, if you don't shove it down my throat."

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Sal
Sal


Famous Hero
posted September 12, 2014 05:57 PM

I love how the absolute tolerance some preach handcuffs them into impossible equations.

Respect to all religions, respect to not traditional sexual relations, while both are mutually exclusive. So far, Pope Francis didn't say a word about Russia nor condemned it. Not speaking about Muslims, that door is forever sealed.

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 12, 2014 06:01 PM
Edited by orzie at 18:12, 12 Sep 2014.

The trick is that we are not religious en masse, but it has come a part of education and lifestyle - same for feeling gay preferences wrong. It's just a prejudice which is based on the traditional education. The less intelligent is the people, the less tolerant they are, at some degree in both extremes.

The marriage institute is crumbling due to the influence of the West where career comes to the first place, and also the fact that the level of life has risen. Family in old Russia was primary a survival technique where the strict gender roles and related responsibilities provided the most effective results. Yet, strong women always existed, and they sometimes dominated over their husbands. Now we don't need families as the necessary element of survival, and thus, it's not so commonly needed as before.

So like I said, Russian lifestyle is a mix of Western and Eastern ones, which often conflict, and spawn strictly different preferences amongst people, which often cause general misunderstanding between different categories of population.

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Orzie
Orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted September 12, 2014 06:54 PM

I mean, a friend of mine who has roots in the Southern regions (near the Ukrainian border) once came to visit relatives, and they asked her: "How, you are 25 and you still haven't got married and given birth to some children? For what do you even live? What freaking Ph.D. are you talking about?" So, this situation is really complicated.



PS Damn, I can't edit my message for some reason, it says that my username doesn't match with the author of my message. Must be an engine glitch.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted September 12, 2014 07:50 PM

The login box is lowercase sensitive. ;-)

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 28, 2014 04:16 PM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 16:21, 28 Sep 2014.

xerox said:


What do you think can be done to change the Russian view on homosexuality?

Nukes? Teeheehee just kidding.. or not! Nah i'm kidding. No wait! No definetely kidding!well...
Despite the anti gay law there and the putin gay propaganda, the thing that bothers me the most there is that a gay person got tortured to death because of his sexuality and there was almost no punishment(from what i know please someone enlighten me)
So no,it's not okay being gay in russia.

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