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Blizzardboy
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posted January 07, 2020 09:58 AM |
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John Bolton is dancing with glee right now. The easiest way to do a retaliatory strike is to hit troops in Iraq, and Trump doesn't want to leave Iraq without the Iraqi government paying it billions of dollars for the airbase that it never asked to built in the first place. More blackmail.
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CountBezuhoff
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Nihil sub sole novum
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posted January 07, 2020 09:01 PM |
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*vroom vroom*
'Is that the bike of War that I hear?'
The Count
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blob2
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Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 07, 2020 10:31 PM |
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I get this funny feeling that everyone is like "anticipating" this conflict. Media, internets, opportunists behind curtains. We live in a society in which everything comes down to entertainment. I see a news report and the media is like "Is it here yet?", "Will Iran retalate (get a f*cking move on, we're waiting!)".
Sad but true.
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Blizzardboy
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posted January 07, 2020 11:05 PM |
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Iran retaliated against a crowd of its own bystanders.
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Blizzardboy
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posted January 08, 2020 03:33 AM |
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In all cerealness, I've been prepping for several months to do an overseas job and I just got certified this November and my interview is this Friday on January 10th. It's in the UAE, so this could potentially completely screw up my calendar.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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blob2
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posted January 11, 2020 01:06 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 13:11, 11 Jan 2020.
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So the Ukrainian Airlines Boeing was ultimately shot down by Iranian forces in consequence of a fatal error (no wonder they didn't want to admit it although presumptions where there).
My question is: who is to blame for this tragedy? Iran? Or maybe Trump cus his decision to kill off the Suleymani brought total confusion to Iranian forces, so errors like this one were bound to happen (in such a situation there is a lot of tension and disinformation in the chain of command, there is no certainty if hostile forces aren't approaching your borders etc).
Once again, big boys play, innocent people die...
PS: Btw ISIS is very happy Suleymani was killed, claim it will help them rebuild faster 
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Salamandre
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posted January 11, 2020 01:25 PM |
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I can't think of anything more snowflake insanity than blame Trump for the plane shot-down.
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artu
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posted January 11, 2020 02:55 PM |
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Blame “the fog of war.”
Kasim Suleymani was no saint for sure, but taking down one of Iran’s most prior generals is obviously an open invitation to war, so you can blame the Iranians in terms of being incompotent but you cant blame them for retaliating.
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Salamandre
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posted January 11, 2020 03:02 PM |
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That's another thing. Also one should not run its mouth about going to war with USA if he can't recognize a 200 passengers jet from a drone. Imagine further actions.
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Blizzardboy
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posted January 11, 2020 03:12 PM |
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Killing Soleimani was stupid and reckless and nonconstructive. He is now replaced by somebody who is basically a clone of him, and there's plenty more where that came from.
Do I blame Iran for retaliating? Yes, I do, because if they accidentally did kill troops the USA probably would have already retaliated by now, which would also be stupid, but that is just the unfortunate reality between these two governments. They're not making decisions based on maximizing the chances for peace.
Trump is enigmatic as ever. He got rid of Bolton because he was too hawkish, but then he did this anyway.
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Blizzardboy
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posted January 11, 2020 03:33 PM |
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In my opinion, I think what Iran _really_ wanted to happen was for them to launch some missiles, purposely not kill anybody, and then have the USA attack them. That would have set the stage perfectly for them .
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Salamandre
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posted January 11, 2020 03:34 PM |
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Bad decision for me too. But what can one propose other? An Islamic Theocracy working day and night to acquire the nuclear bomb and spending money and time to finance various terrorist actions. If you don't put pressure on them, physically, which means such actions, what you do to stop them?
Talk? it gave great results, yeah.
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Blizzardboy
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posted January 11, 2020 03:44 PM |
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Just like any other country, Iran has its hardass people and it has its more moderate people. The moderates have now been weakened and nationalist sentiment has surged.
The actual solution is going to come within Iran itself (and the USA), but that is less likely to happen anytime in the near future with everything Trump has done in the past few years. Obama's deal with Iran should never have been discarded.
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Salamandre
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posted January 11, 2020 03:54 PM |
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Blizzardboy said:
Just like any other country
You mean any country which :
-has laws considering women being half of men value
-has laws allowing the husband to prevent his wife from taking any job found to be incompatible with the family interest or the dignity of the husband
-where women have no legal protection against domestic violence or sexual harassment by anyone
-hangs gays in public places
-people having sex outside of marriage face prison or death penalty
-ends in blood most public protest
I don't think nationalism is anywhere near the top of their problems.
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Blizzardboy
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posted January 11, 2020 03:56 PM |
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Okay... your point? Is USA suppose to go to war with Iran because its sexist and homophobic and angry?
While we're at it, let's also go to war with the entire continent of Africa, India, half of Asia, and West Virginia.
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Salamandre
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posted January 11, 2020 04:00 PM |
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No, my point is that you suggest to act with them like "any other country", which they aren't.
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Blizzardboy
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posted January 11, 2020 04:02 PM |
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You realize almost 90% of the planet doesn't share Western values, correct?
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Salamandre
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posted January 11, 2020 04:13 PM |
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I think you misunderstand me. I don't care about other countries sharing western values, I even respect the Islamic way.
AS long as: they do not impose on us by millions moving in, they don't terrorize us, they don't have or are on the way of having nuclear weapons. At the moment one of those things happens (all three happened), there is need to critically look at that culture and predict what's next, then take act.
Of course, if would have helped if Bush junior didn't create the total mess in that area, but now is done.
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blob2
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posted January 11, 2020 05:22 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 17:28, 11 Jan 2020.
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Salamandre said:
That's another thing. Also one should not run its mouth about going to war with USA if he can't recognize a 200 passengers jet from a drone. Imagine further actions.
I've recently read an opinion from an expert that it's pretty hard to discern if "a dot" on radar is a civil plane or a fighter jet/drone. You think they're sitting there watching the skies with binoculars? It's an obvious mistake coming from flight control, because you need to check things like schedules and air traffic and send distress signals, but descisions take only a few seconds while Iran was in a state of raised alert. Not to mention that USA doesn't exactly have a clean slate in terms of these kind of incidents: https://www.businessinsider.com/iran-air-flight-655-us-navy-shot-down-1988-photos-2020-1?IR=T
And in reference to your earlier post I'm not blaming Trump as in "he's responsible for the victims lives", because I'm not that naive, that was more of a rethorical question, because at the end of the day probably no one will personally take the blame for those lives. I'm just pointing out that when some rash decisions are made, tragedies follow...
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Blizzardboy
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posted January 11, 2020 05:35 PM |
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A couple of middle-management guys in the military will take the fall, of course.
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