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Blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted July 01, 2020 03:14 PM |
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Explaining behavior is not condoning behavior. This is really simple but far too many people don't get that.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 01, 2020 03:17 PM |
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Man, the lack of knowledge in the left's answers here is staggering. Every single leftist reply since my last post(but certainly, not ISOLATED to) is outright uninformed, naive, illogical... Where would i start to point out the current errors? Moreover, should i even bother to continue trying to point out the facts for you all, at all anymore? How much more unbiased information are you guys going to ignore/not compute into your understanding of the VALID points that have brought up to all of you across the various subjects where the realities were clear-cut and absolutely UNARGUABLE??? This all has been exercises in futility. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 01, 2020 03:24 PM |
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@JJ
What comment? You extracted parts that fit to your narrative, ignored the others then created the ones you need.
Parts you ignored:
-a hugely disproportionate percentage of street crime is committed by young men of color
-Something happens to people of good will working in that environment
- A mental shortcut becomes almost irresistible and maybe even rational by some lights
Nowhere it is said that cops "do a mistake" then "come to grips" doesn't mean "not accept", that's your invention. What Commey says is that there is accountability on BOTH sides, one cause producing one effect. Look at the order as he lists them, dig?
JollyJoker said:
We certainly didn't hear it in the US, and I don't think we have tried that path in earnest.
What are you talking about? Welfare, affirmative action, better opportunities than in any other parts of the world, perfect and equal laws for everyone, USA is at the top of how handling minorities. Show me one country with same cultural difference proportions who did it better.
And for what response? ignorant thugs tearing down Abraham Lincoln and G. Washington statues and psychobabble about white privilege.
What about the millions of people of color who each year try to get in - by ALL means, is that some idiotic urge to get shot by white cops?
You take a 0,000001% police mistakes then make it sound like it was 99%. If your opinions ignore facts why should they matter?
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Blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted July 01, 2020 03:34 PM |
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fred79 said:
Man, the lack of knowledge in the left's answers here is staggering. Every single leftist reply since my last post(but certainly, not ISOLATED to) is outright uninformed, naive, illogical... Where would i start to point out the current errors? Moreover, should i even bother to continue trying to point out the facts for you all, at all anymore? How much more unbiased information are you guys going to ignore/not compute into your understanding of the VALID points that have brought up to all of you across the various subjects where the realities were clear-cut and absolutely UNARGUABLE??? This all has been exercises in futility.
Okay.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 01, 2020 03:36 PM |
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Salamandre said:
If your opinions ignore facts why should they matter?
This sums up my stance perfectly. 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 01, 2020 05:02 PM |
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Salamandre said:
@JJ
What comment? You extracted parts that fit to your narrative, ignored the others then created the ones you need.
Ok, let's quote
Parts you ignored:
-a hugely disproportionate percentage of street crime is committed by young men of color
-Something happens to people of good will working in that environment
- A mental shortcut becomes almost irresistible and maybe even rational by some lights
Nowhere it is said that cops "do a mistake" then "come to grips" doesn't mean "not accept", that's your invention. What Commey says is that there is accountability on BOTH sides, one cause producing one effect. Look at the order as he lists them, dig?
It's you who doesn't dig. Let's take the quote again:
Quote:
Police officers on patrol in our nation’s cities often work in environments where a hugely disproportionate percentage of street crime is committed by young men of color. Something happens to people of good will working in that environment. After years of police work, officers often can’t help but be influenced by the cynicism they feel.
A mental shortcut becomes almost irresistible and maybe even rational by some lights. The two young black men on one side of the street look like so many others the officer has locked up. Two white men on the other side of the street—even in the same clothes—do not. The officer does not make the same association about the two white guys, whether that officer is white or black. And that drives different behavior. The officer turns toward one side of the street and not the other. We need to come to grips with the fact that this behavior complicates the relationship between police and the communities they serve.
And this is what I said:
Quote:
Come to grips, not accept, and this can mean a lot of things.
What this ACTUALLY says, isn't what you think. It means that it's not A FEW cops that make a mistake. It means, that ALL cops are PRONE TO make this kind of mistake because of a certain "occupational behavior" based on their experience - which indeed complicates the relationship between police and community (where the black part is involved).
What I said, is a correct summary, even if you don't see that. What you point to is all summarized in the word "experience". The experience they make causes a certain biassed occupational behavior (or, in plain English, black people are more suspect). This is turn, says Comey, "complicates the relationship between police and community".
The problem here is, that while young blacks have an overproportional part in crime this doesn't make the lawful blacks criminals, which Comey means, when he speaks of a complicated relationship. And he also says, that "we need to come to grips" with that, which means, find a solution.
See, the non-criminal blacks didn't do anything but BEING black to warrant being seen with a bias based on experience. It's not THEIR fault. They can't change their color, they can't change their situation.
Quote:
JollyJoker said:
We certainly didn't hear it in the US, and I don't think we have tried that path in earnest.
What are you talking about? Welfare, affirmative action, better opportunities than in any other parts of the world, perfect and equal laws for everyone, USA is at the top of how handling minorities. Show me one country with same cultural difference proportions who did it better.
What are YOU talking about? Do I have to repeat everything? Black people were slaves once. After they were freed they were unwanted and segregated. They have been pushed to the fringes of the society, and for a long time blacks "making it" did that because they made it within their black community, not in the whole society. This has of course changed since the 1970s, but you have to look at the situation as it was THEN.
Quote:
And for what response? ignorant thugs tearing down Abraham Lincoln and G. Washington statues and psychobabble about white privilege.
Every society raises und grooms their ignorant thugs by not educating them. That's what the likes of you always forget. If you don't want this, educate them.
Quote:
What about the millions of people of color who each year try to get in - by ALL means, is that some idiotic urge to get shot by white cops?
You take a 0,000001% police mistakes then make it sound like it was 99%. If your opinions ignore facts why should they matter?
What do mean, "get in"? To immigrate? BLACK people? Are you kidding? Half of the immigrants are Mexican - and since you need a green card and so on, you can immigrate into the US only when you are rich or are politically persecuted. You can't just immigrate into the US, just because you don't like it in the midth of some Ebola infested African country.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 01, 2020 05:09 PM |
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Blizzardboy said:
@Joonas
It's the intro to the article. Gun ownership and gun culture are completely relevant to police brutality because in the USA people are forced into situations that make a lethal encounter extremely more likely and that includes interactions between police and the public.
I know it's an intro to the article. I'm telling you it's bad and you shouldn't have used that if you wanted to make that point or raise interest in it. Giving an indication that you had read and understood the article would have worked much, much better. For example, "Hey, check this out, this guy makes good points about gun carry laws/ownership/culture in relation to heightened chance of lethal encounters between police and the public."
As to your second point, police brutality against unarmed opponents(george floyd, etc.) is not relevant with gun culture. Police violence against possible armed opponents is but this is not what the current mess is about. These are two different issues, one should not confuse the two.
Take the quotation you used as an example. It describes a situation where a police officer(assumedly alone and scared out of his mind) is giving direct orders related to his own personal safety and they are being forcefully opposed by the other person. This is not a case of police brutality in the light of what we know from the article. Did a man die? Supposedly. Shot dead by the police officer? Supposedly. Was it caused by the assumed presence of a gun on the man? Supposedly. Would the man have been shot without an assumed gun in the situation? Supposedly not. Was it excessive use of force? Supposedly not.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 01, 2020 08:02 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
What are YOU talking about? Do I have to repeat everything? Black people were slaves once.
Once. Not now, not yesterday, not the last hundred and fifty years. You really believe blacks are so inferior in everything, unable to move on and to think by their own. Then, those who made it and call for collective responsibility, you call them "mislead".
Hopefully you came into this world to fix their problem.
Had I been black, I would've been shocked by such complaisance and arrogance from the same who enslaved my ancestors back then.
Why don't you just formulate your real thoughts, which are : "apply laws and consider accountability differently when it comes to blacks". At least then we know what's about, instead of creating smoke screens.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 01, 2020 08:05 PM |
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Salamandre said:
JollyJoker said:
What are YOU talking about? Do I have to repeat everything? Black people were slaves once.
Once. Not now, not yesterday, not the last hundred and fifty years. You really believe blacks are so inferior in everything, unable to move on and to think by their own. Then, those who made it and call for collective responsibility, you call them "mislead".
Hopefully you came into this world to fix their problem.
Had I been black, I would've been shocked by such complaisance and arrogance from the same who enslaved my ancestors back then.
That's your thinking. Mine is different and I recommend to read my post again and not stop after 3 sentences and then start a rant.
But that's how people like you work, isn't it? Complain about the media at every opportunity and argue dishonestly and get demagogical.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 01, 2020 08:41 PM |
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You know, this thread started out as a pretty good read 6 years ago. I like reading from the beginning and seeing where my mind was back then. It's like a journal of sorts. One thing i got right back then, was my prediction that things would get so much worse during this presidency. Another being that our country's image went further into the toilet than when bush jr. was president.
Although, the reasons for both are certainly different.
And me making the same prediction as before, about how much worse than before the next 4 years are going to be, will certainly ring true again.
Face it, i'm a Seer. 
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted July 01, 2020 08:57 PM |
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Soviet Union lasted 72 years.
The Soyviet Union of CHAZ, Seattle couldn't even make it a month.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 01, 2020 09:30 PM |
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"Soyviet". Win.
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Blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted July 01, 2020 09:34 PM |
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@Joonas
Floyd was the straw that broke the camel's back. The current outrage didn't spontaneously generate because of one incident. There is a pre-existing pattern of people of color taking the brunt of police brutality. I'm not talking specifically only about Floyd but about the wider endemic problem.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 01, 2020 09:56 PM |
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fred79 said:
"Soyviet". Win.
That’s offensive to the Vietnamese.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Blizzardboy
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posted July 02, 2020 12:59 AM |
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I miss Seattle. The banana slugs that live in the temperate Olympian rainforests are fantastic. The independent state of CHAZ may be gone for now, but the tales of its heroic deeds will be remembered forever in the great wheel of life.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 02, 2020 03:40 AM |
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Relevant.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted July 02, 2020 12:01 PM |
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So it seems that the number of coronavirus cases is on the all time high in USA and some states are deciding to return back to some of the on-going-pandemic measures.
As I see it USA is stupid on both sides, doesn't matter if it's left or Trump: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/us-coronavirus-cases-record-one-day-increase-trump-silent. Left for encouraging protests, Trump for disregarding the virus.
But we have the same c*ap here in Poland. We have second round of presidential elections (and both candidates are pretty leveled at this point) so our Prime Minister (who is ofc related to one of the candidates) encourages 60+ old people to get out of homes to vote (because statistics show there are potential 1 mln voters in this group) by saying stuff like "it's safe to go out now don't be scared" or "the virus is like flu at this point".
Suddenly the virus has "disappeared" (statistics beg to differ but hey!).
The world is mad and you guys know it.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 02, 2020 12:18 PM |
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I don't care if the black plague comes back; i'll be voting when it's time. Probably the only person in my immediate family who'll vote, regardless of anything.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted July 02, 2020 12:27 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 12:37, 02 Jul 2020.
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fred79 said:
I don't care if the black plague comes back; i'll be voting when it's time. Probably the only person in my immediate family who'll vote, regardless of anything.
I'm not against voting in times of pandemic (there are ways, safety practices). I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of politicians or media because suddenly after 3 months of paralysis the virus just went *poof*, and we can all do "what we want". And it seems people follow judging by their behavior...
You didn't see the madness that went here in PL. Governing party was hellbent on doing the election a few weeks ago in the main phase of pandemic, cus they were afraid of suffering drops in ratings if they will postpone them. Opposition was ofc hands and feet against it cus "government endangers the people" (in truth they suffered from pretty low ratings). A couple of affairs and law-braking (not ordering state of emergency, printing voting cards even though the election itself didn't have a clear legal status etc) by the governing party later we have today: almost normal elections like nothing ever happened before, campaigns, rallies and all...
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 02, 2020 06:44 PM |
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I'm aware. It's almost as if covid19 wasn't anything more than a means to restrict people for barely any reason at all... An oversold, hyper-hystericalized version of a flu...
Unless this was either just a test run, or that it's more dangerous in the long term; or weakens you for what's coming next...
Like, maybe, a new virus that hasn't yet crossed over to humans; also coming from China...
A lot to ruminate on. Nowhere to get concrete, unbiased info from, on that.
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