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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Politics in the U.S.
Thread: Politics in the U.S. This Popular Thread is 153 pages long: 1 20 ... 23 24 25 26 27 ... 40 60 80 100 120 140 153 · «PREV / NEXT»
EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 13, 2016 11:48 PM

This isn't a matter to be solved by using the same force. This isn't Rome to apply "eye for an eye" rule. Besides, one should at least count on the police to do some damn work, if you are talking about law itself. For using law into your own hands can do a lot of damage, one that may not be fixed.

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 13, 2016 11:55 PM
Edited by AlexSpl at 23:58, 13 Apr 2016.

Police, like military forces, is just armed people, specially trained, who follow orders (not yours), sometimes blindly.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted April 14, 2016 12:05 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 01:18, 14 Apr 2016.

AlexSpl said:
But there is a major difference between the two groups you have mentioned. If the first group gets corrupted, the second one becomes defenseless.


But there is no standard for when a civilian population is allegedly justified in "rising up" against their supposed oppressors. It's just this loose idea thrown around, and it assumes that tyranny is always easy to identify and everybody will agree on when they are or aren't being oppressed, when no such uniformity has ever existed. According to a group of militia in rural Oregon, they're basically allowed to do it anytime a government authority does something that they don't like, which shows the frailty and instability of relying on mobs for failsafes against despots. "Oh, the Department of Agriculture did something I don't agree with" *revolution*. "Oh, I don't like paying property taxes." *revolution* "Oh, I don't like what my commanding officer is telling me to do." *revolution* Do we really want to emulate Mexico in the 19th century & early 20th century, where we have to have wide-scale violence every other year because we communicate like children and constantly feel the need to revolution?

The number one threat for a lot of American history were jingoist Europeans. As late as the Civil War, imperialist France was entertaining plans of reconquering lost territory in the northern continent. Americans cannot - and have never - been able to agree on a just or unjust domestic government. Some Americans right now think it would be for the greater good to raze the capitol to the ground. Being armed against a foreign invading force is generally much more straightforward, except that obviously hasn't been an issue for the past 70 years, unless ICBMs qualify as an invading force
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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 14, 2016 12:25 AM
Edited by AlexSpl at 00:26, 14 Apr 2016.

Quote:
Being armed against a foreign invading force is generally much more straightforward.

This is one of the reasons why America cannot be so easily conquered like Europe in 1940's.

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gorman
gorman


Promising
Legendary Hero
Been around since before 2003
posted April 14, 2016 04:24 AM

We won't be conquered as they'll just nuke our mentally challenged cohorts off the face of the planet! Who would want to invade our country anyway?! They'd get sick of the whiners who'd be trying to get them to conform to their way of life and would end up going back home anyway LOL

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted April 14, 2016 06:58 AM

AlexSpl said:
Quote:
Being armed against a foreign invading force is generally much more straightforward.

This is one of the reasons why America cannot be so easily conquered like Europe in 1940's.
I guess some news don't reach you very quickly across the ocean but there are some recent inventions that make the small arms you so proudly possess kind of useless. Like this. Or this. Or this. And a few dozens more. Technically speaking, you'll last less than Europe because there are fewer people to kill in the US.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 14, 2016 12:31 PM

gorman said:
We won't be conquered as they'll just nuke our mentally challenged cohorts off the face of the planet! Who would want to invade our country anyway?! They'd get sick of the whiners who'd be trying to get them to conform to their way of life and would end up going back home anyway LOL


USSR (aka Russia) had the intent during the last century. It would've ended in a disaster if missiles were launched, though.

So do not underestimate such powers. Why else do you think countries like North Korea are to be persuaded to stop their missile launches?

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted April 14, 2016 11:09 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 23:48, 14 Apr 2016.

Zenofex said:
AlexSpl said:
Quote:
Being armed against a foreign invading force is generally much more straightforward.

This is one of the reasons why America cannot be so easily conquered like Europe in 1940's.
I guess some news don't reach you very quickly across the ocean but there are some recent inventions that make the small arms you so proudly possess kind of useless. Like this. Or this. Or this. And a few dozens more. Technically speaking, you'll last less than Europe because there are fewer people to kill in the US.


It's not just the fact that small arms are ineffective against a real army (although unless you plan to genocide the population, partisan rebels can still be a pain in the ass and drain the material benefits of an occupation). In the late 18th century world, militia were a standard form of defense in any country. Some countries didn't hardly have "regular armies" as such, besides police guards, but even for those that did, there was always a number-heavy force of militia to accompany the regular brigades. These were never random people that just showed up. You had superior officers and a chain of command like everybody else, and you were punished/executed for desertion just like anybody else.

So innovators of the United States Constitution are taking something that was commonly understood as a militia force (the closest equivalent in the contemporary world would be the National Guard) and in the 1970s began applying it to promulgate recklessly lax gun regulations in the general population, and the vast majority of the
American population has been duped into believing that it has always been that way. It's one of many examples in the world of history being successfully rewritten by a group of organized & motivated people. The two most famous periods in the past thousand years where history was deceptively rewritten in Western Culture are the Protestant Reformation and to a lesser extent the 19th century Enlightenment (especially under the Napoleans). Much further back, the process of Romanization rewrote local histories. History was rewritten under WW2 fascism and under communism as well, but those myths died out whereas in the previous two events, the rewriting of history remains largely successful to the present day.

So the American gun lobby is essentially a walking propaganda machine to promulgate a political cause, which is rooted in a combination of bad social science, egoism, and a very punitive/authoritarian outlook towards the justice system. It's an insatiable policy because every time there is violence, the answer is "more guns, more guns, more guns" to the point that schools, libraries, and universities are all being pressured by this wing of politics to be armed to the teeth.

I don't know why this aberration took root in the mid 20th century in the US whereas Europe and Japan dodged the bullet *ZING*. If I had to make a guess, it's because Europe and Japan were casualties of the Wars, whereas the US profited. So 1) firearms didn't have the same viscerally negative reaction for Americans, and 2) lax gun laws fit with the times of lax everything while the economy was still booming hard.
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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 15, 2016 08:27 PM
Edited by AlexSpl at 21:01, 15 Apr 2016.

We live in our own tiny comfortable worlds. We sincerely love our mother, father, brothers, and sisters. And we, actually, don't care about the world beyond. It seems very natural that we want to preserve our unique and ideal cell of society. But that's exactly the reason why we are so biased. I think, this is the root of our inherited prejudices and hatred. And that's the main reason why soldiers *so easily* send bullets into heads of men they don't even know...

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 22, 2016 10:19 PM

I thought and I thought...

Quote:
The leaders of the states wanted a strong and fair national government. But they also wanted to protect individual freedoms and prevent the government from abusing its power. They believed they could do this by having three separate branches of government: the executive, the legislative and the judicial.


I wonder which side will take the U.S. army if there is a conflict between the executive and the judicial branches.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 22, 2016 10:25 PM

You mean if the government tries to suspend the court or the court rules the government as illegal? In Poland the courthouse decided the constitutional changes the government tried to make were illegal, I don't know what came of it, but I don't see where the army comes into it.
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Living time backwards

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 22, 2016 10:34 PM
Edited by AlexSpl at 22:36, 22 Apr 2016.

I mean how the three branches are supposed to protect their interests if they don't have their own security forces?

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 22, 2016 11:14 PM

Just imagine how cool it sounds

NYLBP
NYJBP
NYEBP

LALBP
LAJBP
LAEBP

and so on.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted April 22, 2016 11:50 PM

AlexSpl said:
I thought and I thought...

Quote:
The leaders of the states wanted a strong and fair national government. But they also wanted to protect individual freedoms and prevent the government from abusing its power. They believed they could do this by having three separate branches of government: the executive, the legislative and the judicial.


I wonder which side will take the U.S. army if there is a conflict between the executive and the judicial branches.


From a historical perspective,  the judicial branch ruled the westward expansion into indigenous territory  as unconstitutional.  President Jefferson's famous reply was "Very good ruling  Mr Madison.  Now enforce it."

So the executive won.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 23, 2016 12:29 AM
Edited by AlexSpl at 01:35, 23 Apr 2016.

Thomas Jefferson's gravesite

Thomas Jefferson Memorial Statue

"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted April 23, 2016 02:05 PM

Quote:
If you're under 50 you really need to read this. If you’re over 50, you lived through it, so share it with those under 50. Amazing to me how much I had forgotten!

When Bill Clinton was president, he allowed Hillary to assume authority over a health care reform. Even after threats and intimidation, she couldn’t even get a vote in a democratic controlled congress. This fiasco cost the American taxpayers about $13 million in cost for studies, promotion, and other efforts.

Then President Clinton gave Hillary authority over selecting a female attorney general. Her first two selections were Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood – both were forced to withdraw their names from consideration. Next she chose Janet Reno – husband Bill described her selection as “my worst mistake.” Some may not remember that Reno made the decision to gas David Koresh and the Branch Davidian religious sect in Waco, Texas resulting in dozens of deaths of women and children.

Husband Bill allowed Hillary to make recommendations for the head of the Civil Rights Commission. Lani Guanier was her selection. When a little probing led to the discovery of Ms. Guanier’s radical views, her name had to be withdrawn from consideration.

Apparently a slow learner, husband Bill allowed Hillary to make some more recommendations. She chose former law partners Web Hubbel for the Justice Department, Vince Foster for the White House staff, and William Kennedy for the Treasury Department. Her selections went well: Hubbel went to prison, Foster (presumably) committed suicide, and Kennedy was forced to resign.

Many younger votes will have no knowledge of “Travelgate.” Hillary wanted to award unfettered travel contracts to Clinton friend Harry Thompson – and the White House Travel Office refused to comply. She managed to have them reported to the FBI and fired. This ruined their reputations, cost them their jobs, and caused a thirty-six month investigation. Only one employee, Billy Dale was charged with a crime, and that of the enormous crime of mixing personal and White House funds. A jury acquitted him of any crime in less than two hours.

Still not convinced of her ineptness, Hillary was allowed to recommend a close Clinton friend, Craig Livingstone, for the position of Director of White House security. When Livingstone was investigated for the improper access of about 900 FBI files of Clinton enemies (Filegate) and the widespread use of drugs by White House staff, suddenly Hillary and the president denied even knowing Livingstone, and of course, denied knowledge of drug use in the White House.

Following this debacle, the FBI closed its White House Liaison Office after more than thirty years of service to seven presidents.

Next, when women started coming forward with allegations of sexual harassment and rape by Bill Clinton, Hillary was put in charge of the #$%$ eruption” and scandal defense. Some of her more notable decisions in the debacle were:

She urged her husband not to settle the Paula Jones lawsuit. After the Starr investigation they settled with Ms. Jones.

She refused to release the Whitewater documents, which led to the appointment of Ken Starr as Special Prosecutor.

After $80 million dollars of taxpayer money was spent, Starr's investigation led to Monica Lewinsky, which led to Bill lying about and later admitting his affairs.
President Clinton gave Hillary authority

Hillary’s devious game plan resulted in Bill losing his license to practice law for 'lying under oath' to a grand jury and then his subsequent impeachment by the House of Representatives.

Hillary avoided indictment for perjury and obstruction of justice during the Starr investigation by repeating, “I do not recall,” “I have no recollection,” and “I don’t know” a total of 56 times while under oath.

After leaving the White House, Hillary was forced to return an estimated $200,000 in White House furniture, china, and artwork that she had stolen.

What a swell party – ready for another four or eight year of this type of low-life mess?

Now we are exposed to the destruction of possibly incriminating emails while Hillary was Secretary of State and the “pay to play” schemes of the Clinton Foundation – we have no idea what shoe will fall next.

But to her loyal fans (supporters) - I guess in her own words “what difference does it make?”



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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 23, 2016 02:09 PM

Where did all that come from? From which article?
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted April 23, 2016 02:50 PM

That is no article - it is something circulating facebook. *facepalm*

My guess.... very little, if any, of it is true. The tipoff: those blanket statements, like 'Bill Clinton gave Hillary the authority...', which is a completely non-provable statement. Hillary Clinton had no actual authority over anything, not having been elected. As to whether Bill Clinton gave her 'authority', privately, there is no possible way to know.

Statements like that generally mean that the diatribe is just partisan prejudice. A huge waste of time.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted April 23, 2016 08:53 PM

Minion said:
Statements like that generally mean that the diatribe is just partisan prejudice. A huge waste of time.


Shows what you do not know, I lived through that mess, remember much of it well and it may be biased for purpose (what is not today) but it is not a pack of lies. Many Americans resented the power given her by her husband. He was elected to be President...she was not. Whatever good the Clinton Dynasty "could" have done for this country, that went the same way as the rest of the politicians...to power and greed.EoS


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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted April 23, 2016 09:11 PM

Just because you are older doesn't mean you can't be fooled by smear campaigns. If there is evidence from credible journalistic sources then show them, but keep such propaganda pieces like above out of this great thread about Politics In USA.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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