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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Politics in the U.S.
Thread: Politics in the U.S. This thread is 95 pages long: 1 10 20 30 ... 38 39 40 41 42 ... 50 60 70 80 90 95 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 04, 2016 10:36 PM

@artu

Dude, Israel is a nation, not a palace.  The wall it built has been effective.  I am quite sure walls can be effective for other nations as well.  In fact the US has border walls in certain places and the well built ones are effective.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/fence.html

However, a palace wall is just a smaller version of a border wall.  A wall is a physical barrier that can be effective in securing The border of an estate or of a nation.


Unwanted immigration is not the only reason to build a wall.  Making it harder for terrorists to come in is another reason. Certainly Islamic terror is only increasing and jihadis have been captured coming across the border.  Cartels are bringing them in.


@markkur

Your observations about morality are certainly valid.  This election proves that.  I mean a woman who has committed multiple felonies as the democrat nominee and most democrats still support her.  What other proof is needed?

Some people feel offended that Christianity was very important in the founding of the US.  Oh well.  

As society strays more from the Christian ethics it becomes more corrupt and we get more corrupt leaders.  Society devolving.  Murders and rapes in schools.  Streets of major cities like Chicago running with blood.  Evil must now be called good and good evil.  Chaos.

Politics in a democracy can't really be separated from morality.  Immoral leaders are not going to protect the rights of the People.  The founding fathers all supported religious liberty as a God-given right.  They wanted religious people to impact politics but wanted no government control of religion.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 04, 2016 11:08 PM
Edited by artu at 23:08, 04 Jul 2016.

Hmmm, I quote:
Elodin said:
Some criticize Trump's border wall policy.  Yet we see Israel's wall has been a success.  We see the White House is planning to increase the height of the White House wall. If walls do not help why are they making WH wall higher? We see elites with walls around their estates. Why?

And I say you are comparing the functionality of palace walls to a wall that will cover the whole border. If built, (I don't think it will), it would have to cover thousands of miles. You reply:
Quote:
Dude, Israel is a nation, not a palace.  The wall it built has been effective.  I am quite sure walls can be effective for other nations as well.  In fact the US has border walls in certain places and the well built ones are effective.

I'd say it's very clear that I'm referring to the White House part on that quote but I guess, that's just me!

When it comes to the wall in Israel, it covers a much shorter length and it's mostly built against instant suicide bomb attacks in an urban era, not illegal immigrants or drug dealers who transit. I don't think ISIS terrorists would sneak in through your Mexican border and try to blow up some Texas ranches, though.
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted July 04, 2016 11:13 PM

As if the wall would stop drug dealers. There were reports of them even making tunnels underneath the border.

I'd say even if the wall is built on Mexican border, it would tempt people even more to do some shady business. I was told when the prohibition of alcohol in the first half of the 20th century was taken place, this only encouraged organizations like mafia to supply people with alcohol. So I don't see big difference in this case, either.
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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 04, 2016 11:22 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 23:23, 04 Jul 2016.

I doubt a literal wall will happen if Trump is elected, I mean the logistics and cost would be way to high. The US Federal debt is high enough as it is no one, I doubt even the Republicans, would let it happen.
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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted July 05, 2016 12:39 AM

Israel and their starcraft-like wall and building shenanigans to beat the Palestinian zerg.

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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted July 05, 2016 12:54 AM

Kayna said:
Israel and their starcraft-like wall and building shenanigans to beat the Palestinian zerg.


LOL
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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted July 05, 2016 01:32 AM
Edited by Kayna at 01:35, 05 Jul 2016.

Maybe Israel will develop supply depots that can lower itself in the ground whenever a Jew wants to cross but remain in place when a Palestinian wants to cross. Then you'd have Netanyahu's son at the UN agreeing to stop building "walls", because he's such a nice guy.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Cave Moose
posted July 05, 2016 02:35 AM

Kayna said:
Israel and their starcraft-like wall and building shenanigans to beat the Palestinian zerg.


This thread has just been redeemed.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Cave Moose
posted July 05, 2016 03:44 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 07:13, 05 Jul 2016.

Building a wall,  obviously,  will imperfectly help keep unwanted people out,  but there's a psychological and literal price tag attached to it. Mexico-US relations are pretty tolerable these days and immigration from Mexico has overall been decreasing since the 90s. I dont know if the trend still holds in 2016 but there was a point where more Mexicans were going home than staying for various reasons, namely that it was hard to find work anyway and dropping everything and leaving your family and friends sucks badly,  especially in a Latin culture versus the more callous Anglo culture.

There's the actual literal price. Roman Britannia, Byzantium,  China,  Germany,  Israel,  etc,  built walls and they served a purpose with limited efficacy but it was also a wallet drainer. Besides,  terrorists generate individually or they work through cells. We're not repelling a marching army. There are more effective ways to curb terrorists or much more importantly violent crime, such as withdrawing somewhat from the global theater,  disarming civilians,  disarming police,  and expanding programs to keep people out of desperate circumstances. Radicalism is generated through desperation.

And pressuring Mexico to pay for a wall is insanely bad since it will discourage Mexico from borrowing in the future, and maybe anybody else. It would add a time line to the repayment that previously never existed. The mafia does that. The idea is lunacy. And,  legally,  there's no way to make them do it.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Cave Moose
posted July 05, 2016 05:22 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 05:33, 05 Jul 2016.

I accept that Trump has a very developed skill set for a very specific purpose in life,  which is being a celebrity and owning companies,  but that knowledge is very insulated from the wider reality and many of his ideas are dangerously naive and unrealistic. He can't even do most of what he says anyway, but a lot of people could die if he became president. Part of the reason his VP pick is a hard choice is finding somebody compatible with him. You can't find names within the GOP or Democrats that think his ideas are conceivable. He's literally guessing his way through into a position with a thousand times more responsibility than an ER doctor, but with his talent for stirring passions -  and he has a lot of it unfortunately - here's not far away.
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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Mickey cult member
posted July 05, 2016 05:36 AM
Edited by Celfious at 06:15, 05 Jul 2016.

Mexicans are awesome people okay.. There is nothing limiting them from building ladders either. What sort of wall are we talking here? Are we going to have military grade sensors all over the place? With robots and wifi calling local authorities?  Surveillance?

Sounds like a few billion bucks down the drain to me when it comes to some illegals with intent.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Cave Moose
posted July 05, 2016 06:54 AM

Plus Mexicans have ladders. Celfious has my back.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 05, 2016 09:05 AM

Well not only that. Watch from 13:20

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted July 05, 2016 09:12 AM

Elodin said:

@markkur

Your observations about morality are certainly valid.  This election proves that.  I mean a woman who has committed multiple felonies as the democrat nominee and most democrats still support her.  What other proof is needed?


And Bernie now supports her? What a sell out.

Years back I thought maybe Bill Clinton, coming from Arkansas might be a hope for the future. Of course time cured me of that pretty quick but what I never knew about was his Arkansas Machine. I saw an old Documentary called the "Clinton Chronicles" on u-tube and no way could I ever dreamed the guy and his wife were that bad. But cocaine will eventually fry a mind.

One of the two other points on the triangle is...Truth. Just the fact that many politicians today pursue having 2 identities should be enough to make most people consider what is behind what they hear...but many don't.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 05, 2016 09:38 AM

Politicians are only henchmen.

If you want to know what's wrong with morals in the US of A, just watch This. It's pretty revealing. It's all about the almighty dollar - but of course you need the laws for that to work.

And I cannot understand, actually, that some people here have thrown the legal foundation justice rests upon outta the window: innocent until proven guilty. Difficult in the case of politicians, I know, but certainly even more difficult in the case of billionaires who have spent a copious amount of time in court one way or another.

That is, as you all know, the reason for the existence of the US of A in the first place: an unwillingness to pay taxes - money. That, and the fact, that the emigrants from Europe wouldn't have emigrated in the first place, if they had been priviledged in some way, be it in terms of wealth or birthright. Clean slate for everyone, and a fair opportunity to pursuit happiness. There is nothing miraculous about that. Especially not considering the natives.

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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Mickey cult member
posted July 05, 2016 11:22 AM
Edited by Celfious at 12:27, 05 Jul 2016.

Bernie does not support Hillary. Bernie is not supporting Hilary. I know the MSM sheep feed has blown up one thing he said probably still now 2 week later but, he has to publicly assert that he will support the democratic nominee otherwise by regulation relinquish his chance of becoming the democratic nominee in this bogus *** two party system.

Again: Bernie is IN the race, and fights against practically everything this establishment democrat Hillary stands for.

Hillary is cooked anyways.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally said:
(a) Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
(b) Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.
"Hillary Clinton.. and her staff..  Burned and Destroyed U. S. Government Records" Destroying federal records. Destroying government records is a crime under the espionage act, and a crime under the federal records act. It should and likely is widely known in government offices that destroying government records is against the law.

She is hardly qualified to work night shift at 7/11, actually she should be working the kitchen or laundry in the penitentiary or worse.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted July 05, 2016 12:26 PM

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
I am surprised that Medicare has passed Defense/War by such an extreme margin.

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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted July 05, 2016 01:40 PM

@JJ
Hillary is entitled to a LEGAL presumption of innocence.  She is not entitled to MY presumption of innocence.  Many of her crimes have already been exposed.

Aside from what Celfious has mentioned on her first day in office she received a two hour security briefing by the FBI. She was trained in how to recognize & handle classified information. She signed a form vowing to store classified material in authorized locations upon penalty if perjury.  Her home server was not an authorized location. She had over 2100 classified documents on her home server.  Each violation is a separate crime.  Some of those documents were so called "above top secret" that only a few people are authorized to have access to.  This is one of the rare times where intent does not matter.

Clinton also lied several times when testifying to Congress including saying she had turned over all work related emails.  Judicial Watch in it's deposition of Clinton aides found a number of work related emails Clinton did not turn over.  I would bet the FBI has been able to recover many or all deleted emails from the server itself though Clinton paid an aide to scrub the server.

Clinton deleted not only thousands of emails but many of her daily schedules, which is tied into selling influence.  Clinton's top aide, Abedin, already admitted to the schedule deletions in her deposition to Judicial Watch and public records reflect this.

Then there is the other matter of public corruption involving Clinton selling influence and being compensated through donations to the Clinton Foundation which looks to be a sham charity used as a private slush fund for the Clintons.

Remember, at least one of Clinton's aides has been granted immunity by the FBI.  We do not know about Abedi n or other aides or what Clinton herself said to the FBI. When the FBI asked Hillary questions in her 3.5 hour interrogation you can bet they already knew the correct answers.  If she was foolish enough to lie each lie was a crime.

Lynch was involved in representing the Clintons during White Water.  Bill Clinton appointed Lynch to be a federal judge.  Obama appointed Lynch to be USAG. Bill & Lynch had a meeting they tried to keep secret a week ago.  After the meeting came out Hillary said she wants to keep Lynch on in her possible administration.  A tangled mess of corruption.

Of course I expect that if Obama allows his puppet Lynch to bring charges against Hillary and possibly Bill Obama will just pardon them.

Obama is not going to want this to go to trial because he exchanged emails with Hillary so he knew about the private server.  Any person who has a security clearance who knows about mishandling of classified information is required by law to report it. If Hillary goes to trial Obama will be the first witness she calls.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 05, 2016 01:58 PM

Elodin said:
@JJ
Hillary is entitled to a LEGAL presumption of innocence.  She is not entitled to MY presumption of innocence.
Nothing beats a good witch-hunt, doesn't it?

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted July 05, 2016 02:04 PM

The resources put on that could've been put on investigating Donald "child-molester" Drumpf instead...

You know, the person who is ACTUALLY a criminal?
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