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blizzardman
Known Hero
Gay as an Easter Basket
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posted November 27, 2016 08:52 PM |
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It would have been hilarious if the elections were in fact hacked, but outside of the world of Hollywood movies and Marvel's Agents of Shield, there's no such thing as sitting at a computer and pushing buttons and magically getting into whatever system you want. Real life hacking necessities having people - more than one - on the inside to alter results or data. It technically isn't impossible, but it's very difficult to do because you need intimate internal knowledge of how the system works and everybody involved needs to be quiet: a single kink in the armor from somebody talking and everything falls apart.
If you want to understand why the polls were inaccurate with the election results, you need to understand this.
Look at Kiyru. If people just recklessly throw around words like "Nazi" without inhibitions, then that's going to create closet Trump supporters, and lots of them. So, one of the biggest recruitment tools for Trump, or for any anti-Establishment / nationalist party in any country, isn't necessarily going to be the supporters/ringleaders themselves: it's going to be mainstream sources treating the subject rudely/lazily.
If you want an anecdotal story about this, I remember on CNN during the night of the election when one of the speakers was talking about a guy at a pizza shop who also took informal data about who people were going to vote for. The person said that when he was asking people, he said there were a lot of "leaners". What he meant by that is that people who were voting for Hillary just said, "I'm voting for Hillary", but a lot of the Trump supporters were "leaners", meaning that they would lean into the counter and quietly tell him, "I think I'm voting for Trump".
There's that and the fact that turn-out from women and minorities weren't actually as slanted as people were saying. The Hispanic/Black vote was roughly proportional to the previous election (there was actually a higher Hispanic vote for Trump than Romney in 2012). That part I actually wasn't too surprised about. A lot of people don't realize that some of the most hardline immigration people are Hispanics themselves, or at least a concentrated group of them who have become established in the US. So they're not going to lean as far Democrat as the black community would, who are pretty much the property of the Democrats.
I was one of the many people who were fooled: I was anticipating a Democrat in the office once Trump was nominated, but I guess he played his cards right. Those votes from the Rust Belt states are what he needed to win and he got them.
What I'm hoping for now - and I think I'm right about - is that Trump isn't actually as crazy/extreme as what he made himself out to be during the primary & general elections. Stuff over Mexicans or Muslims are ultimately tertiary. What is going to matter most is how he handles trade, how he deals with China, and how he handles healthcare & education reform. I really hope he doesn't actually start a trade war.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 27, 2016 09:16 PM |
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Surely trade stuff is important but Trump, as every leader from now and worldwide was/will be elected primarily on his firm positions towards immigration and identity. This is one of the top concerns of a majority of people.
We just got in France a second ago the results of right party elections, thus the one who will probably lead us in a while -as the left is now under 15%, and both candidates had the same economic proposals, but the only difference was about immigration, Islam and identity. The one with a more aggressive policy won, and by an enormous margin (70/30), while his opponent was more experienced and had all the support of medias and artistic elites -he was given winner by all polls in the last 3 months.
History repeats and by this it shows that the world of today is animated by more complex commotions than only the wealthy comfort.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 27, 2016 09:18 PM |
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When it came to Sanders or Clinton to battle off vs. Trump I believed Sanders to be the ideological choice and Clinton to be the safe choice. Clinton is experienced, you know what you get, and I don't recall ever hearing anything about her being an awful choice during the democrats election. Not versus Sanders and not versus Obama either. I believe the idea that US was screwed either way first happened after Clinton was nominated.
But to get back to one of your points, I saw on TV on the night of the election (or the night before? Not sure about the time zones here and now) a reporter who had traveled to US and interviewed people who voted for either side.
I was so "lucky" as to drop in on an interview with this black guy who had been travelling across several states to tell people that if they voted for Trump then they were racist.
In my opinion antagonizing others has never been a way to reason with people, so while I may just have been unlucky with what I saw as I switched away due to the cringe level of what he said, there were definitely people out there campaigning for Clinton in an unfortunate fashion.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 27, 2016 09:49 PM |
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Identity politics can only become the main focus if you are already economically stable to a degree, most people can and will afford to sacrifice a little bit of wealth for ideological or cultural motives but if poverty and economic crisis hits with a crucial blow, then Maslow's pyramid will kick in, especially in developed countries where people are accustomed to a certain standard. So a nationalist or an isolationist who messes up the economy big will definitely lose votes.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 27, 2016 09:54 PM |
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Naturally, but also each civilized and industrially advanced country has an important apparatus controlling and regularizing the president actions (Congres in USA, Assemblé Nationale in France), so the chance that one man destroys a solid economy by taking one side poor decision is very slim, thus is not at all the main concern, at this moment at least.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 28, 2016 07:52 AM |
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So, 3 state will count the votes again based on some totally unknown candidate's complaint.  As if these elections are not a complete farce already.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 28, 2016 09:22 AM |
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted November 28, 2016 09:43 AM |
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By same logic, wouldn't have that Al Gore won the election against George Bush years ago?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 28, 2016 09:54 AM |
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@Sal
What kind of logic is that? It's not Clinton that is asking for a recount, it's some candidate from the Green Party. Besides, the recounts in the three states are said be "extremely unlikely" to change the outcome, so it's probably just some technicality.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 28, 2016 09:57 AM |
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@artu
You mean votes recount could lead to that green candidate victory? ^^
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted November 28, 2016 10:00 AM |
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No, I'm saying the recount wont change a thing and that's probably not their intention when demanding it.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 28, 2016 11:04 AM |
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I'm kind of curious what the intention of a no-chance candidate is, love for the democracy sounds a bit too fairy-tale-ish to me.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted November 28, 2016 01:15 PM |
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Anything for attention.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 28, 2016 02:00 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 14:01, 28 Nov 2016.
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I wonder why Salamandre wont retweet the Trump claim that "Millions voted Hillary illegally!!!!"  So hence he won the popular vote, in his mind.
This man is such a crybaby.
Hint: Recount is a legitimate thing. Baseless assertions the thing of the new President of United States.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 28, 2016 02:15 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
When it came to Sanders or Clinton to battle off vs. Trump I believed Sanders to be the ideological choice and Clinton to be the safe choice. Clinton is experienced, you know what you get, and I don't recall ever hearing anything about her being an awful choice during the democrats election. Not versus Sanders and not versus Obama either. I believe the idea that US was screwed either way first happened after Clinton was nominated.
Democrats are corrupted to the bone, throwing Sanders out of the picture was all to push Clinton forward, but if you dig on the Clinton family you will see Hilary ruling the US is anything but "safe".
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 28, 2016 02:59 PM |
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To say anyone is corrupted makes it difficult for me to take the post seriously.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted November 28, 2016 04:37 PM |
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Zenofex said:
I'm kind of curious what the intention of a no-chance candidate is, love for the democracy sounds a bit too fairy-tale-ish to me.
Follow the money. She is raising funds for the party (her)...nothing more.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted November 28, 2016 04:54 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
To say anyone is corrupted makes it difficult for me to take the post seriously.
But you need to man. Look up the old news about their Arkansas machine & Tyson-foods and the cocaine ring. And the stuff since then is far worse. How could you watch her testimony (and all the other party members before congress and not realize something is really bad behind the lies and evasions to Truth.
On another note; now that Trump is in, I worry if he will be free to act. What I mean is - I remember Obama before getting elected and the Prez he turned out to be is a far cry from what this nation thought he was going to be. (me too, i.e. Middle-East) That actually rather supports the idea that our "shadow-government" is no myth. Ftr, the CIA ignored Truman as the leader of the nation in some very costly ways - it may be much worse than that now. The fact that Bush Sr. was ex CIA never made me feel cozy, like Putin being ex KGB never has either. I'm giving Putin the benefit of the doubt because people can change but I still wonder at how renegade governments seem to be in so places today. Russia I don't know but the USA is no mystery for anyone who will bother to research and not read party-propaganda.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 28, 2016 10:21 PM |
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Minion said:
I wonder why Salamandre wont retweet the Trump claim that "Millions voted Hillary illegally!!!!" So hence he won the popular vote, in his mind.
heh, I didn't even know about Trump's tweet but I wasted a couple of minutes on a search, just to have the joy of shutting your arrogant mouth.
Voter ID laws in US
Strict photo ID required: Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wisconsin.[13]
Strict non-photo ID required: Arizona, North Dakota and Ohio.
Non-Strict photo ID required: Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Rhode Island, South Dakota and Texas.
Non-Strict non-photo ID required: Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Kentucky, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah, and Washington.
No ID required to vote at ballot box: California, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Vermont, West Virginia, Wyoming, and Washington, D.C.
So if one says Trump's votes should be recount because russians hackers (lol) went in, then Trump can say many illegals voted, as the system clearly allows that backdoor. Be fair guys and take it like a man, and if need for a proper definition, let me educate you. 
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 28, 2016 10:50 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 22:53, 28 Nov 2016.
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No one here cares about the stupid recount, lol. If Jill wants to spend her money on it then fine let her. In a democracy it is allowed fyi. I thougt you are pro democracy 
Trump claims are ridiculous at best but this is most likely what next 4 years will be unfortunately.
Edit. Oh I hadn't noticed Hillary got 2 million more votes. Thats almost half of my country 
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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