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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Politics in the U.S.
Thread: Politics in the U.S. This thread is 95 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 20 40 60 80 ... 91 92 93 94 95 · «PREV / NEXT»
Stevie
Stevie


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posted June 06, 2017 02:30 AM
Edited by Stevie at 02:31, 06 Jun 2017.

Artu, you do realize that those figures represent the total amount of pollution and temperature increase estimated since 1750, right? How is that more relevant or important to the present and the course of action that should be taken from now on than the emission per country in the past few years? You're arguing from the premise that the US polluted more than anyone else in total since the pre-industrial era. What Sal and I are saying is that China produces the most now.
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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 06, 2017 02:54 AM

Sal, in favor of Trump's idea of "a fair deal" objected to China and India not having any restrictions until 2021 (which is minutes by historical standards, it's 2017!) and I linked the percentage of global warming they caused so far overall, not to mention that China is 1.3 billion people while U.S. is only 320 million. So, China will have a significant carbon fingerprint on a purely arithmetic comparison with other countries no matter how many regulations they apply. So, backing down from an already signed deal with the excuse that "China and India are getting spoiled" is obnoxious and certainly not something  that would fall under the category of "reasonable."

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Stevie
Stevie


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posted June 06, 2017 04:29 AM
Edited by Stevie at 14:52, 06 Jun 2017.

He also said that they're receiving 1 billion each for fighting pollution when they have no restrictions to do so, that the 2021 date contravenes to the urgency of the global warming issue, and that Trump wants to renegotiate and not back out of the deal. Are we giving each other a rundown of what's been said on the last page now? What I wanted to know is why you brought up a statistic that ultimately raises no valid point to the conversation, but is rather there only to serve as a basis for the rhetoric: "look at what your America did for the past 250 years, Trump, you shouldn't be the one to talk or ask for anything". Centuries in which little was known about the human influence on global warming, if I might add, unlike today. Let's not delude ourselves that this is solely about global warming either.

China's population is a problem itself, so is India's. Which is funny, because China in recent years allowed population control of 2 children per family instead of 1. The capita is not the problem, instead the main problem is that they produce 30% of the global pollution recorded yearly. When you look at the high population you can at best get an understanding of why that is, but I wouldn't use it as an excuse. The USA has problems of their own, no one says they don't. They still contribute a lot to what ends up in the atmosphere, especially if you look at their capita. If they had China's, they'd be at less than half their current amount of pollution.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


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posted June 06, 2017 08:52 AM

Guys, I don't think Trump should have backed the accord, but instead renegotiate it from scratch. I don't think France should leave the EU but instead renegotiate the points which hurt the most our economy and identity. However I understand when politicians choose to say just NO to such scams treaties who are there only to juice our taxpayers in favor of others from abroad. If I was American, I would find worrisome that in the 21th century my taxes are used to flow money to China, India or whatever other bad student of the classroom, or used to fill Israel military so it can process to further colonization, while NO responsible actions are required in return. Why should USA pay 3 billion dollars (that's YOU, your earned work) to China and India, please answer me. Same thing about Europeans, this Paris deal set them to flow money to some Africa countries and I am just tired of this marxist wealth redistribution scam, it just never ends.


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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 06, 2017 10:26 AM

Quote:
Are we giving each other a rundown of what's been said on the last page now? What I wanted to know is why you brought up a statistic that ultimately raises no valid point to the conversation, but is rather there only to serve as a basis for the rhetoric: "look at what your America did for the past 250 years, Trump, you shouldn't be the one to talk or ask for anything".

Well, if you don't want people to repeat the last page, don't ask them about the obvious. Needless to say(!), if your argument is about who should be compromising what on a deal about restrictions to prevent global warming, the very recent history of global warming and your contribution is a valid point by itself. And you can't be telling developing countries to drop developing completely when you have all the advantage and leverage of early industrialization yourself. Trying to portray Trump as someone who's just seeking his countries' rights is so out of touch with reality and so victimizes Trump and his snowed up rhetoric, if one didn't know any better, they'd thought you were talking about Bolivia or something. Poor Americans with two giant cars the size of a minivan per family, what do they have to do with all this! Considering its population and consumption habits (hence, per capita stuff matters), U.S. is the biggest contributer to global warming and Trump tries to "renegotiate" when there had already been consensus, the deal was already something that had been negotiated. The issue is global, urgent and the economy is also global and it is also part of capitalist agendas and investments that India and China should keep on developing, not only their nationalist agendas, so things are what they are.  


@Sal

You talk about it as if it is charity but it is not. The economy is global for some time now and it is the U.S. and the dollar that had benefited from this for so long. (Not directly the average citizen in all cases naturally.) When such money flows between countries it is foremost about creating markets and capital rather than humanitarian reasons and as far as I know, China also constantly gives money to the U.S. Money flows between countries all the time and it is seldom without an agenda other than humanitarian reasons. The bottomline is Trump backs out openly saying "it is bad for American jobs" as I already stated in my first post. He is referring to the coal industry while saying that. Trying to preserve coal industry the way it is, has nothing to do with the complex nature of money flow between China and U.S. Look how things went before he made his announcement:

The newly elected French president, Emmanuel Macron, went first. It makes sense that the Frenchman would defend the international treaty that bears the name of France's capital: The Paris Agreement. "Climate change is real and it affects the poorest countries," Macron said.

Then, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau reminded the U.S. president how successful the fight against the ozone hole had been and how it had been possible to convince industry leaders to reduce emissions of the harmful gas.

Finally, it was Merkel's turn. Renewable energies, said the chancellor, present significant economic opportunities. "If the world's largest economic power were to pull out, the field would be left to the Chinese," she warned. Xi Jinping is clever, she added, and would take advantage of the vacuum it created. Even the Saudis were preparing for the post-oil era, she continued, and saving energy is also a worthwhile goal for the economy for many other reasons, not just because of climate change.

So let's look at those arguments. Macron made an appeal to Trump's sense of intellect (obviously a bad idea) and compassion (oh boy...). Trudeau appealed to Trump's sense of history (yikes). Merkel, the savviest of the bunch, went in a different direction. She appealed to Trump's ego—his image of himself as a brilliant businessman and his desire to "win" at all costs. "You wouldn't want the Chinese to win, would you, Donald?" Obviously, this was the only path that even had a chance, but in the end, Donald couldn't, just once, do the right thing. Nope. Donald reportedly said that even though staying in the deal was easier, he was going to leave because the agreement was hurting the economy's ability to create jobs.

Interesting. Is that true? Well, tough to say. On one hand, noted dummy Donald Trump says it is, while on the other, actual experts say "the agreement would likely help create about as many jobs in renewable energy as it might cost in polluting industries." So for no reason, Donald Trump didn't listen to our allies and then tried to embarrass them in a weirdly confrontational press event. So not only is the world going to burn to a crisp, but we'll have no friends internationally to commiserate with when it does.


Sticking to the archaic coal industry at the price of antagonising the whole world, and doing that while 7 out of 10 of your own citizens support staying in, I mean, there's really not much that needs to be said here.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted June 06, 2017 12:37 PM

Salamandre said:
Also I hate the pack attitude, when I see 99% of people attacking on one, I always side withe that one. Sorry, this just lights something in my head, I can't do else.


But doesn't that bear the risk of supporting a true villain?
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted June 06, 2017 01:35 PM

It's a useless discussion anyway. You just can't have COUNTRIES (because that's what we are talking about) cancel deals, just because another guy becomes head of the executive. That's not the way international politics work, simply because they cannot work if you can't rely on a deal being still a deal when they change.
THAT is the elephant here, Trump saying, guys, I don't like what my predecessor did, so screw it. He may try to "renegotiate" - but WITHIN the deal, not after canceling it first.

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artu
artu


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My BS sensor is tingling again
posted June 06, 2017 01:46 PM

I think Trump's mentality about that part is something like, "hey, we're the United States of America, they'll have to go along with us anyway." I don't think he realizes the difference between running a state and running a business and perceives what he does as some kind of "aggressive entrepreneurship." That is extremely problematic, of course, even economically authoritarian.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 06, 2017 02:29 PM

Exactly.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Elvin's Lightside
posted June 06, 2017 09:01 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 21:12, 06 Jun 2017.

What it is, is a wake up call that if the US is going to have continuity over this issue, next time it needs to be ratified by Congress, so when a executive unilaterally decides for the entire country to change American involvement in a major policy, it can't happen through a single executive decision. It would need to go through Congress.

The reason this happened is because when Obama attended and signed on last year, it never got around to being ratified by Congress (not that that was really his fault), therefore it was within the current president's legal power to revoke an agreement made by a previous president. It was signed, but on a federal level, it was never sealed. A president is not tied to executive decisions made by a previous president. They can be undone at will unless Congress makes it law/treaty.

Fortunately, state and local governments can pass their own initiatives to meet or exceed the Agreement. It is fully within their legal power to act independently in this way, even if it can't be in an identical official capacity, i.e. states do not and cannot have their own embassies.
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Kayna
Kayna


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posted June 07, 2017 03:15 PM

Trump is merely expressing the US government's previous secret but not so secret attitude. You guys put too much credit in the presidents. They're puppets.

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JollyJoker
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posted June 07, 2017 04:22 PM

*drawls* Maniacs don't make no good puppets.

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Kayna
Kayna


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posted June 07, 2017 10:26 PM
Edited by Kayna at 22:27, 07 Jun 2017.

To understand how the US establishment keeps control while giving us the illusion of freedom, you need to know what the establishment really cares about, and what it doesn't really cares about. Then, it pretends to care about more stuff than they really do. As long as the president doesn't joke around with the things the establishment really cares about, he can do whatever he wants with the rest, and that gives us the illusion that the president has a lot of power and that each president can make a meaningful change.

The US establishment only cares about survival related things. Who tries to get nukes, who dares defy the petro dollar scam, etc. They don't care about domestic issues like abortion, and... well, most other domestic issues for that matter. They only temporarily care about such issues to get votes when its election time.

I'm fairly certain that if Trump is backing out of environmental agreements, it's because the establishment either asked him to do so or doesn't care about it.

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fred79
fred79


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posted June 07, 2017 11:41 PM

Kayna said:
I'm fairly certain that if Trump is backing out of environmental agreements, it's because the establishment either asked him to do so or doesn't care about it.


it's because he's the head of corporate america(now, anyways). and big business really dislike pesky restrictions like "environmental hazard control". they'd rather be free to make more money, by spending less on things that make for a cleaner environment, instead of being allowed to spew unrefined waste from their factories/brains. i mean, look who he has appointed, all around him. it should be obvious what he represents.

and the usual government(and their controlled mass-media) are doing what they can to strike him down, because he represents the other(read, opposing) side of the massively-corrupt cluster of monsters running the u.s.: the corporate side.

NOT that he's good, mind you(or worthy of anything other than a rocketship to the sun). i wouldn't defend him or his cohorts, any more than i would defend the other side of those demons at the helm: the government and all their little agencies(which the corporate half of the demon now has it's hands on, directly; as opposed to when they were merely an influence in the past).


(ok, now i'm done. for real this time. )

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Elvin's Lightside
posted June 10, 2017 12:26 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 01:52, 10 Jun 2017.

Anyway.

It's good other countries in the summit have stood their ground and said renegotiation won't happen. When the US rejoins a few years down the road the original agreement will be intact and the transition ought to be relatively quick.
International politics are still slow but not as sluglike as even 10 years ago. The French election helped with that solidarity.
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fred79
fred79


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posted July 03, 2017 09:20 PM
Edited by fred79 at 21:28, 03 Jul 2017.

reflections of a governement that does not care about you

Quote:
RENTON, N.J. — Gov. Chris Christie got blistered online Monday after he was photographed sunning himself on a New Jersey beach that he had closed to the public over the Fourth of July weekend because of a government shutdown.

Commenters mocked the governor as selfish and arrogant and cracked wise about the sight of the heavyset Christie in a beach chair in sandals, shorts and a T-shirt. The photo soon found itself inserted into an Oval Office picture and scenes from "Planet of the Apes," ''From Here to Eternity" and "The Sopranos."

   In this Sunday, July 2, 2017, photo, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, right, uses the beach with his family and friends at the governor's summer house at Island Beach State Park in New Jersey. Christie is defending his use of the beach, closed to the public during New Jersey's government shutdown, saying he had previously announced his vacation plans and the media had simply "caught a politician keeping his word." (Andrew Mills/NJ Advance Media via AP)

   A sign hangs from a barricade at the entrance to Liberty State Park, which remains closed due to the New Jersey government shutdown, Saturday, July 1, 2017, in Jersey City., N.J. Gov. Chris Christie and the Democrat-led Legislature are set to return to work to try to resolve the state's first government shutdown since 2006 and the first under Christie. The Republican governor and the Democrat-led Legislature failed to reach an agreement on a new budget by the deadline at midnight Friday. Christie ordered nonessential services, including state parks and the motor vehicle commission to close beginning Saturday. Remaining open under the shutdown will be New Jersey Transit, state prisons, the state police, state hospitals and treatment centers as well as casinos, race tracks and the lottery. (AP Photo/Julio Cortez)

   In this Sunday, July 2, 2017, photo, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie uses the beach with his family and friends at the governor's summer house at Island Beach State Park in New Jersey. Christie is defending his use of the beach, closed to the public during New Jersey's government shutdown, saying he had previously announced his vacation plans and the media had simply "caught a politician keeping his word." (Andrew Mills/NJ Advance Media via AP)

Christie defended his visit to the shore, saying that he had previously announced his plans to vacation at the state-owned governor's beach house and that the media had simply "caught a politician keeping his word."

The deeply unpopular Republican was photographed Sunday by NJ.com at Island Beach State Park. He and his family had the sun and sand all to themselves.

"I didn't get any sun today," Christie told reporters at a news conference later in the day in Trenton. Then, when told of the photos, his spokesman told NJ.com that what the governor said was true because Christie was wearing a baseball hat.

Christie, who is heading into his final six months in office with his approval rating at an abysmal 15 percent, was lambasted for what many saw as a let-them-eat-cake gesture by the state's chief executive.

"Taxpayers can't use the parks and other public sites they pay for, but he and his family can hang out at a beach that no one else can use?" asked Mary Jackson, a Freehold resident walking through a mostly empty downtown near the Capitol in Trenton. "Doesn't he realize how that looks, how people will see it as a slap in the face?"

Online, one user joked that Christie was promoting the state's whale-watching industry. Another shared video of a simulated tsunami, saying it was the aftermath of Christie jumping into the water.

Others likened the beach closing to the 2013 scheme by Christie allies to close lanes and cause huge traffic jams at the George Washington Bridge. Some said Christie was trying to outdo President Donald Trump in low approval ratings.

"SON OF A BEACH," screamed London's Daily Mail.

Christie's lieutenant governor, who is running in November to succeed him, said Christie's beach time was "beyond words."

"If I were governor, I sure wouldn't be sitting on the beach if taxpayers didn't have access to state beaches," said Republican Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagano.

Christie ordered a shutdown of nonessential state services over the holiday weekend — including parks, beaches and motor vehicle offices — after he and the Democratic-controlled legislature were unable to agree on a budget to start the new fiscal year.

The sticking point is Christie's demand that Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield be overhauled so that the state can tap into the nonprofit insurer's surplus to finance drug treatment.

Christie has blamed a top Democratic lawmaker for the shutdown, with the state plastering CLOSED signs at parks with Assembly Speaker Vincent Prieto's picture and office phone number.

"That's the way it goes," Christie said Saturday about his family's use of the beach home. "Run for governor, and you can have the residence."

Later, after he was photographed on the beach, he sarcastically called it a "great bit of journalism."

"They actually caught a politician being where he said he was going to be with the people he said he was going to be with, his wife and children and their friends," Christie said in an interview with the New York Fox TV station. "I am sure they will get a Pulitzer for this one."

Christie's ratings were thrown into a nosedive by the bridge scandal, his own run for president and his support for Trump. In the past year, he was passed over for vice president, demoted as Trump's transition chairman, and denied a top-level administration post of his liking.

But Christie regularly says that the only time popularity counts is when you're running for something — and he's not. "I don't care," he said recently when asked about the fall in his ratings.

Among those affected by the shutdown were Cub Scouts forced to leave a state campsite and people trying to obtain or renew motor vehicle documents. Liberty State Park was closed, forcing the suspension of ticket sales and ferry service to the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. But the two sites remained open.

Prisons, state police, state hospitals and New Jersey's bus and commuter railroad remain open. The vast majority of beaches are open as well, since most are controlled not by the state but by towns up and down New Jersey's 130 miles of coastline.

Christie on Monday morning began retweeting posts by some of those towns promoting their beaches.

"Come and enjoy them," the governor tweeted, "but use sunscreen and hydrate."


==================

and, this guy wants you to be submissive and run from criminals

Quote:


MIAMI — Florida's updated "Stand Your Ground" self-defense law is unconstitutional, a Miami judge ruled on Monday.

Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Milton Hirsch ruled that lawmakers overstepped their authority in creating the law this year that forces prosecutors to disprove a defendant's self-defense claim at a pre-trial hearing.

The judge ruled that under Florida's constitution, that change should have been crafted by the Florida Supreme Court, not the Legislature.

"As a matter of constitutional separation of powers, that procedure cannot be legislatively modified," Hirsch wrote in a 14-page order.

The ruling is a victory for prosecutors who have firmly opposed the law they believe makes it easier for defendants to get away with murder and other violent crime.

   Person shopping for guns.
   Florida Governor Rick Scott walks with other politicians as he stops by the Jose F. Caragol Jr. Emergency Operations Center on the first day of Hurricane season on June 1, 2016 in Hialeah, Florida. The governor made the stop to encourage residents to prepare for the hurricane season and have a plan of action if a hurricane makes it to Florida this year.
   A reflection of an American flag is seen on a side a vehicle during the "Stand Your Ground" rally opposed to the shooting death of Robert �LaVoy� Finicum organized by the Pacific Patriots Network in Burns, Oregon January 30, 2016.

The law, an update to the already controversial "Stand Your Ground" statute passed over a decade ago, was pushed by the politically powerful National Rifle Association. Gov. Rick Scott signed the new law into effect in last month.

First passed in 2005, Florida's controversial self-defense law has been criticized for fostering a shoot-first mentality -- and giving killers a pass at justice. The law eliminated a citizen's duty to retreat before using deadly force to counter an apparent threat.

More problematic for prosecutors, the law made it easier for judges — before ever getting to a jury — to dismiss criminal charges if they deem someone acted in self-defense.

The Florida Supreme Court later ruled that defendants, in asking for immunity from criminal prosecution, must be the ones to prove they were acting in self-defense.

In Miami-Dade, judges have thrown several high-profile murder cases after pre-trial immunity hearings, but have also allowed many more to go to a jury.

But the NRA-backed bill, passed in May despite fierce opposition by prosecutors and gun-control advocates, upended the legal framework.

Now, at those pre-trial hearings, prosecutors shoulder the burden of disproving a defendant's self-defense claim. State Attorneys contended that it essentially forces them to unfairly to try the case twice, making it easier for criminals to skate on violent charges.

Under the law, prosecutors must prove by "clear and convincing" evidence that a defendant was not acting in self-defense.

Hirsch ruled on the case of Liletha Rutherford, who is accused of aggravated assault for pulling a gun on a couple during an argument, and Omar Rodriguez, the so-called "Neighbor from Hell" who shot and killed a man after a confrontation over dog poop.

The separate immunity hearings will still be held in the coming weeks — but it will be up to Rutherford and Rodriguez to prove their self-defense claims.

Hirsch's ruling likely sets up legal wrangling in the appellate courts, and the Florida Supreme Court.

It was not surprising that Hirsch was the first to weigh in on the new law. Since becoming a judge in 2010, he's often ruled on broader legal issues that sometimes upend conventional norms.

Earlier this year, the judge ruled that Miami-Dade County's inmate detention policy, spurred by President Donald Trump's threats to withhold funding, violated the constitution.

Last year, Hirsch also ruled that a new death-penalty sentencing structure was unconstitutional, a decision that later proved prescient — the Florida Supreme Court ruled the same months later.

In 2012, Hirsch ruled that prosecutors could not say a fingerprint found at a crime scene was a controversial match, a decision later overturned by an appeals court.

When a Tampa federal judge ruled in 2011 that Florida's drug law was unconstitutional, Hirsch was the only local state judge to follow suit. He tossed out more than two dozen cases, but Miami's appeals court later reversed Hirsch's decision.

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


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posted July 03, 2017 09:27 PM

I hope all the heads of the fake media hydra will be chopped, one after another, methodically, and with razor blade precision.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Elvin's Lightside
posted July 04, 2017 01:18 AM

This is why conspiracy theories aren't a victimless crime.

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fred79
fred79


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posted July 04, 2017 10:08 AM

carried over from the vw, referring to trump:

Kipshasz said:
Still better than that cucked, dying hag.


i think they're both equally rotten, inside and out. i most likely would have voted for bernie(had i been dumb enough to vote for these villains at all); simply because his tract record appeared to show that he was actually FOR the people. he still seems like a man of decent principle; despite the fact of where he comes from, and who he currently represents. his loyalty seems to be at odds, regarding his party; and the people of this nation. out of all the heads in washington atm, he is the one i trust the most.*

*and, i STILL don't trust him. because of where he sits, and where he comes from. in a predatory and cut-throat high society that is run like a cold-hearted business(which it is, really), you don't get to be at(or near), the top unless you're either a puppet, or the worst of all of them.

which is why i found obama so confusing. he seemed to be a real outsider among them. the question is, who's going to placate the nation AFTER trump? who's going to be the next obama? certainly not hillary. dear god, i snowing HOPE not. might as well have the wicked witch of the west at the helm.

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verriker
verriker


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Walterwin Mitty
posted August 16, 2017 10:09 PM
Edited by verriker at 23:02, 16 Aug 2017.

alt-right antisemite Brexit confederate conservative cuck Farage fascist Hitler immigrant KKK Le Pen misogynist neo-nazi Pence political correctness populism racist republican sexist Scaramouche Sessions snowflake Spicer Thatcher tory Trump white nationalist white supremacist lol

have at it lads, make a verriker great again lol
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