|
| Thread: Why are there so many bad skill speciallists? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
posted September 21, 2014 03:39 PM |
|
|
Sal said:
That's for the maps played today. For open and skirmish small/medium maps, magic heroes are still a must. Elementalists with 7-8 magic arrows in mana pool are a nightmare to fight so early.
From what I've been observing in Twitch, Luna cannot be a late game main but it can still make a huge difference, allowing you to explore two different directions at the same time, one with the army in a might hero the other with her, wich bring us more close to other games where the magic heroes can't carry so bigger armies as might ones.
I think this would work also in those open and skirmish maps, even if I don't know what u are talking about. (Were they produced by different templates or are in fact custom maps? Can u give me an example? Thank you.)
|
|
Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
|
|
posted September 22, 2014 10:03 AM |
|
|
maretti said:
Usefull yes, overpowered no. There are so many better heroes than elementalists.
I must agree with Maretti here. People seem to think that just because the heroes come from Conflux and/or start with magic, they are over the top. Grindan for example is one of those characters. He is ofc handy,especially with expert earth magic at lv3. But he is not exactly the best "main" hero. I rather take offense, armorer or even a creature specialist like Marius instead. Not to mention a barbarian or beastmaster.
On a side note: Luna is certainly a hero that stands out from the others. Minding that she can clear almost every slow-medium ground walker with the right terrain/power&knowledge and a bit of luck.
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 22, 2014 01:51 PM |
|
|
Ebonheart said:
Luna is certainly a hero that stands out from the others. Minding that she can clear almost every slow-medium ground walker with the right terrain/power&knowledge and a bit of luck.
Yesterday I saw a match betwen Maretti and HellLight that perfectly illustrated the power of Luna early game and also the major weaknesses of magic heroes versus might heroes. Here are the links if someone wants to see them
http://www.twitch.tv/maretti0/b/570831409
http://www.twitch.tv/helllight111/b/570830832
|
|
Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
|
|
posted September 22, 2014 01:57 PM |
|
|
Magic heroes aren't good overall but they do have their moments. Mostly in the early game or when there's more than 4+ players playing a match vs eachother on a large map. Due to potential spells like fly (and in private games DD).
Luna is more of a "chess" hero. If you can play the game, she is even better than a might hero (vs the map's walkers ofc).
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 22, 2014 02:49 PM |
|
|
Ebonheart said:
I rather take offense, armorer or even a creature specialist like Marius instead.
Since the talk was on Conflux anyway and speaking of creature specialists, I think it's pretty amazing that despite a massive bonus of +5 damage (Thunar & Erdamon), the Magma Element is still the weakest units for its level.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
|
|
posted September 22, 2014 10:11 PM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
Since the talk was on Conflux anyway and speaking of creature specialists, I think it's pretty amazing that despite a massive bonus of +5 damage (Thunar & Erdamon), the Magma Element is still the weakest units for its level.
I swear you're the reason for why we never got a Gremlin specialist, you probably stung him in his sleeping alpha period.
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 23, 2014 12:18 AM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
Ebonheart said:
I rather take offense, armorer or even a creature specialist like Marius instead.
Since the talk was on Conflux anyway and speaking of creature specialists, I think it's pretty amazing that despite a massive bonus of +5 damage (Thunar & Erdamon), the Magma Element is still the weakest units for its level.
And Air/storm the strongest... All elementals were originaly ment to be betwen level 3 and 4 but went from 2 to 5 for the Master of Elements campaign. Wich was almost ok, if it had stayed there.
Conflux is not balanced in any sense (including level 5 being a level 4 creature) because their presence in SoD just the result of 3DO greedy agenda. And by that time we tought they were the lower of the crap. After that they bankrupt and now we got Ubi instead.
Oh! how I miss those greedy talented snows...
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 23, 2014 01:11 PM |
|
|
|
IIRC, even as level 4 units (as they were in RoE), Elementals are weak for their level. As third level units they do O.K. Most hp for their level, but other stats often betray them, such as speed. While the Storm Elemental is the strongest for its level and the Energy elemental (or perhaps it's Pegasi, I don't remember) are the weakest for their level, the Ice Elementals are not the strongest, but rather good for their level (Griffin's, Dogs, maybe others such as Elves, can't remember, are on par or better, depending on the situation).
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted September 23, 2014 05:48 PM |
|
|
bloodsucker said:
Conflux is not balanced in any sense (including level 5 being a level 4 creature) because their presence in SoD just the result of 3DO greedy agenda. And by that time we tought they were the lower of the crap. After that they bankrupt and now we got Ubi instead.
Oh! how I miss those greedy talented snows...
Greedy? Wasn't it rushed because people didn't want Forge in the game and they needed a faction for the expansion?
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 24, 2014 01:11 AM |
|
|
LizardWarrior said:
Greedy? Wasn't it rushed because people didn't want Forge in the game and they needed a faction for the expansion?
Ok, different PoVs. I say greedy because they didn't took the time to create another town with all the testing it would need.
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 24, 2014 01:44 AM |
|
|
I'm not sure they'd the time. I thought it could be seen as greedy in the sense they unleashed a product beyond the quality they were known for, in stead of postponing the release.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 24, 2014 05:03 PM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
I'm not sure they'd the time. I thought it could be seen as greedy in the sense they unleashed a product beyond the quality they were known for, in stead of postponing the release.
yeah, that's what I ment.
Other absurd skill specialty is Fortune. What bonus can that give? Specialy if hero already cames with luck. Melodia wins the "Worst Specialty Award".
|
|
Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
|
|
posted September 24, 2014 08:17 PM |
|
|
bloodsucker said:
OhforfSake said:
I'm not sure they'd the time. I thought it could be seen as greedy in the sense they unleashed a product beyond the quality they were known for, in stead of postponing the release.
yeah, that's what I ment.
Other absurd skill specialty is Fortune. What bonus can that give? Specialy if hero already cames with luck. Melodia wins the "Worst Specialty Award".
Nah that reward goes to Daremyth.
But imo Luck in HoMM 3 would be better designed if it gave a chance to take double damage, like in HoMM 4. That would make more sense to me.
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 24, 2014 08:43 PM |
|
|
Well, for many level 1 units, it averages out to double damage. The way I see it, for any unit with damage of 1 to x, where x is the maximum damage, the average is (1 + x)/2. Since luck (I believe) means dealing max damage + 1 = 1 + x, you deal in average double damage with your low level units, as long as their minimum damage is 1. 
But that's a minor point for most parts of the game, so I agree, either they should simply roll for damage and multiply it by 2, or have a steady damage, such as max + min, which would also be double damage for units where min damage = max damage.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 24, 2014 09:35 PM |
|
|
Ebonheart said:
Nah that reward goes to Daremyth.
No way, without expert luck Fortune is still a valid spell. The problem is that when u get expert luck, maybe at level 3 or 4 if Melodia doesn't get usefull secdundary options, the spell becames completly useless cause u can't get more then +3 of luck. A Daremyth with expert air and no luck can make Fortune work very well, even if we would probably cast haste instead...
|
|
kicferk
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 25, 2014 08:29 AM |
|
|
OhforSake, I think luck works a bit differently 
To be precise, it adds 1 base damage to the damage the unit deals. So it's less visible when you have a large attack advantage, but very vivible when opponent has huge defense, as it is not affected by these fectors.
Still, Daremyth is clearly one of the worst specialists.
|
|
Sal
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 25, 2014 08:46 AM |
|
|
In 300 Spartans map there is a quest where Queen Gorgo has to win a poker card game. The chance to win depends on her luck, so she first has to get it to expert then visit all luck boosters on the map, to reach 10+ (100%).
Fun how wog can propose issues for any bad skill.
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 25, 2014 03:07 PM |
|
|
Sal said:
In 300 Spartans map there is a quest where Queen Gorgo has to win a poker card game. The chance to win depends on her luck, so she first has to get it to expert then visit all luck boosters on the map, to reach 10+ (100%).
Fun how wog can propose issues for any bad skill.
I think it's how it works also in "tavern card game", at least in TDS. Since I never got so far in 300 I'm not sure if we are talking about the same feature.
Also the chance to get mithril as resource from heroes with expert Estates can be over 3, at least is what is said in the tooltips but I think I read it's not how it really works.
|
|
Sal
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 25, 2014 04:08 PM |
|
|
|
Yep, chance to get daily mithril is equal to your luck (estates II script). It is possible to raise luck to 10 using map boosters also.
|
|
heroes_player
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 28, 2014 11:01 PM |
|
|
In my opinion Melodia is not that bad because with so many luck boosts she can visit many map objects without worries like Pyramids which have been cleared before etc... Also, the Devils decrease the luck by 1 which will affect to heroes who do have any luck boosts, so the Devils are harmful to her unlike to others who are not infected by Devils at all 
|
|
|
|
