|
|
sobaka770
Hired Hero
|
posted June 04, 2016 11:58 PM |
|
|
TD said:
sobaka770 said:
It's just not a good multiplayer design. The duel with preperly balanced creatures should be the main multiplayer mode for competitive, it has a lot of potential.
To be honest I think that should be the main multiplayer mode. The problem I have though is that you can't customize the army/heroes properly, but rather pick from pre-made which essentially makes it rock-paper-scissors in very extreme way. Just make each creature cost X amount of points, hero levels cost Y points, artifacts and spells cost Z amount and so forth. Give players actual freedom to build their army with agreed limit between players, you could maybe even buy a battle-field of your choosing. The current form is IMO extremely dull, it's even worse than h6 duels which were bad even by themselves...
Oh absolutely, kind of like Total War works. It just requires some balance in terms of pricing, but should be such a no-brainer...
|
|
Kimarous
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 03:34 AM |
|
|
Zeki said:
Kimarous said:
LucPatenaude said:
What the heck is the federal government of Canada, once all of ministries' computers go permnently down for the count, will do? It is on Win. XP systems, still. Have you thought of the huge consequences that could bring to this very young country? If I get to think too hard about it, I am afraid of going totally nuts.
Not sure if that's what you're asking, but from what I've heard from the grapevine from my mother (a government employee), the Canadian government has plans (or maybe a straight-up deal with Microsoft) to update all their computers to the next OS system that follows Windows 10. So, the presumed Windows 11 system - immediate update to that upon release. At least, that's what I've heard.
Wasn't Win10 supposed to be the last Windows? Anyways I don't really see how that has anything to do with Heroes but whatever.. xD
Neither do I, but he asked, so I answered. As for 10 being the last version of Windows, I've heard nothing of the sort and I sincerely doubt that will be the case. Technology is ever evolving, after all.
|
|
etore
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 07:16 AM |
|
|
Almost 5 pages of H3 vs H5 in a Heroes 7 discussion thread.
|
|
frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 09:10 AM |
|
|
etore said:
Almost 5 pages of H3 vs H5 in a Heroes 7 discussion thread.
That tells a lot about H7 
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
|
|
Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 09:31 AM |
|
Edited by Gryphs at 09:32, 05 Jun 2016.
|
etore said:
Almost 5 pages of H3 vs H5 in a Heroes 7 discussion thread.
Do not forget the windows discussion. H7 really is rapturous, huh? 
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 10:16 AM |
|
|
etore said:
Almost 5 pages of H3 vs H5 in a Heroes 7 discussion thread.
That's because H7 multiplayer is almost non-existent and H6 didn't even catch on.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Kimarous
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 10:44 AM |
|
|
Well, tying into the "H3 vs H5" discussion, something I noticed was that a number of people were talking strictly in gameplay terms as to why they preferred one game over the other. Now before you go "Well, duh", realize that people play games for different reasons. Not all of us are here for the challenge of it all. Some of us aren't competitive. Some don't care about online.
Ultimately, that's why I'm willing to side with H7. I'm not concerned about how good the multiplayer scene is. I don't play on the harder difficulties. Heck, I typically don't play against more than one AI at a time. I'm here more for the aesthetics than anything else.
I'm probably going to be looked at as an idiot for this, but I like to immerse myself in the setting. I like to imagine life in the world. When viewing the townscreens, I look at structures and envision the goings-on within. I picture how the "creature" units operate, both on the field and on their off-time. I ponder the life of civilians and how their children (if applicable) play. I like to imagine that stack of 167 Skeletons or such as a regiment that size instead of just one unit with a few numbers attached. Probably silliest of all, but I like to envision myself in the setting - typically as a high authority figure with all the perks that entails, naturally, but that's what I do. That's why I play. That, to me, is Heroes.
I'm not saying that I don't appreciate the game proper, of course. Heck, I haven't even gotten H7 itself because of certain stupid elements present in the current build - stupid elements that are allegedly being fixed in Trial By Fire, hence my enthusiasm. Ironed out, taking away stupid class restrictions (at least in terms of skill progression) and adding an in-game RMG (in my eyes, the lifeblood of strategy games) and Heroes VII, with all its aesthetic elements (that I like), is the best instalment in the series for me.
As for the earlier games, including the venerated Heroes III itself... sorry, but as good as Heroes III is, I just can't get invested in the world on the same level that I can with Ashan. I've played none of the old Might & Magic RPGs and I don't think I'd enjoy their gameplay even if I wanted to. Consequently, I know very little of the "Ancient" universe of Enroth, Axeoth, Xeen, and whatever else is out there. It's why I've complained in the past that, as someone who's seemingly only experienced the fringe of the old setting, it feels lacking in lore. It's not, as I realize now, but it's not as clearly documented or accessible. I know the wiki (not the HC one, the other one) is trying to change that, but that doesn't help me in the present.
Regardless, the TLDR version of this little ramble of mine is "Kimarous plays mostly for aesthetics, Ashan's aesthetics mostly appeal to him, and that's why he supports H7 regardless of gameplay flaws."
|
|
yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 10:48 AM |
|
|
lol omg it should be a requirement to play a 4+ player game of h3 before joining these forums. you ppl have no idea what jvc+ gave us
the core mechanical systems of the homm games are inherently multiplayer by design. whether the players are human or computer is a simple toggle on the game creation screen. they are the mp m&m games. mp rpg's - sandboxes for telling stories, which grow exponentially more intriguing with each additional contributing imagination. heroes 3 offers 6 methods for mp right out of the box, not to mention the map editor! the single player experience is just the beginning.
my earlier suggestion warrants repeating: play w/ a group & forge an alliance or two. utilize the kingdom overview, market place, and thieves guild. negotiate, trade, barter, backstab, play diplomatically..
there are plenty of ways to be meddlesome if you want.
natalka, LizardWarrior, and artu made some great points above too.
the multiplayer community is the heart and soul of this franchise, we may not be a very big part of the body, but the multiplayer arena is the proving grounds for the quality of a heroes game.
h3 mp isnt the best because it has a large player base, it has a large player base because its the best. the numbers have spoken. if something better comes along, we'll play that.
for me its simple - ux. the ui and presentation in heroes 3 allow me to effortlessly breeze through turns; h5 takes f o r e v e r.
 ideally we could play multiplayer strategic maps pbem, and 1 on 1 tactical duels live. gogo ubi wtf u waiting for
____________
yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 10:52 AM |
|
|
@Kimarous
You know immersion and aesthetics is important to me too, I've always said it's 50-50 between visuals and gameplay, both need to deliver, and as far as I'm concerned, sadly, h7 delivers neither.
____________
|
|
natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 10:59 AM |
|
|
|
Speaking from my last game. I play on XL+U map so very big. First PvP interraction was on 135. From this day on all my actions on all heroes have different charge. And this game wont end soon maybe 1-2 weeks more. So 2/5 of the time PVP interraction is quite good
|
|
Kimarous
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 11:10 AM |
|
|
@yogi
I come from a background with few to no friends, where the few friends I thought I had cruelly turned on me and the only ones after that were more "friends of my brother" than my own. Yeah, I played hotseat back in the day, but that was never more than two or three players maximum (myself, my brother, and possibly the friend of his that actually introduced us to H3; as in, our copy was pirated from his). That said, that was way back in the day. I don't think my brother even thinks of the series anymore, let alone plays it. So domestically, multiplayer is out of the question.
As for online with strangers... well, 98% of the time, "multiplayer with strangers" in ANY game has been an unpleasant experience. I never end up with a friendly opponent willing to take things easy - it's always the hyper-competitive crowd that either stomps you into the dust or yells at you for failing to meet their expectations. Consequently, multiplayer in general leaves a sour taste in my mouth. A few solo-friendly MMOs aside, I never waste my money on a game without singe player. It's going to brick in a few months anyway as the community moves on to the next hot release... and the few that remain are the aforementioned hyper-competitive pro circuit that looks down at newbies.
As for Vs CPU... AI is a jerk regardless. 
But yeah, I have a poor history with multiplayer. Forgive me if I stay out of those waters.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 11:23 AM |
|
|
Multiplayer doesn't mean a bunch of faceless nolifers who know every single trick and exploit. The fun in heroes is finding people with which you have an understanding and just want to play for the fun of it. When I joined toh I found a lot of good people I enjoyed playing with and still remember fondly. And the reason I joined was because just like you, my original heroes mates had gotten unavailable or no longer played heroes.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Kimarous
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 11:41 AM |
|
|
|
Yeah, but years of seemingly nothing but faceless nolifers has killed any interest I have with the concept. As in, I get uncomfortable even considering a non-hotseat multiplayer match. I've survived on my casual solo approach since H5's release - to try now like diving off the high board before even learning how to stay afloat.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 12:21 PM |
|
|
If you just create a game that anyone can join yes. Back in toh there was a meeting players thread where we exchanged msn so that you could exchange a couple of words, see and arrange who you're playing with. There should be a number of interested people in this very forum, some of which you probably already know. It's easier when your co-player has a face - or a familiar avatar
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 12:47 PM |
|
|
Yeah, you can just ask around here, we can be your mates^^
____________
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 12:52 PM |
|
|
Zeki said:
Yeah, you can just ask around here, we can be your mates^^
Until day 1, week 1, month 1, then the show goes on and you become bitter enemies  .
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 12:56 PM |
bonus applied by Brukernavn on 07 Jun 2016. |
|
I am fairly certain that the reasons for HoMM decline is the fact that the devs simply don't understand what made HoMM magical in the first place.
The newer games look like products of random game generator with a HoMM template put on. It's not HoMM when you mash some creatures, some castles, some resources and call it a day. It's not HoMM when you put a plethora of bland spells and artificts and act like you're done. HoMM is magic and adventure. If you can't put the magic and adventure in, it's no longer HoMM.
The map must feel ALIVE for HoMM to be HoMM. It needs dwellings, it needs places to boost your stats, it needs artifacts, and it needs those places where you fights stuff for goodies (such as dragon utopia). You need all of that in reasonable proportions and scaling difficulty, so that it's simply fun to EXPLORE the map. The pure joy of exploration was what captivated me in HoMM2 and HoMM3. It was always "hmm, wonder what's over there!" that kept me going and exploring. The sheer volume of artifacts and places to visit made me occupied for months. That's what I always missed regarding newer iterations: it felt bland. i had absolutely no motivation to explore, because it was mostly resource mines and bland treasure around.
Let's not even start on the magic. HoMM3 had poorly balanced magic, but that was part of its glory. Seeing that glorious icon of town portal in your magic guild... priceless! Let's face it, rare goodies in a RNG-related dice roll aren't good for game balance, but are so much better than a diceroll of pre-defined 2 spells per tier.... @_@ It was addictively fun to build magic guilds and check what kind of spells you got for the game. And if you were stuck with crappy spells, it was fun to explore the possiblities of those spells. It was so fun to experiment with quicksand and forcefield in HoMM3... even if it failed a lot of time.
And the maps! I still remember the amazing HoMM3 maps where you had to slay 300 ancient behemoths by the end of third month, on sacred ground which prevented all magic. Holy... it was just fantastic. And does anybody here remember the ULTIMA map? The XXL one? :3 HoMM3 had maps that felt like little stories of their own. They had a soul. They were pure ADVENTURE! and they could, by creating utter unfairness of course and stupid AI advantage, be quite challenging in single player.
HoMM6+ maps feel like boring templates for a "quickie", a 1-2h multiplayer session. They could as well be freakin' random map generator spawns. They simply lack SOMETHING SPECIAL. It never felt like a mini-story of its own. Where's the glorious "Back for revenge" map from HoMM3, with all its unfairness and glory? SIGH!
And multiplayer... well, I used to be an advocate of chess-like balanced gameplay, I even argued with some of our members here on the matter, but truth be told: I was wrong. HoMM doesn't work like that. It doesn't feel right! It feels like HoMM version of chess. It's bland, and so... predictable. It lacks the MAGIC.
In other words, if you're a true HoMM fan, your best bet is HoMM3 and its mods, and the fantastic maps that HoMM had. Up to this day, HoMM3 is amazing and fantastic. Wake of Gods brought too much gimmicks and weird gameplay options, but it did show a direction for the game to evolve, such as commands and the fantastic EXP system where creatures would get new abilities while gaining levels (even though it took forever and was, hurr durr, badly balanced ). It was just just more fun on top of even more fun. If proper maps existed for WoG and the creators didn't abandon the project... if only someone could apply slight balance tweaks for that game... it would be the ultimate HoMM experience, and all of the other games would be grossly unnecessary.
Sadly, it never happened, and now we're left with Heroes of Pawns and Rooks, or whatever you want to call the HoMM Chess-series.
I miss good old times, and not just because of nostalgia. I love homm2, but it wasn't that great in the long run. HoMM3 was something way better, way deeper... way more magical. It's not nostalgia. It's respect for that game's greatness.
____________
We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
|
|
Zeki
Supreme Hero
sup
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 02:01 PM |
|
|
Doomforge said:
I am fairly certain that the reasons for HoMM decline is the fact that the devs simply don't understand what made HoMM magical in the first place.
The newer games look like products of random game generator with a HoMM template put on. It's not HoMM when you mash some creatures, some castles, some resources and call it a day. It's not HoMM when you put a plethora of bland spells and artificts and act like you're done. HoMM is magic and adventure. If you can't put the magic and adventure in, it's no longer HoMM.
The map must feel ALIVE for HoMM to be HoMM. It needs dwellings, it needs places to boost your stats, it needs artifacts, and it needs those places where you fights stuff for goodies (such as dragon utopia). You need all of that in reasonable proportions and scaling difficulty, so that it's simply fun to EXPLORE the map. The pure joy of exploration was what captivated me in HoMM2 and HoMM3. It was always "hmm, wonder what's over there!" that kept me going and exploring. The sheer volume of artifacts and places to visit made me occupied for months. That's what I always missed regarding newer iterations: it felt bland. i had absolutely no motivation to explore, because it was mostly resource mines and bland treasure around.
Let's not even start on the magic. HoMM3 had poorly balanced magic, but that was part of its glory. Seeing that glorious icon of town portal in your magic guild... priceless! Let's face it, rare goodies in a RNG-related dice roll aren't good for game balance, but are so much better than a diceroll of pre-defined 2 spells per tier.... @_@ It was addictively fun to build magic guilds and check what kind of spells you got for the game. And if you were stuck with crappy spells, it was fun to explore the possiblities of those spells. It was so fun to experiment with quicksand and forcefield in HoMM3... even if it failed a lot of time.
And the maps! I still remember the amazing HoMM3 maps where you had to slay 300 ancient behemoths by the end of third month, on sacred ground which prevented all magic. Holy... it was just fantastic. And does anybody here remember the ULTIMA map? The XXL one? :3 HoMM3 had maps that felt like little stories of their own. They had a soul. They were pure ADVENTURE! and they could, by creating utter unfairness of course and stupid AI advantage, be quite challenging in single player.
I fully agree with this
|
|
EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 02:16 PM |
|
|
|
Pitlord
Known Hero
|
|
posted June 05, 2016 09:13 PM |
|
|
|
ubilimbic just should put homm out of its misery
|
| |
|
|
This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
