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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted August 16, 2015 11:07 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Would towns have extra troop slots?
No. Two extra troops' slots are only available during Tactics phase for heroes with a special ability whose name I can't recall right now.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted August 16, 2015 11:14 PM |
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I was asking about the hypothetical 4/4/3 unit system 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted August 17, 2015 12:40 AM |
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I don't exactly know how to put this, but working on heroes and their classes and specializations, is it possible either by modding or in a future expansion to keep only the 3 basic skills that refine the specific class (the racial and then the other two per class that are described in the web page) and then leave the rest of the pizza blank ad allow for skill slices to appear randomly, while another slice remains as sub-class specialization.
And to explain, can it be made so that each class can have a sub specialty, allowing the hero to gain another slice with specific perks and increase his specialization or enhance it or change it altogether? This is reminiscent of the heroes IV style but applied to the Heroes VII style.
On the other hand, there could be just 3 advanced classes for might heroes to choose from and 3 for magic heroes (by choose from, i mean whatever lack hands at you mind you, since you will have 6 more slots to fill.
This mind sound Far' fetched but i can only wonder if this is a possible way to get classes like Dark Knight, or Shadow Ranger, or Archmage and so on...
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted August 17, 2015 12:44 AM |
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kiryu133 said:
I was asking about the hypothetical 4/4/3 unit system
I do have hope that since we have the choice between Champions it will become at first a choice between the strong core and strong elite units in each faction. This will not allow you to have 2 more units, but choose which one out of two you want to build.
Although, i would prefer to be able to choose which 3 out of 4 possibilities i can choose, by having stronger core and stronger elite, the make the former option possible.
So, yeah, i do expect to see us able to choose between Dire Wolves or Griffins, Raksashas or Twarets, Golems or Dervish (?) and so on in a future time. Or at least i do hope that these choices will offer a way to make your army either more offensive or more defensive and not just provide the same type of creature with different stats
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted August 17, 2015 10:55 AM |
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I think a 4 tier system can be good. 2-2-2-2. Core, Elite, Champion-Legend unit types.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted August 17, 2015 11:14 AM |
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alcibiades said:
jhb said:
You are right, the growth rate would be important here. But I was guessing stacks would still have some difference in overall power, even considering the growth. I think it will be more different than it was in h6, at least. But it's just a guess, of course.
You are completely right that balance will be an incredibly delicate matter in this case. It is very likely that in most cases, the choice of 4 will reduce to a default pick of 3 that is taken every time - we saw that happen in H4, and we saw it in H5 with alternative upgrades, where many upgrades never got any play. Onle way to prevent that is through very distinct creature roles, and even then, player habit may still mean one set gets chosen every time. On the other hand, if this allows people to have "custom" line-ups that they favor, it may still be well worth it, even if one could then argue the gameplay impact is minor.
great point. 
It was good to remember h4 too. Agree with what you said above.
To clarify further what I was trying to say with the druid example and the 'filling the gaps' thing. If I remember right, sylvan heroes in h5 (ranger) had a certain alignment with destructive magic (good chances of finding destructive spells in their guild). But for sylvan rangers, strategies involving destructive spells were more limited, because of poor spell power(they had high def/high knowledge. Imbue arrow, imbue ballista, triple ballista was cool, but that was about all you had.
And then came tote and the alternative druid, thanks to the new channeling ability, dealing with destructive magic became a lot more interesting. Channeling would give spell power to your ranger based on stack size and limited by hero's knowledge, if stack dies the buff is removed.
Now invest in destructive magic, war machines, enlightenment and you can turn your ranger into an arcane archer. 
I was reading somewhere in the forums people talking about knights or haven heroes not being able to use dark spells, that they didn't like this restriction or something.
Maybe there is an opportunity right here, what about if the extra haven unit be designed to fill this gap in some way?
From a gameplay perspective, it could be a unit that would bring some dark spells/abilities to the table, so haven would have acess to dark magic via this new unit, it could include skill perks too.
twilight glory? corrupted glory? fallen sister? I bet more creative people could find a cool creature concept/lore.
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sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted August 17, 2015 12:19 PM |
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I think that Haven Heroes wielding Dark Magic will remain unique individuals like Ornella, meaning they'll be exclusive to campaigns.
"Fallen knights" of H5 are most probably unique individuals or are already expelled from Haven faction (like Medusa).
It's as with Chaos magic - it doesn't matter if you're from Haven, Fortress or Sylvan, if you use it, you become a Warlock.
Btw, for those who're interested: faction magic info (provided by Elvin).
I hope you'll notice the line "Theoretically, all the races / factions have access to all the schools but there are some "natural" affinities, related to the Dragon-Blood concept."
P.S.: but I'll admit, alternative line-up with more... "dark" creatures would be interesting. ^^ It was already done in Heroes Online, shame "void-consumed" Haven is not playable. 
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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keldaur
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 17, 2015 01:14 PM |
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I actually disliked the top creatures spammage or mixing creatures with others factions in your army. One of the very few things that i actually enjoyed from heroes 6, was town conversion. If i choose necropolis i want to be able to play with necropolis units only if i wish to.
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feidrota
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 17, 2015 01:30 PM |
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keldaur said:
I actually disliked the top creatures spammage or mixing creatures with others factions in your army. One of the very few things that i actually enjoyed from heroes 6, was town conversion. If i choose necropolis i want to be able to play with necropolis units only if i wish to.
I believe the town conversion was discussed in this thread. IMO (and probably not only mine) town conversion was not bad by itself, it was the poor way it was implemented in H6. You could convert a town by simply snapping fingers. The WoG team made the town conversion just right. And it was years before H6 came into existance.
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keldaur
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 17, 2015 02:04 PM |
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Problem wasn't how easy it was to convert, it was that the pool of recruitable creatures was shared amongst the towns. The first, is understandable due to how the game was balanced around playing the same creatures as its own faction for the most part, so on a multiplayer/skirmish game, getting a randomized neutral town that isn't your factions wouldn't skew balance towards the player who actually got a town that isn't his faction.
The second was surely aiming for accessibility. Removing a huge part of the micromanagement when you have a few towns and the creature nests (sry forgot their name on english).
My biggest complain about heroes VI to be honest is the distinctions made to the Attack stat (might or magic) rendering half of your units subpar, forcing you to one spec or another depending on your faction's strongest units on their line up.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 17, 2015 02:50 PM |
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@Keldaur actually the cheapness of town conversion was precisely why it was bad in h6 IMO. It was a no-brainer choice, only if you played really small map and were just about to go to final battle was there any sense in buying different faction troops. The conversion was too cheap, it was instant and it basically had no cons. I liked the idea of town conversion truly, but it just needed more development as previously discussed so it would have pros and cons.(Btw I'm with you on using single faction type army in general. It just breaks the immersion for me when you got devils in army of haven for example. I always try to make army of at least same alignment as it doesn't look so ridiculous.)
As for the creature pool, I'm not completely against it to be honest. I always hated caravaning troops to faraway location because creature week might in worst case make 7 day trip into 1 month trip through enemy lands because some small blockage got spawn in middle or it could stop caravan completely and force player to move extra army to clear 10 goblins away so my 50 black dragons from the caravan could move on!(It was simply extra micro-management that took time without adding anything to game-play IMO) If there was mechanic so the caravan could either move through or "defeat" the neutrals blocking if caravan is stronger I would be completely happy with caravans. I don't mind that enemy can attack caravan(the exact opposite actually), but it was always the neutrals that annoyed the crap out of me. For me creature pool was simply mediocre solution to the problem(and I got the feeling h6 didn't even have neutrals spawning on weeks, but maybe I remember wrong..?)
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Shiro
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 17, 2015 03:10 PM |
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@TD I totally forgot about the everyday unit growth in h6. Were there any information about unit growth in h7?
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 17, 2015 03:15 PM |
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Edited by TD at 15:19, 17 Aug 2015.
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Shiro said:
@TD I totally forgot about the everyday unit growth in h6. Were there any information about unit growth in h7?
H6 had weekly growth as I recall as does H7. Only H4 had everyday growth.
Edit: I meant by not having neutrals spawn on weeks that for example before if you had week of peasants(so double production) there would be small neutral stacks of peasants spawning around all around the map. H6 didn't have these I think.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 17, 2015 03:19 PM |
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*Daily growth
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 17, 2015 05:06 PM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 17:06, 17 Aug 2015.
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Dungeon Hall of Heroes
Again, specializations that are so bad that one could wish to have a genius to mod the game from the start.
As for portraits, all of them look good, besides Sinitar, who looks like he has a bad rash from allergies or something. And how unamusing to mention that he made dealings with the black dragons after getting defeated by Eruina. As if he didn't do that before, hence H5 biography.
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted August 17, 2015 05:08 PM |
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Darkstorm looks cool but he's cursed with a stupid spec 
Did you guys know he's a Minotaur!  so he MUST have the Minotaur spec! Doesn't matter if he's a magic hero. If they give it to another dark elf hero, people might not realize dark storm is a mintoaur! Ubi is always looking out for us
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted August 17, 2015 05:11 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Dungeon Hall of Heroes
Again, specializations that are so bad that one could wish to have a genius to mod the game from the start.
As for portraits, all of them look good, besides Sinitar, who looks like he has a bad rash from allergies or something. And how unamusing to mention that he made dealings with the black dragons after getting defeated by Eruina. As if he didn't do that before, hence H5 biography.
Well, technically, in H7 he strikes his first bargain and thus hasn't done it before. Likely, his bio in H5 refers to the same event as the one in H7. In H5 he has mastered this ability to empower spells etc, which is his specialization there. In H7, the event may still be 'fresh' and he hasn't discovered its potentials yet...
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted August 17, 2015 05:12 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 17:14, 17 Aug 2015.
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The_green_drag said:
Darkstorm looks cool but he's cursed with a stupid spec
At least it isn't as bad as Yeshtar's. Her ability is just... bad. There is no better word to describe it. This is in comparison with other specializations, which are not good to say at least.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted August 17, 2015 05:12 PM |
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Le sigh
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted August 17, 2015 05:14 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
The_green_drag said:
Darkstorm looks cool but he's cursed with a stupid spec
At least it isn't as bad as Yeshtar's. Her ability is just... bad. There is no better word to describe it.
Halt. It has always been written the creature growth is increased +X, never "by 1". Surprisingly enough, in beta it was written the creature growth is increased by +100%... hm.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
